1. #2361
    Quote Originally Posted by Badpaladin View Post
    1) Sorry, but Farve isn't close to best at his position. Aaron Rodgers is as good as he is now because The Packers are smart and don't rush quarterbacks to perform from day one. They have one of the best-run systems in the NFL, and proper QB-grooming is one of the clearer ones.

    2) Wrong. Brees was percieved as having mediocre arm strength and was seen as a system QB. He took most of his snaps from the shotgun and played in a spread offense, which was looked down upon greatly because it wasn't a pro system. Looking at some draft pick analyses from 2001, the measurables are almost identical between Brees and Moore. Incredible accuracy, poise and quickness in the pocket, exceptional field-reading ability, confidence in passes, too short and not a strong enough arm to make big passes. The only difference is that Brees was a very mobile quarterback outside of the pocket whereas Moore isn't. And I dunno about you, but I didn't see Brees' speed outside of the pocket as the reason for his success.

    3) Have you even seen him play?

    I fail to see how this is a serious level of fanboyism. Have I not made it clear that I know it can go either way? I suppose we could change the definition of fanboy if you'd like.
    1) The record books would like to have a word with you. Also, since when is GB a bastion of great QB play? I mean I heard Mike McCarthy was a QB genius, I mean look at all his success stories: Rich Gannon (Didn't go anywhere until Gruden got his paws on him), Elvis grbac (Career QB rating 79), Aaron Brooks (Career QB rating 78), and Alex Smith....wow, that's a QB guru. I don't get this idea that GB "knows" how to develop a QB based off of Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers didn't start as a rookie because the packers had Brett effing Favre.

    2)Similar measurables to Brees? What? They're not even close. Brees had more mobility, way more, which was part of the reason he was considered a 1st round prospect since the best way to get around a short QB is to move the pocket - something Moore isn't capable of. Moore was considered 6th round AT BEST, because he's too short, too thin, too slow, and has a below average arm.


    3) Sure, I watched Flynn ably hold JaMarcus Russel's jock at LSU for 3 years, look like just another guy for 1 year, then light it up using the best recieving corps in the NFL against 4th stringers and Detroit. I'm real impressed.

  2. #2362
    Quote Originally Posted by Kikistos View Post
    1) The record books would like to have a word with you.
    Slightly hijacking the discussion here, but Joe Montana was better than Favre.

    I'm sorry paladin, I just don't know what you see in Kellen Moore. I think Kikistos up there is way too far in the other direction. I don't think the kid's a scrub, but he's not starter either. Not now. Certainly not for the Lions unless Stafford's shoulder falls apart again. As a Florida Gator, it pains me to give any sort of credit to a former Bulldog, but Stafford is the real deal. Given time, he could develop for sure. If he's starting for Detroit next year things have gone horribly awry.

  3. #2363
    Herald of the Titans Vetali's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Washington, Land of Rain
    Posts
    2,704
    Quote Originally Posted by Kikistos View Post
    WOW what? You have a serious level of fanboyism going on here. let me set you straight.

    1) Matt Flynn: Aaron Rodgers was a 1st round pick that got his grooming from sitting behind the best to ever play the position. Matt Flynn was a borderline NFL prospect that was drafted in the 7th round for his intangibles and ended up getting paid based off of his work with the best skill position talent in the NFL, don't be surprised if Flynn can't wrest the job away from Tarvaris Jackson, who is just this side of terrible.
    This kinda made me giggle.

    GB Drafted Matt Hasslebeck in the 6th round while having Brett Farve. GB drafted Flynn when they had Rodgers being raised up behind Farve in the 7th round. They also drafted Brian Brohm 2nd round which Flynn beat out. If draft positions really determined the caliber of quaterbacks Brady wouldn't of been picked 6th round.

    Is he a franchise caliber QB? Well shit let me ask my magic 8 ball. Its wise of Seattle to make them fight for the spot considering Flynn is pretty questionable. Who knows how he works under pressure, who knows how he works with an average receiving core. Thats why any speculation of his skill is kinda meaningless until at least preseason.

    For as much as I wtf'd over Seattles draft pick of a QB, it kinda makes sense now. What if Flynn isn't good? Then we are back at square one. Thats why it was wise to bulk up the d side of the team just in case we have to play the hell out of the run game again.

  4. #2364
    Fluffy Kitten Badpaladin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    ccaarrrrllllll
    Posts
    11,090
    Quote Originally Posted by Kikistos View Post
    1) The record books would like to have a word with you. Also, since when is GB a bastion of great QB play? I mean I heard Mike McCarthy was a QB genius, I mean look at all his success stories: Rich Gannon (Didn't go anywhere until Gruden got his paws on him), Elvis grbac (Career QB rating 79), Aaron Brooks (Career QB rating 78), and Alex Smith....wow, that's a QB guru. I don't get this idea that GB "knows" how to develop a QB based off of Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers didn't start as a rookie because the packers had Brett effing Favre.
    You're certainly entitled to that opinion.

    2)Similar measurables to Brees? What? They're not even close. Brees had more mobility, way more, which was part of the reason he was considered a 1st round prospect since the best way to get around a short QB is to move the pocket - something Moore isn't capable of. Moore was considered 6th round AT BEST, because he's too short, too thin, too slow, and has a below average arm.
    Have you read the draft analyses on Drew Brees? I know, it's a little ridiculous reading things like "he's just a system quarterback" after seeing what he has produced.

    3) Sure, I watched Flynn ably hold JaMarcus Russel's jock at LSU for 3 years, look like just another guy for 1 year, then light it up using the best recieving corps in the NFL against 4th stringers and Detroit. I'm real impressed.
    I was referring to Moore, not Flynn. I'm personally not sold on Flynn, at least not entirely. He's had time to adjust to the professional level, and he's had the pleasure of working in a great organization with a great quarterback. The NFC West isn't exactly the toughest division either, so he could produce.
    Last edited by Badpaladin; 2012-04-30 at 03:54 AM.
    My Short Required Reading List: One. Two. || Last.fm

  5. #2365
    Quote Originally Posted by buck008 View Post
    Slightly hijacking the discussion here, but Joe Montana was better than Favre.

    I'm sorry paladin, I just don't know what you see in Kellen Moore. I think Kikistos up there is way too far in the other direction. I don't think the kid's a scrub, but he's not starter either. Not now. Certainly not for the Lions unless Stafford's shoulder falls apart again. As a Florida Gator, it pains me to give any sort of credit to a former Bulldog, but Stafford is the real deal. Given time, he could develop for sure. If he's starting for Detroit next year things have gone horribly awry.
    Montana Vs Favre is arguable, Favre has all the records on his side versus Montana's Super Bowls. I also never said Moore is a scrub, I said I thought he'd have a place as a 3rd QB/ QB coach, ala Jason Garret during his playing days. But I don't see him creating a QB controversy anywhere like Badpaladin does.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vetali View Post
    This kinda made me giggle.

    GB Drafted Matt Hasslebeck in the 6th round while having Brett Farve. GB drafted Flynn when they had Rodgers being raised up behind Farve in the 7th round. They also drafted Brian Brohm 2nd round which Flynn beat out. If draft positions really determined the caliber of quaterbacks Brady wouldn't of been picked 6th round.

    Is he a franchise caliber QB? Well shit let me ask my magic 8 ball. Its wise of Seattle to make them fight for the spot considering Flynn is pretty questionable. Who knows how he works under pressure, who knows how he works with an average receiving core. Thats why any speculation of his skill is kinda meaningless until at least preseason.

    For as much as I wtf'd over Seattles draft pick of a QB, it kinda makes sense now. What if Flynn isn't good? Then we are back at square one. Thats why it was wise to bulk up the d side of the team just in case we have to play the hell out of the run game again.
    All correct, and to my point. (With the exception that Flynn was never on the roster with Favre.) However the illusion to Brady is a bit dated...with a handful of exceptions in the NFL currently, all the starters were picked within the first 3 rounds. The exceptions? Ryan Fitzpatrick (UFA), Matt Cassel (7th), Matt Moore (UFA), Tony Romo (UFA) and Tom Brady (6th). Their are reasons for those guys going unnoticed. Fitzpatrick played at Harvard (LOL), Cassel didn't play at all, Matt Moore and Brady weren't that good in college (2 years as starters, 1 bad year one good year...altho Brady's bad year was light years better than Moore's bad year.) and Romo went to a 1-AA school, which matches more to the modern out of nowhere QB, like Jake Delhomme and Kurt Warner. Moore just doesn't fit the stereotype, he was a 4 year starter, lots of national attention, 4 good years...his problem is that the scouts have seen TOO MUCH of him, whereas those other guys fell because the scouts just hadn't seen enough to draft them high. (Mind you, most of these guys were before the Youtube age. You can kind of see that such a thing is long gone when a guy like Joe Flacco is a 1st round pick.)


    Quote Originally Posted by Badpaladin View Post
    Have you read the draft analyses on Drew Brees? I know, it's a little ridiculous reading things like "he's just a system quarterback" after seeing what he has produced.
    Yes, I remember reading it back before he was drafted, and his arm strength was never questioned like Moore's has been. Don't get me wrong, I like Kellen Moore, he's a good, smart kid...but again, he's too short, too thin, too slow and his arm just isn't NFL caliber. Like I said, he's a poor man's Chad Pennington.
    Last edited by Kikistos; 2012-04-30 at 04:28 AM. Reason: More stuffs.

  6. #2366
    The Lightbringer draynay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    California
    Posts
    3,313
    Quote Originally Posted by Badpaladin View Post
    2) Wrong. Brees was percieved as having mediocre arm strength and was seen as a system QB. He took most of his snaps from the shotgun and played in a spread offense, which was looked down upon greatly because it wasn't a pro system.
    which was enough to drop him out of the first round, as opposed to out of the draft entirely

    edit - I don't have to go back and look at scouting reports and pre-draft evaluations when I lived in San Diego 11 years ago and was quite familiar with them at the time, do you think any of us were disappointed to get him? we were ecstatic, we got the best runner, and the best passer in the draft, and didn't have to worry about spending a ton of money on one guy just because he could do both, I was pleased as punch
    Last edited by draynay; 2012-04-30 at 04:44 AM.

  7. #2367
    theres no chance in hell Detroit can have a QB controversy. Stafford is lights out when he is healthy. the guy just threw for 5000 yards. if you have aspirations of starting due to performance you dont go to Detroit. Minnesota maybe, not Detroit.

  8. #2368
    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjabb View Post
    theres no chance in hell Detroit can have a QB controversy. Stafford is lights out when he is healthy. the guy just threw for 5000 yards. if you have aspirations of starting due to performance you dont go to Detroit. Minnesota maybe, not Detroit.
    Stafford's a good QB, but Megatron makes many of his bad passes catchable. Give any franchise QB Calvin Johnson and see what their yardarge becomes. Not saying Stafford sucks mind you, just don't overhype the 5k yards stat like Drew Brees... Lions throw more than the Saints, and Megatron is just a fucking beast.

    "It may be your $14.99, but it's the raid's $374.75" -- Ralask <Nether>, Senjin.
    Mage Moderator | Forum Guidelines | MMO IRC | Arcane Mage FAQ | TT7 R.I.P.

  9. #2369
    Dreadlord
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    904
    Gotta love John Harbaugh today. Got on the radio and said the patriots should have an asterisk next to all their super bowl championships. I get where hes coming from, but this is coming from the coach of a team who cant close the deal on getting to the big game. Namely against the said team he said should have an asterisk. Every year its "all in" for the Baltimore Ravens, and thus far, the only rewards in the last 2 years has been 1 division title, and two great big letdowns in the playoffs. Next he'll complain some bigger market team paid off all the refs in their inexcusable losses. Stick to coaching Harbaugh.
    Quote Originally Posted by ccsabathia View Post
    heat ≠ light
    it...i....what?

    The worst thing you can do is entertain the idea of what if...

  10. #2370
    Quote Originally Posted by Logonov View Post
    Gotta love John Harbaugh today. Got on the radio and said the patriots should have an asterisk next to all their super bowl championships. I get where hes coming from, but this is coming from the coach of a team who cant close the deal on getting to the big game. Namely against the said team he said should have an asterisk. Every year its "all in" for the Baltimore Ravens, and thus far, the only rewards in the last 2 years has been 1 division title, and two great big letdowns in the playoffs. Next he'll complain some bigger market team paid off all the refs in their inexcusable losses. Stick to coaching Harbaugh.
    "Cundiff takes the snap, ball down and ... it's wide left! It's wide left! Patriots win!"

    That's why he said that.

  11. #2371
    Mechagnome Elbren's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Maryland (US)
    Posts
    502
    NFL.com Link

    Saints' player suspensions were finally handed out.

    LB Jonathan Vilma - entire season
    DL Anthony Hargrove - 8 games (now w/ the Packers)
    DE Will Smith - 4 games
    LB Scott Fujita - 3 games

    Players have 3 days to appeal.
    Elbren (Paladin) - Priam (Warlock) - Pompeymagnus (Hunter) - Rahab (Shaman) - Ithillian (Druid) - Licinius (Mage) - Romulus (Warrior)

  12. #2372
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Jonesville, Michigan
    Posts
    10,443
    Surprised it was only four guys but they went right for the leaders rather than all the guys. That Vilma suspension is brutal. Can't imagine a player's union appeal will be coming since they must have been involved in approving this like they were in the investigation.

    I hope Vilma hasn't been one of those idiot pro athletes that throw their money away as fast as they can make it and actually saved it for retirement now that he is going to go a year without pay.

  13. #2373
    The Lightbringer draynay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    California
    Posts
    3,313
    well it sounds like he squandered at least $10k of it

    I had a bad feeling when we'd gone a couple of days without any Saints news, knew this was coming

  14. #2374
    Dreadlord
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    904
    I wonder if Vilma's punishment was increased as a result of NO restructuring his contract
    Quote Originally Posted by ccsabathia View Post
    heat ≠ light
    it...i....what?

    The worst thing you can do is entertain the idea of what if...

  15. #2375
    RIP Junior Seau wow

    Source

    www.tmz.com


  16. #2376
    Mechagnome Elbren's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Maryland (US)
    Posts
    502
    Just heard in the radio. Junior Seau found dead from a gunshot wound in his home.
    Elbren (Paladin) - Priam (Warlock) - Pompeymagnus (Hunter) - Rahab (Shaman) - Ithillian (Druid) - Licinius (Mage) - Romulus (Warrior)

  17. #2377
    Quote Originally Posted by Logonov View Post
    Gotta love John Harbaugh today. Got on the radio and said the patriots should have an asterisk next to all their super bowl championships. I get where hes coming from, but this is coming from the coach of a team who cant close the deal on getting to the big game. Namely against the said team he said should have an asterisk. Every year its "all in" for the Baltimore Ravens, and thus far, the only rewards in the last 2 years has been 1 division title, and two great big letdowns in the playoffs. Next he'll complain some bigger market team paid off all the refs in their inexcusable losses. Stick to coaching Harbaugh.
    If you read the transcript of the video, he pretty explicitly said that it was public perception whether it was true or not. Basically the public decided Belichik was guilty regardless, so, to him, it wouldn't be worth trying to do a similar thing. Really just another case of the media making more of a comment then was there.

    Such a shame about Junior Seau. He always seemed like a class act, though I suppose his recent problems should reflect his current troubled life. If this does turn out be yet another concussion related incident, the NFL is going to have some real problems on it's hands. And rightfully so.

  18. #2378
    Dreadlord
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    904
    Big concern in my mind about seau comes from an article released by SI a couple months ago about the i think 86-87 bengals (could be wrong about the year), discussing the matter of significant long term effects of playing the game. On top of the player safety issue that has really come to the forefront. You wonder how much Seau's mind might have been impacted by the game. That said, i truly hope Seau never regretted, for a minute, playing the NFL. His play was inspiring and unmatched. May he rest in peace, and let his image be put into the HoF some day for his time on the field.
    Quote Originally Posted by ccsabathia View Post
    heat ≠ light
    it...i....what?

    The worst thing you can do is entertain the idea of what if...

  19. #2379
    That's 9 players dead from the 94 Chargers SB team, all at a conciderable young age. Makes you wonder what really happens to these guy's heads during and after playing the game.

  20. #2380
    Quote Originally Posted by Elbren View Post
    LB Scott Fujita - 3 games
    Good, since the Browns need all the help they can get. I'd like to see them do better than 4/12 next season. Being without one of their only decent LBs... well, it certainly couldn't make their rush defense worse, or result in fewer sacks.

    Regardless, I think it would have been more appropriate to alter the punishment for the players who are now on other teams. Make it X number of games without pay. Otherwise, you're also penalizing a team that had nothing to do with the bounty.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •