New Tank Specs in 4.1

[LeBoucher]

Let's discuss Paladin tanking specs in 4.1
Here's the one I'm going with. Survivalist Tank Spec

The last 4 point's can be spent in:

• Pursuit of Justice
• Arbiter of the Light
• Judgments of the Pure

I would not suggest putting points into Hollowed Ground or Guarded by the Light, I would like some critique if my reasons are not sound.
Guarded by the Light: A shield is useless, since you should only be using WoG when you are at or below 30% health. Putting extra points in PoJ JotP or AotL is more beneficial. The only real downfall to this is the loss in healing and a HS proc. In my opinion, if you have to do a healers job, then your healer should reevaluate their position in a raid and so some studying. A WoG heal is good to keep you alive if you need it, and if you really need it, then pop Divine Plea to get a full WoG heal if you do not already have 3 HoPo. Otherwise, it's more beneficial to have a 30% chance to not consume HoPo from Eternal Glory in order to get an free SotR (or the other way around depending on how you see it).
Hollowed Ground: Most often, you're only going to use Conc on initial trash pulls. You can always make up for lost mana by switching to SoI briefly and getting 15% of that mana back after a successful judge. This talent is useless for survival specs. Having extra hate, crit, or speed from the listed talents is more important in my opinion.

That's all, let the bashing commence.

[Staunch]

I stopped reading after the part "Pop Divine Plea for a 3 holy power WoG"

[Cyclops]

Or give up on the self healing specs, roll the dps tanking spec instead, and pull 12k... until that gets nerfed

[MerinPally]

I stopped reading after the part "Pop Divine Plea for a 3 holy power WoG"

Does not understand why, assuming I've not missed the part when they said "we're stopping DP giving HP"? If its up and its a choice between life and death... is that a question? In my 10man raiding guild I don't have a threat issue so i save DP for a quick 40k+ heal on someone.

ON topic - I'll be rocking a http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sZGMhcRddkRucbG

Why? With the change to Grand Crusader, Holy Power will (hopefully and assumably) be coming out of orifices I didn't know I had. One point in GbtL because when I do use WOG, I don't want to risk Holy Shield falling off under any circumstances, seeing as my SHOTR has a bad habit of missing 5 times in a row (Fuck you Valiona). If I feel I can gain more holy power over a fight via speccing Eternal Glory, I'll drop a point in Reckoning or Seals of the Pure.

I'll let the number crunchers do their job and then obey like a good brainless peon, but until then, this seems the best for my playstyle in my sleep deprived state.

[Jabberie]

I would assume he stopped because DP halves your healing when active and you mentioned nothing about removing the buff. Could be wrong though.

[MerinPally]

Pretty much any prot paladin who's anyone, already has a CancelAura macro for DP for those situations where you need a "FML SAVE ME" button. It's so commonplace it's generally assumed - and that really is nitpicking if thats the only point he could find, let's be honest

[Zendik]

I stopped reading after the part "Pop Divine Plea for a 3 holy power WoG"

same here.

[Dazu]

I dont know about you but I will still be popping WoG every 20 seconds when its off CD. I cant see my spec changing much at all. You job as a tank is to stay alive and keep threat, threat is a null issue so the rest should be based around staying alive, which using WoG on CD either on yourself or a party member is very advisable. If Holy Shield drops of you really need to learn to use a 1 point SoTR to restart it.

Then again most paladins I see dont even use Holy Radiance which is a massive AoE threat move if used right, or a nice HoT buffer to groups as they take damage.

Hallowed ground can be useful, its actually very good damage but, I generally dont have mana problems using it quite regularly now.

[LeBoucher]

I stopped reading after the part "Pop Divine Plea for a 3 holy power WoG"

Troll

Or give up on the self healing specs, roll the dps tanking spec instead, and pull 12k... until that gets nerfed

I am using a threat build right now. My job is not to DPS, my job is to stay alive and keep my raid alive. So I'm trying to come up with a survival build that will have minimal use of WoG. However, it seems that prot is WoG centric in order of survivability. Either Blizzard is going to have to change some talents, or we'll just have to deal with it.

Does not understand why, assuming I've not missed the part when they said "we're stopping DP giving HP"? If its up and its a choice between life and death... is that a question? In my 10man raiding guild I don't have a threat issue so i save DP for a quick 40k+ heal on someone.

ON topic - I'll be rocking a http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sZGMhcRddkRucbG

Why? With the change to Grand Crusader, Holy Power will (hopefully and assumably) be coming out of orifices I didn't know I had. One point in GbtL because when I do use WOG, I don't want to risk Holy Shield falling off under any circumstances, seeing as my SHOTR has a bad habit of missing 5 times in a row (Fuck you Valiona). If I feel I can gain more holy power over a fight via speccing Eternal Glory, I'll drop a point in Reckoning or Seals of the Pure.

I'll let the number crunchers do their job and then obey like a good brainless peon, but until then, this seems the best for my playstyle in my sleep deprived state.

Thank you for explaining a few things for me, oh, and nice spec. Love it. I never thought of putting just one point into GbtL.

Pretty much any prot paladin who's anyone, already has a CancelAura macro for DP for those situations where you need a "FML SAVE ME" button. It's so commonplace it's generally assumed - and that really is nitpicking if thats the only point he could find, let's be honest

Thank you once again, I was just about to explain this to the influx of dumbasses in this thread.

I dont know about you but I will still be popping WoG every 20 seconds when its off CD. I cant see my spec changing much at all. You job as a tank is to stay alive and keep threat, threat is a null issue so the rest should be based around staying alive, which using WoG on CD either on yourself or a party member is very advisable. If Holy Shield drops of you really need to learn to use a 1 point SoTR to restart it.

Then again most paladins I see dont even use Holy Radiance which is a massive AoE threat move if used right, or a nice HoT buffer to groups as they take damage.

Hallowed ground can be useful, its actually very good damage but, I generally dont have mana problems using it quite regularly now.

In case you have not noticed, this isn't a prot PvP thread. What you're suggesting is that I pop WoG even when I don't need to? That's goofy, I'll use SotR over WoG if I'm good on health. And the only person in a raid I would ever pop WoG on is my healer if she/he is getting pwnd. Like the proverb says, "if the DPS die, it's their own damn fault".

I use HR a lot on large trash pulls or when an AoE phase begins.

No, Hollowed Ground is pretty much useless. If it lowered the CD of Conc, then I might consider picking it up, even in a threat build. Overall, there are much better talents you can spend 2 points in.

[kishodono]

I have to disagree that WoG shouldn't be spammed on cool down. WoG is a free 15-60k of damage reduction/healing depending on how much vengeance you have and if it crits. You use WoG 15 times in a single fight and it's possible to mitigate 500k damage to yourself. In a world where threat is trivialized, survivability/damage mitgation should be your primary focus. This is like saying you shouldn't use Divine Protection unless you actually need it, which is BS because keeping that up as much as possible mitigates much more damage in the long run then only popping it at spike damage points.

tl;dr - Any self healing you can do to yourself without gimping yourself should be done, especially when overhealing isn't an issue.

[Dazu]

I dont PvP, I am entirely talking about PvE tanking. Holy radiance and WoG on CD can reduce required healing alot.

WoG: considering there is no threat issues really no need to try and increase dps/threat. Better off continuing to WoG, HR and Div Prot on CD for mitigation value. If you are sitting above 80% HP than your healer can return to efficient heals and conserve/gain mana.

My general way for holy radiance is to pop avenging wrath + Divine Guardian + Divine Protection + Holy Radiance together during heavy AoE times. Larger healing, damage reduction on entire group etc. Otherwise basically on CD, its a free 10k as a HoT per minute.

Im in 2 minds on Hallowed Ground, it does quite decent single target damage still and has decent uptime as prot (60% or so UT). The question is, the mana cost reduction worth it overall or can you still afford it often during combat.

[Reith]

I stopped reading after the part "Pop Divine Plea for a 3 holy power WoG"

Yes, because a cancelaura macro is sooooo hard to make!

#showtooltip Divine Plea
/cast Divine Plea
/cancelaura Divine Plea

Oh my god that was so hard! >_> <_< *runs*

[patrins]

I stopped reading after the part "Pop Divine Plea for a 3 holy power WoG"

bad player is bad

[Maester]

Well I'm pretty sure that for the players using the self healing build at the moment, they might have to make a change (although I don't see why), or they could just use WoG every 20 seconds and let the healer's do their jobs.

I'm not using the self healing build and I'm pretty sure I won't have to change it for 4.1.

Of course, this is only as of now. We'll see what other changes they implement throughout the testing process, but as of right now I don't think changes need to be made.

[Deleted]

It would be more logical to keep points in GBTL and take them out of seals of the pure if you are talking about a survival orientated build

[Raphtheone]

http://wowtal.com/#k=-e40M656K.a8t.paladin.

I can't find the link to the math, but iirc SotP is a rather crap TPS talent. If you for some reason have to WoG, having the HP reimbursed allows for a ShotR, so in effect it'll be a 100% threat stat in 4.1. Question is, if it'll be better than SotP. If not, I'll switch the 2 points from EG to SotP. I see no point whatsoever to have 2p in both SotP and EG, since those points should go into RoL, one of our very best TPS/DPS talents.

1 point in GbtL should be mandatory. If you need to spend your HP on a WoG, you won't risk loosing the HS buff.

I use consecration everytime I have a global to spare, but even then, I don't think having points in it is better than any alternative (RoL).

[Kraven Moorehead]

Your taking Eternal Glory so WoG has a chance of not using HP, but your not going to take Guarded by the Light so your WoG can refresh your Holy Shield that should be up 100% of the time?

Eye for an Eye VS Improved Judgement.
I prefer Eye because everything I'm tanking is within melee range most the time. But still debatable.

Pursuit of Justice.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL I'd rather take Lavawalker and have a useful talent point.

[Deleted]

Pursuit of Justice.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL I'd rather take Lavawalker and have a useful talent point.

You want 50 mastery on your boots and you can easily sacrifice points in a number of areas that won't effect survival. Thankyou for your well thought out arguement in favour of using an unnecessary enchant for Paladin tanks.

[Kraven Moorehead]

You want 50 mastery on your boots and you can easily sacrifice points in a number of areas that won't effect survival. Thankyou for your well thought out arguement in favour of using an unnecessary enchant for Paladin tanks.

I actually calculate my gear and stats out. I'm near block cap and I know which 2 pieces I need to replace and those bosses are on farm so I'll just wait.
I'd rather pump out more threat by taking something else because not having hit/exp cap isnt awesome. Walking a bit faster on fights that you're standing still for most the time is fairly useless, and then even the faster walk speed isn't that helpful.

[Staunch]

So the whole idea of popping Divine plea for a fast WoG, then /cancelaura the 50% reduction is fine. HOWEVER I only pointed this out, because OP (as you can see above) really doesn't grasp the whole idea here. He already tried to tag a valid point to be Prot PVP. That says more about OP than the guy believing a speed boost as a tank without any gap closers isn't needed.

"I rather pump out more threat". We're in the 1st tier of raiding in an expansion. If you went for full on threat stats for progress bosses, you've missed something big. I really wouldn't want you to tank anything with me. You might be near block cap. But GL picking up adds on Nef when you're running without any movement increasing effects.