1. #4081
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buck008 View Post
    conscript, if the Lions do tank, do they go RB?
    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. RBs are incredibly replaceable and draft talent is completely similar in the first and seventh round. Plus I'm not convinced LeShoure isn't the long term solution there.

    Lets say the Lions end up with the fourth pick (I think they are at 4-5 right now). If there is a game changing LT on the board take him. If there is a game changing CB on the board take him. If not, trade back. Burning that pick on a RB is phenomenally stupid, as Cleveland will find out soon enough. The Lions O-line hasn't been able to run block in over a decade since Barry retired. Our secondary is abysmal. If we can address those issues through an early draft pick, we need to do it. If not, trade back and find talent later.

    I am hesitant to say this, but I don't think they are underachieving that much. Honestly, I think they overachieved last year. Megatron put up a historic season last year. There was no way that was going to repeat although I don't think anyone thought it would be this bad. The Lions faced god knows how many fourth quarter deficits last year they managed to throw their way out of thanks to Megatron. That ability hasn't been there this year because our other passing options have vanished. Pettigrew can't catch. Young has completely vanished. Burleson was nothing to write home about before his injury. Broyles hasn't been on the field enough. The passing game sucks, our line can't run block, so the offense is floundering. Our defense is built just like the Manning Colts. Get a lead, let the D-line go nuts after the QB. The offense can't build a lead which has neutered the defense quite a bit.

    And I haven't even mentioned the Lions discipline problem yet. They are 6th in the league in penalties this year after being 2nd last year just behind the Raiders. They can't stop themselves from making stupid decisions on the field. The Lions need some sort of leadership on the sidelines that Schwartz clearly hasn't been able to give. I don't want to call for a coaching change, but the Lions need to find some way to change this culture of responsibility lapses both on and off the field.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-23 at 01:04 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozled View Post
    There's been talk on some of the Lions' boards of if they're in a position to draft Geno Smith, would they pull the trigger or not. So I'll ask you the same thing -- if the Lions have Smith sitting on the board for wherever they're drafting, would you combine Smith and Megatron? Or is Stafford not the problem to you.
    I like Geno Smith, a lot. I think he has the potential to be a great QB in the NFL. I am not at all willing to write off Stafford yet though. We are talking about a guy who threw for the 4th or 5th most yards in NFL HISTORY last year. Stafford's numbers have been bad this year and at times he has looked downright awful (the entire Rams game where he was just flat out missing reads comes to mind). I honestly think it is a combination of factors though. The line has been mediocre. The running game goes invisible for multiple games in a row. A couple of guys who were productive in the passing game for the Lions last year have vanished. Stafford hasn't been great but there are bigger issues with the Lions. I'll hit on those shortly as I am about to switch computers. Incoming long reply.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-23 at 01:26 PM ----------

    Alright at my other work computer now (which has a super loud keyboard so this is going to annoy the hell out of me).

    I think one of the biggest issues facing the Lions (along with their lack of discipline) is their inability to draft. Take the past four drafts.
    2009- Stafford, Pettigrew, Delmas, Levy. Four solid picks in the first three rounds. The other picks were busts as you can usually expect until you get to Zach Follett who was a hell of a special teams player until his neck injury ended his career.
    2010- Suh and Willie Young in the 7th. Every other pick including Best in the 1st has been a total bust.
    2011-Fairley, Young, LeShoure. LeShoure is an unknown. Fairley looks lazy most of the time. Young has vanished. I don't even think they had any late round picks.
    2012-Reiff, Broyles, About 13 LBs and CBs who are all misses. Reiff hasn't produced yet. Broyles I am very confident in.

    The Lions have largely struck out in the draft. They have had the fortune (misfortune?) to have some incredibly high picks in the last four years. A couple of those have worked out (Stafford, Suh for his rookie year then in flashes since, Delmas when healthy) but most haven't panned out at all and don't look like they are developing into what we want. Outside of Willie Young, they have done a fantastically terrible job of drafting players past the third round. I think those drafting issues are coming home to roost. The Lions are saddled with large contracts making them unable to participate in free agency when good corners are on the board (like Cortland Finnegan who almost singlehandedly beat the Lions in week 1). The Lions have had to draft talent to fill those voids and they have swung and missed on player after player. The secondary is as bad as it was when they drafter Delmas in 2009. The LB core is nothing to write home about. The D-Line can't produce like it was built to because we can't get a lead on offense.

    The Lions need to address a whole bunch of personnel issues on the field and a whole bunch of discipline issues on and off the field before this team will be a legit Super Bowl contender. It isn't something Geno Smith can fix. It isn't something a single OT can fix. It isn't something a single CB can fix unless you stumble on the next Revis in the draft. The best teams in the NFL have a pedigree of drafting and developing guys from every round of the draft, not just the top rounds. Perfect Detroit foil is the Red Wings. The Red Wings best players are guys they found in the 6th and 7th rounds. Anyone can draft at #1 and #2 and have a good chance of having success. It takes a real talent to draft in later rounds and the Lions haven't shown the ability to find mid-low round talent over the last decade plus.

  2. #4082
    All those penalties, lapses in judgement, instances of poor communication, and the general attitude of the team... that stuff all comes from the top. The coach just isn't handling those things. That's why I really don't think the Lions are this bad. They have talent. They might even be able to salvage the running game if they get a decent line. So a team that is ostensibly an o-lineman and a CB away from contending shouldn't be last in it's division.

    That being said, you don't need a great running game to win in the NFL anymore, but what the Bears did last night was embarrassing, or should have been for Detroit. They played both safeties deep the entire night. It never even entered Chicago's mind that they might be needed for run support. That's the kind of thing that makes teams draft a running back high. It might be a mistake, but I couldn't particularly blame them for it.

  3. #4083
    The Lightbringer Vetali's Avatar
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    NFL.com was extremely generous with Seattles power rankings. More than I am.

    Its kinda weird to look at organizations that have clear upper management issues. Something I haven't had to worry about for a few years now. John Schneider is probably one of the top 5 GMs in the league. The drafting that this team does really makes me raise an eyebrow at the time, but when you see these young players actually play its insane.

  4. #4084
    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    I think one of the biggest issues facing the Lions (along with their lack of discipline) is their inability to draft..

    - info here -
    I think you're spot on for a lot of teams here that are struggling, including the Lions. If you look at the teams who have had high(er) picks in recent drafts, those are the teams that are at least starting to turn the corner and produce. Teams like Houston, San Francisco, Redskins and even the Vikings are younger teams that have hit on most of their picks in the draft and it's starting to pay dividence. The Lions do have a plethora of issues, but the I'd say the inconsistency of Stafford might be the biggest one. Granted, there's really not a number 2 target outside of Johnson which makes him stare down receivers and be predictable, but he's still a 5000 yard passer. Somethings gotta give in Detroit.

  5. #4085
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    Speaking as a fan of the 49'ers, it is easy to understand where it seems hard to blame players for some of the mistakes that are occurring. As people have said, Schwartz and co. haven't been able to reduce penalties on the team, and lacking discipline can seriously bone the whole squad.

    I am friends with a guy at work who is a die hard Lions fan, and he has been ranting about needing an offensive line for a couple of years now. The day after the draft when they picked up Rieff, he actually grabbed me in a bear hug and said "FINALLY! Now I hope he pans out like your guys have." The games can be own in the trenches quite often, look at the 9'ers O-line, they have been paving runs for Gore like there is no tomorrow, but when they start going against a disruptive force IE: The NY Giants D-line, it starts to slow down, the Lions have the D-line, they need to start building the O-line now.
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  6. #4086
    MJD has a sprained foot, according to ESPN.

    Means he is out at least 3 weeks, but does not need surgery. Meanwhile Blaine Gabbert is having MRI's on his shoulder. Jags should be better than they are but that still hurts.

    And MJD got me a loss this week in FFL and I'm third on the waiver wire and have to hope I get Jennings.

  7. #4087
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    MJD has a sprained foot, according to ESPN.

    Means he is out at least 3 weeks, but does not need surgery. Meanwhile Blaine Gabbert is having MRI's on his shoulder. Jags should be better than they are but that still hurts.

    And MJD got me a loss this week in FFL and I'm third on the waiver wire and have to hope I get Jennings.
    I was overjoyed to hear it was a L-F injury. I lucked out and managed to get Jennings without somebody vulturing him in the MMO-C league. Hopefully he looks as good as he did earlier in the year because relying on LeShoure scares me badly.

  8. #4088
    The Lightbringer Vetali's Avatar
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    Richard Sherman changed his twitter name to Optimus Prime.

    Guess we know whos covering Megatron next Sunday.

  9. #4089
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
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    Completely baffled that name was available on Twitter. Must have paid someone to give it up lol. Also, when the Lions do eventually find another WR to compliment Megatron, can we call him Starscream even though Starscream was a totally treacherous douche?

  10. #4090
    I am Murloc! Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    Completely baffled that name was available on Twitter. Must have paid someone to give it up lol. Also, when the Lions do eventually find another WR to compliment Megatron, can we call him Starscream even though Starscream was a totally treacherous douche?
    He just changed his name in the personal settings. Pretty simple to do.

    You can tell WoW changed the MMO for good when players started complaining about the amount of time they sink, into a time sink.

  11. #4091
    The Lightbringer draynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    Especially considering both guys are injury prone, neither has ever produced consistently, the position is laughably replaceable through the draft and their QB carries a hefty chunk of their rushing game.
    and I forgot about him going out and signing Tolbert too, pretty cool...


    the Lions have to be smarter than to go RB in the first, its just not a good investment anymore, have a look at recent 1st round RBs Trent Richardson hasn't done anything yet, Ryan Mathews is good, but he's had injuries and wasn't any more effective than the UFA FB he was splitting carries with his first two years. Ingram and Best haven't done much and Spiller was a bust who is just starting to show a little ability. Beanie Wells, Donald Brown, Knowshon Moreno, mediocrity and injury. 2008 is all injury prone guys (except CJ1K) and none of them have had enough consistency. You have to go back to the 2007 draft with Peterson and Lynch before you find 1st rounders that are doing anything in the league. 2005 and 06 were dud years too, it just isn't working out.

  12. #4092
    I am Murloc! Irony's Avatar
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    Spiller a bust...? I understand absolutely no one pays attention to the Bills, but we've had Fred Jackson(Who is pretty damn good.) as our starter, thus Spiller got limited playing time after a mediocre first season. This season and 5 games last season he's showed tremendous talent and one of only two consistencies on our offense. He isn't anywhere close to a bust, he was just drafted by a retarded GM.

    He's currently averaging 7.3 yards per carry this season, those aren't bust numbers. He'd also be first in yards had he not been injured and probably top 3 in TDs if Chan Gailey wasn't butt fuck retarded.
    Last edited by Irony; 2012-10-25 at 06:38 AM.

    You can tell WoW changed the MMO for good when players started complaining about the amount of time they sink, into a time sink.

  13. #4093
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irony View Post
    if Chan Gailey wasn't butt fuck retarded.
    I didn't mention this earlier in the week, but what the fuck was Gailey doing last week? For the second week in a row the Bills are running fantastically trying to kill clock and he calls up a deep pass that is picked. He made the incredibly stupid call at the end of the third to go for the extra point and make it a six point game instead of going for the two and making it seven, and look what happens they lost by 1. The win probability between holding that 5 point lead (if you miss the two point conversion) and 6 point lead are almost identical and far, far worse than if you were up by 7. This is two weeks in a row and at least the third this season that a Bills game was directly influenced by absolutely indefensible coaching decisions that show a completely lack of understanding of the game situation. I don't know who is worse Gailey or Pat Shurmur in Cleveland, but neither of those guys should ever be in a position to make one of those calls as a head coach on any football team ever again.

  14. #4094
    Quote Originally Posted by Irony View Post
    Spiller a bust...? I understand absolutely no one pays attention to the Bills, but we've had Fred Jackson(Who is pretty damn good.) as our starter, thus Spiller got limited playing time after a mediocre first season. This season and 5 games last season he's showed tremendous talent and one of only two consistencies on our offense. He isn't anywhere close to a bust, he was just drafted by a retarded GM.

    He's currently averaging 7.3 yards per carry this season, those aren't bust numbers. He'd also be first in yards had he not been injured and probably top 3 in TDs if Chan Gailey wasn't butt fuck retarded.
    I watched the game this past weekend and I had to laugh as the Bills blew it. They sure have knack of throwing games away. However, I had a bigger laugh at the ending of the Pats-Jets game.

  15. #4095
    I am Murloc! Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    I didn't mention this earlier in the week, but what the fuck was Gailey doing last week? For the second week in a row the Bills are running fantastically trying to kill clock and he calls up a deep pass that is picked. He made the incredibly stupid call at the end of the third to go for the extra point and make it a six point game instead of going for the two and making it seven, and look what happens they lost by 1. The win probability between holding that 5 point lead (if you miss the two point conversion) and 6 point lead are almost identical and far, far worse than if you were up by 7. This is two weeks in a row and at least the third this season that a Bills game was directly influenced by absolutely indefensible coaching decisions that show a completely lack of understanding of the game situation. I don't know who is worse Gailey or Pat Shurmur in Cleveland, but neither of those guys should ever be in a position to make one of those calls as a head coach on any football team ever again.
    I'm usually not one to put blame on a coach, but Gailey is just throwing games away. You have a RB averaging 7.3 YPC, 3 minutes left on the clock and are up by 6. DEEP PASS OF COURSE. Week before? Exact same fucking situation, thankfully Byrd caught a horrendous pass by Skelton, otherwise we'd be 2-5. It's just embarrassing, and he needs to be fired.

    You can tell WoW changed the MMO for good when players started complaining about the amount of time they sink, into a time sink.

  16. #4096
    The Lightbringer draynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irony View Post
    Spiller a bust...? I understand absolutely no one pays attention to the Bills, but we've had Fred Jackson(Who is pretty damn good.) as our starter, thus Spiller got limited playing time after a mediocre first season. This season and 5 games last season he's showed tremendous talent and one of only two consistencies on our offense. He isn't anywhere close to a bust, he was just drafted by a retarded GM.

    He's currently averaging 7.3 yards per carry this season, those aren't bust numbers. He'd also be first in yards had he not been injured and probably top 3 in TDs if Chan Gailey wasn't butt fuck retarded.
    they didn't draft CJ in the top 10 so he could back up a UFA, that right there shows you the poor value in drafting a RB high, the undrafted guy could not be supplanted by the #9 overall pick and that is the point I was trying to make

  17. #4097
    I am Murloc! Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    they didn't draft CJ in the top 10 so he could back up a UFA, that right there shows you the poor value in drafting a RB high, the undrafted guy could not be supplanted by the #9 overall pick and that is the point I was trying to make
    Actually they did draft him just for that, it's just we made an overall retarded pick. We drafted him to be our number 2, so we could ship out Lynch due to his ever growing police record. He outplayed Jackson in pre-season and got the nod and had a mediocre first season.

    It was an awful draft pick, but the guy isn't close to a bust. I'm defending CJ, not the pick.

    You can tell WoW changed the MMO for good when players started complaining about the amount of time they sink, into a time sink.

  18. #4098
    The Lightbringer draynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irony View Post
    Actually they did draft him just for that, it's just we made an overall retarded pick. We drafted him to be our number 2, so we could ship out Lynch due to his ever growing police record. He outplayed Jackson in pre-season and got the nod and had a mediocre first season.

    It was an awful draft pick, but the guy isn't close to a bust. I'm defending CJ, not the pick.
    nobody is debating Buffalo doesn't know how to draft, the argument is that a backup RB is not a top 10 pick, however you want to interpret it, on that point we agree

  19. #4099
    I'm going to post this in the NCAA forums as well, but it looks like Lattimore's playing future is in serious, serious jeopardy here. For those of you who don't know or didn't see what happened ...

    WARNING: IF YOU HAVE A WEAK STOMACH -- DO NOT VIEW.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon...njury/1662359/

    For a kid with such high potential and in all likelihood was going to be a star in the NFL, this is just upsetting. Prayers with him and his family and I hope we see him back sometime soon.

  20. #4100
    I've been watching football for 15-20 years at this point. That's one of the worst injuries I've ever seen. Saw it live, and you knew it was bad as it happened just by the way the players on the field reacted. The replay is just brutal though. Yea, he was very likely a first rounder in the NFL draft.

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