1. #4721
    The Lightbringer draynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    In Times article on Goodell, they sat through a competition committee meeting in which Schiano pitched a new idea to eliminate kickoffs, something the NFL is going to do in the near future. After scoring a touchdown or kicking a field goal, the ball is placed at your own 30 yard line. The down is set to 4th and 15 from there. You have the option to either punt it away or go for the 4th and 15 to retain possession. Personally, I love this idea. The punt return is going to be basically identical to a kick return. The 4th and 15 is vastly superior to the onside kick in place right now. It would force teams to succeed with their offense, not hope to get lucky with a bounce. There are three downsides I see though. You need a rule to keep punters from just kicking it out of bounds so you would have to keep illegal procedure penalties in play putting the ball on the 40, it removes the sneak onside kick, and couldn't you see team like the Pats figuring out a way to game this so they never have to give the opposition the ball?
    sounded like an awful idea, but checking the numbers shows something like 20% of 3rd and 15s are converted which is around the same rate of recovery on expected onside kicks
    I still think its an awful idea, but the numbers don't hate it quite as much, psychologically teams will be more inclined to go for it, which I see as a negative, it would require such a precise set of rules to govern it to prevent abuse that it doesn't seem worth it

    I don't like it because phantom roughing the QB calls would get yet another chance to ruin a game and they ruin enough games as is, automatic 1st down penalties on plays deciding possession are one of my pet peeves

  2. #4722
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    psychologically teams will be more inclined to go for it, which I see as a negative
    Lol no they wouldn't. That would never happen. Coaches are petrified of change and breaking groupthink. Just look at the complete unwillingness to go for 2 points prior to the 4th quarter or go for 4th downs ever. Cleveland has lost two games this year, Dallas and Philly, because of their coaches terror of going for 2 prior to the 4th quarter. a 5 point lead is functionally identical to your chances to win as a 6 point lead. If you are up by 5 and have the option to kick an extra point or go for two, going for two is the right choice even if you only convert like 28% of the time since your opposition is in a nearly identical hole whether it is 5 or 6 points. Carolina has blown at least two games this year because of their refusal to go for 4th and 1 late in games. It cost them in the Atlanta game, it cost them a couple weeks ago. The miniscule field position gained by punting is worthless compared to the potential in running out the clock. Carolina has one of the best running games in the league and won't make those obvious choices.

    NFL coaches aren't going to suddenly be more inclined to go for it. Just look at the fascinating levels of stupidity in places like Cleveland, Buffalo, Carolina, Oakland, etc. where they are so risk averse it literally loses them games because they can't make those decisions correctly. There are only 3-4 teams who would see the advantage the rules gives them and exploit it as much as possible, New England, New Orleans, etc. the smartest teams in the league on the sidelines.

    The QB penalties are another issue altogether. They wouldn't drastically increase with the rule anymore than expected. The NFL needs to address them in general, not hold of changing rules because of the fear that more incidents might pop up. The refs need to start judging intent and viciousness of hits, and not have all the contact under one blanket and judge a grazing of the helmet on an unstoppable attempt to block the pass (the play that cause Seattle to lose to Miami) different from a guy trying to tear a QB down by the head (See: Ndamukong Suh's career).

    You can't do much to change automatic 1st down penalties unfortunately. Roughing the passer you can tighten up and make correct calls sure, but you can't do anything about pass interference or defensive holding. If you change those to 5 yards and no automatic 1st you will get defensive backs just tackling guys if they get a step on them to have a do over play. It is kind of like last week when a player got horse-collared to prevent a touchdown. That play should be an automatic touchdown rather than half the distance to the goal which ended up being two freaking yards. There is no elegant solution to fix the penalties on pass interference since granting an automatic touchdown would be nonsense and impossible to judge since who knows if the player would have caught the ball. The only inbetween would be a 10 yard penalty and an automatic 1st which still doesn't address the auto 1st issue.

    I suppose the answer is better officiating or more review.
    Last edited by conscript; 2012-12-06 at 10:18 PM.

  3. #4723
    Moderator Pendulous's Avatar
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    By the way, how many head to head contacts get people concussions on kickoffs, compared to wide receivers getting jacked by defenders on EVERY pass play? Where's those numbers to support the idea that killing kickoffs would make the game safer? Actually, how much better is a punt going to be if people are charging at a punt returner the same way?

    Dumbest. Idea. Ever.

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  4. #4724
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    By the way, how many head to head contacts get people concussions on kickoffs, compared to wide receivers getting jacked by defenders on EVERY pass play? Where's those numbers to support the idea that killing kickoffs would make the game safer? Actually, how much better is a punt going to be if people are charging at a punt returner the same way?

    Dumbest. Idea. Ever.
    From a pure physics standpoint, the punt is much much safer. On a kick, there is no buffer to prevent guys from gaining speed. The kickoff guys and the return block guys start yards apart from each other and are going full bore before contact. On a punt, contact is being made to slow down guys at the line of scrimmage with the possible exception of the gunners if the team is lined up for an all out punt block. The only contact issue you really have on punts is when a guy is a fucking moron and doesn't fair catch while a free running gunner is coming right at him.

    This is slightly out dated, but it shows that kickoffs have a substantially higher rate of injury than any other play in the game. This was prior to last year's changes which already dramatically reduced the injuries on kickoffs.

  5. #4725
    The Lightbringer draynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    Lol no they wouldn't. That would never happen. Coaches are petrified of change
    but thats just it, change is thrust on them

    and teams that are always bad are bad for a reason, and you're naming one of the reasons, but for the non-incompetents, this is something you can more easily scheme for, a play to net 15 yards, rather than kick the thing and hope your guy comes out of the scrum with the ball, since it seemingly depends more on skill, coaches who believe they and their players possess that skill will be more inclined to go for it, especially when they know there's more skill on the offensive side of the ball than on the defensive

    what you're saying about QB rules is how I feel, in terms of priority, fix that shit then move on to the next thing, the game is broken, if you touch the guy's head trying to bat down a pass, its 15 yards, I don't want to watch a game where the QB gets to hide in some immunity bubble, so lets not add more weird rules when the fundamental game you are promoting, the passing game, is broken

    but these penalties do not crop up on onside kicks, there is much smaller risk of the referees critically interfering with such an important play, maybe I'm arguing minutiae, but like I said, thats my peeve, and such a major rules change would see plenty of scrutiny

  6. #4726
    The Chargers are finally firing Turner and Smith reportedly at the end of the season. This should've happened like how many years ago?

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...at-seasons-end

  7. #4727
    Fluffy Kitten Badpaladin's Avatar
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    Fuck, Denver may not be able to waltz to a third division championship next year.
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  8. #4728
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombinator04 View Post
    The Chargers are finally firing Turner and Smith reportedly at the end of the season. This should've happened like how many years ago?

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...at-seasons-end
    Remember that time the Chargers fired a coach coming off a 13-3 (14-2? i forget) season and then outside of one year the replacement coach made the team worse and worse every single season. Good times. I'll believe the Chargers are firing him when I see the story that he has been fired lol. This should have happened 2 years ago.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 07:06 PM ----------

    Dean Spanos came out and said the reports are completely false and that he hasn't shared his thoughts about Norv and Smith with anyone.

  9. #4729
    Herald of the Titans Vetali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    Remember that time the Chargers fired a coach coming off a 13-3 (14-2? i forget) season and then outside of one year the replacement coach made the team worse and worse every single season. Good times. I'll believe the Chargers are firing him when I see the story that he has been fired lol. This should have happened 2 years ago.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 07:06 PM ----------

    Dean Spanos came out and said the reports are completely false and that he hasn't shared his thoughts about Norv and Smith with anyone.
    What? lol.

    Fucking getting my hopes up again. Norv Turners neck grosses me out.

  10. #4730
    Fluffy Kitten Badpaladin's Avatar
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    Oh, yes. Please don't fire him!
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  11. #4731
    The next rule change they should do is to change the extra point-2 point conversion. All extra points should now be 40 yd FGs and all 2 point conversions should be from the 5 yard line. This would make the play once again somewhat exciting rather than another boring automatic.

  12. #4732
    The Lightbringer draynay's Avatar
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    and then they could scatter mines underneath the field at random, but QBs will have a censor in their helmet to prevent them going off of course

  13. #4733
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    and then they could scatter mines underneath the field at random, but QBs will have a censor in their helmet to prevent them going off of course
    They are going to have a censor in their helmet? Is he going to be blacking out random parts of the field he finds offensive blocking the QBs vision or beeping out every curse word a player or coach yells out?

    That was a joke, but it came across like a grammar dick. Imma leave it anyways.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 08:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjabb View Post
    The next rule change they should do is to change the extra point-2 point conversion. All extra points should now be 40 yd FGs and all 2 point conversions should be from the 5 yard line. This would make the play once again somewhat exciting rather than another boring automatic.
    I don't know about the 40, but I would be willing to compromise and say spot the ball at the 13 making it a 30 yarder.

  14. #4734
    The Lightbringer draynay's Avatar
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    there's no such thing as a grammar joke, only grammar dicks

  15. #4735
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    there's no such thing as a grammar joke, only grammar dicks
    Brutal.

    Denver is only up by 10 at the end of the 1st quarter with the ball in the red zone. Step it up Broncos. Manning is technically on pace for 600 yards in this game though.

  16. #4736
    Fluffy Kitten Badpaladin's Avatar
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    Fucking pathetic. Broncos are doomed if they can't get touchdowns in the red zone.
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  17. #4737
    Moderator Skarsguard's Avatar
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    Ehh Raiders I was listening to SVP today on the radio and they had a segment on that said if the raiders would have drafted the guy after their draft pick they would have gotten like Megatron,Fitzgerald,and Aaron Rogers god raiders suck for draft picking players.

  18. #4738
    Fluffy Kitten Badpaladin's Avatar
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    Well it was a win and the Defense played great, but Jesus Christ. You can't go fucking 2/6 on touchdowns in the redzone against a defense like Oakland's. Denver may have a great record, but they do not look like a team that can contend with the Texans or Patriots.
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  19. #4739
    The Lightbringer draynay's Avatar
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    the Raiders aren't to blame for everything, they got a lot of praise when they drafted McClain and that hasn't worked out well either

    but the trouble is that most of the time they don't even have a pick, if only they had known that unstoppable Tebow steamroller was gonna take the division last year they could've saved a couple picks instead of blowing them on Palmer

    if you want to give them crap for anything, they had 2 first rounders in 2002, 17 and 23, Ed Reed went 24

    taking Fitz in 2004 would've been big too, they'd just lost Tim Brown and were about to lose Rice, having to rely on Jerry Porter is not a solid plan and that's went things started going south for them 2002-2004

  20. #4740
    Now that I think about it the NFL should take the XFL's Scramble to determine who gets possession. Its infinitely better than the damn coin flip which is purely luck and can cause teams to win or lose all because of its outcome (like what happened to my Bears this week)

    Confused what Im talking about? Take a look

    Id love to watch each team with a specialist for that in order to decide possession. Imagine the drama in overtime games.

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