World of Peacecraft

[Kainan]

I think blizzard is lining up for a pvp expansion of sorts because the way things are going a war might actually break out between the two factions.

[Deleted]

You have other factions besides the Horde and the Alliance, the Horde and Alliance are just both good guys that have old grudges against eachother. Sometimes those grudges need to put aside to take down a greater threat.

Also, In patch 4.1 Battlegrounds will be removed, however, we have added "Tea Parties". 10 members of the Horde and Alliance will be fighting against eachother in a friendly Scrabble, Monopoly, Yathzee or Bingo game. Tea and biscuits will be provided during these epic struggles between the two factions.
Skill is taken to a whole new level as players fight for the Highest Wordscore in Scrabble, use your clever mind to gather the most PolyGold, or show off your epicness with your high Yathzee scores or be the first to complete your BingoTablet
Honor points will also be removed from the game and replaced by Biscuitpoints, which can be traded in for epic phat loot.
Arenas will also be removed and replaced by an epic game of Chess, use your queen well and protect your king.

[Thage]

I think blizzard is lining up for a pvp expansion of sorts because the way things are going a war might actually break out between the two factions.

In Cataclysm, a war HAS broken out between the two factions. The 'official' reason is over resources, but when you consider that both the Alliance and Horde have at least one ally whose lands are rich in resources, that reasoning quickly falls apart and you realize it's because Varian and Garrosh are completely insane.

[wizdro]

Patch 5.0: Battlegrounds have been replaced by new, instanced "diplomatic summits" (DSs). Horde and Alliance players will zone into a DS and make small talk, eat appetizers, and listen to long winded speeches and debates about economic reform, animal rights, and proposals to limit emissions caused by engineering. Participating in DSs will reward players with Cooperation Points which can be spent on vanity rewards like hybrid choppers, guild neckties, and tabards which represent the various factions on the Azerothian Stock Exchange. Players will be able to compete against each other in rated DSs in order to win points towards their Guild All Share. Players of the same faction will be able to compete against each other with the new "Diplomatic Games" feature in order to enjoy themselves in mock debates that test their knowledge of Azerothian Internation Law and the sections and subsections of the Universal Constitution established in Shattrath City in patch 4.7.

Bloody brilliant. I would play that game.

The name of the game, Warcraft, doesn't necessitate that the war always involves the Horde vs. the Alliance.

What Lachdonin said is really my stand on the issue.

More importantly, pitting factions against eachother ruins the players ability to make the world a better place. Oh, look, i've killed Garrosh, but now the alliance army is so weak the Legion is going to come and slaughter us. This constant intricine war is better suited for the dark and depressing world of Warhammer (Which, by the way, i also love, but for different reasons) where the theme is struggle despite inevitable failure. WoW's about heroism, and in order to be heroic, you need to vanquish evil, not someone with a different political agenda.

[Thage]

Varian has peace on his mind not conquest, or why else would he have signed the treaty? His actions have shown opposite of his words to Thrall in the Undercity. Varian as king is allowed to show anger, it's a human emotion and the Horde have evoked enough of it from him. Even boy wonder Thrall loses his temper but I don't hold that against him.

Varian might, but Lo'Gosh doesn't and Lo'Gosh is the dominant personality the majority of the time. Lo'Gosh, odds are, is the personality who stated his intent to annex the Undercity and break up the Horde, while Varian won out long enough to allow Saurfang to collect his son's body. That's the problem with leaders having severe DID.

[Sarog]

In Cataclysm, a war HAS broken out between the two factions. The 'official' reason is over resources, but when you consider that both the Alliance and Horde have at least one ally whose lands are rich in resources, that reasoning quickly falls apart and you realize it's because Varian and Garrosh are completely insane.

How does it fall apart? The Shattering establishes that the Horde's lack of resources is approaching outright famine.

Granted, the Alliance isn't suffering the same lack of resources, but that isn't their motivation in the war anyway. You could say it is because Varian is insane, I guess, since he's bankrupting his nation to finance the invasion of Kalimdor and pressing criminals into the army, but the Alliance's reasons for war aren't grounding in resources as far as I'm aware. The Horde's reasons, however, are. You can't really just blame it on Garrosh being "insane", since the lore has established that the Horde needs access to more resources to survive and Thrall himself seems aware of that necessity even if he doesn't like it.

[Deleted]

Varian might, but Lo'Gosh doesn't and Lo'Gosh is the dominant personality the majority of the time. Lo'Gosh, odds are, is the personality who stated his intent to annex the Undercity and break up the Horde, while Varian won out long enough to allow Saurfang to collect his son's body. That's the problem with leaders having severe DID.

Varian Wrynn doesn't have 2 personalities, you are confusing real life with fantasy. Just because Onyxia was able to split him into two persons, one he could easily control and one that could only fight and lead, doesn't mean you still have 2 different persons when they merge back together.
After the merge he was like he was before, but just with the memories of his time as Lo'gosh.
Varian of today has no such thing as different personalities.

In Undercity he was enraged by the fact that Bolvar was killed by the Forsaken's doing. Bolvar was his best friend and took care of his son when Varian went missing. And that while the forsaken are with the horde, the orcs. The orcs that killed his father and mother, wife, destroyed his home, etc.
How would you react? Would you be all cool like "Yeah, nevermind, you killd by best friend, my parents, my wife, my city, sure mind your own business, let's work together, lets all be chilling."
He didn't knew there was corruption within the Ranks of the Forsaken (in Catalcysm you clearly see it wasn't really corruption, it was all in the command of Sylvanas).

In Icecrown he saw the pain Saurfang felt to see his son dead. Varian is a father himself and lost his own, he lost his wife, his friend. So he knows the pain of losing someone he holds dear.
In Ulduar cinematic Varian was kind of disgusted that the orcs also attended the meeting, but Varian wasn't the one who started the fight. Garrosh started insulting, Varian become angry (keep in mind his past experiences with Orcs) and then Garrosh charged into battle.

Accept the bloody fact that one character can have multiple character traits.

Now you could say: Bla bla bla, Thrall lost his parents, was also forced to fight as a gladiator.
Keep in mind that the humans gave Thrall a lot. They trained him in human tactics, learned him to fight. The humans also have shown Thrall love (Jaina, Tabetha, etc). They gave him a shelter (altho it wasn't a pretty one).
Keep in mind that Thrall never knew his parents, while Varian lost his kind of right before his eyes, he saw his own city burn.
Varian has never known the love of an Orc, while Thrall has known Humans that loved him.
That makes a big difference.

Garrosh, what has Garrosh known of misery? Nothing, he was only ashamed of his father drinking the DemonBlood, he never really saw anyone die before his eyes. When he knew that his father actually was some kind of hero for the Horde, he became all hot headed, and Thrall being stupid, thinking he might be like his father, gave him high positions within the Horde, causing only trouble.

[AvalonTLW]

Do these people realize you are playing World of WARcraft?

If i remember correctly, We've been at war with demons in The Burning Crusade, and a legion of undeads in Wrath of the Lich King.
Also, battlegrounds.
Is that not war over resourses?

[Pull My Finger]

It's actually completely retarded and delusional to think Warcraft is about the Alliance/Horde conflict and that the two are meant to be strict enemies. Seriously, where have you been?

The biggest constant and also a driving element of Warcraft lore is the ambivalence of the relationships between the races. In fact, it's the most interesting part of the lore. Thrall being friends with Jaina, Tirion saving Eitrigg, High/Blood Elves repeatedly changing sides, many Forsaken being former humans, while others being former High Elves, the Tauren being loyal to the Horde, but respecting fellow Night Elf druids and coexisting with them within the Circle Of Cenarius, Vol'Jin despising Garrosh, Fandral clashing with Tyrande ... there's so many ties between the races, and yet again so much that divides them, leading to conflict. Just like real life and history.

Black/white stories are boring.

[Sarog]

Varian Wrynn doesn't have 2 personalities, you are confusing real life with fantasy. Just because Onyxia was able to split him into two persons, one he could easily control and one that could only fight and lead, doesn't mean you still have 2 different persons when they merge back together.
After the merge he was like he was before, but just with the memories of his time as Lo'gosh.
Varian of today has no such thing as different personalities.

The Shattering says he does.

[Brayton]

Godwins law after 3 posts.
New record?

I lol'd

What makes it even funnier is no one even noticed this... ah well

[Xiaz89]

Patch 5.0: Battlegrounds have been replaced by new, instanced "diplomatic summits" (DSs). Horde and Alliance players will zone into a DS and make small talk, eat appetizers, and listen to long winded speeches and debates about economic reform, animal rights, and proposals to limit emissions caused by engineering. Participating in DSs will reward players with Cooperation Points which can be spent on vanity rewards like hybrid choppers, guild neckties, and tabards which represent the various factions on the Azerothian Stock Exchange. Players will be able to compete against each other in rated DSs in order to win points towards their Guild All Share. Players of the same faction will be able to compete against each other with the new "Diplomatic Games" feature in order to enjoy themselves in mock debates that test their knowledge of Azerothian Internation Law and the sections and subsections of the Universal Constitution established in Shattrath City in patch 4.7.

now that would be awesome xD

[allrightythen]

Problem with this theory is that Blizzard is making more changes to make WoW more PvP focused.

If the leadership(the lore behind the PvP focus) changes, than that would mean Blizzard would have to undo the PvP additions.

no more PvP zones and stuff like that. Since we buddy buddys

your taking the person you quoted far and above what he said.

he didnt say garrosh and varian will meet and untimely demise and....then everyone will be at peace.

no he didnt.

he said they will have a untimely demise.

hell even metzen referred to garrosh as a foil for thralls story. and that if we love horde the way it is now (pre cata) then how will we feel when we have to fight for it.

i dont see these "dark days" for horde lasting too long

[Deleted]

The Shattering says he does.

Oh please, not everyone reads those shite books. In my opinion it is quite bullshit that things are explained in books and not in game. It is the lore of the Game, so god damn explain it ingame, instead of releasing books on a successful franchise just to make more money.

It is like Sartharion, why the hell are we fighting him? It is explained in a book? Couldn't they just make an introductory quest for it, bloody hell? And what the hell is with these twilight drakes, where did they come from?75% of the wow players have no idea why you are fighting him.
Malfurion is back? Why? What, explained in a book? Couldn't they just make some short catalcysm introductory quest?
Seriously, having some interesting quests would be nice instead of the ones we got now (they are kind of entertaining, but it is quite lazy in my opinion).

Atleast the book Arthas was just a novel of stuff you already did back in WC3 and most of the information in the book was also ingame.

[Zaelsino]

Oh please, not everyone reads those shite books. In my opinion it is quite bullshit that things are explained in books and not in game. It is the lore of the Game, so god damn explain it ingame, instead of releasing books on a successful franchise just to make more money.

It is like Sartharion, why the hell are we fighting him? It is explained in a book? Couldn't they just make an introductory quest for it, bloody hell? And what the hell is with these twilight drakes, where did they come from?75% of the wow players have no idea why you are fighting him.
Malfurion is back? Why? What, explained in a book? Couldn't they just make some short catalcysm introductory quest?
Seriously, having some interesting quests would be nice instead of the ones we got now (they are kind of entertaining, but it is quite lazy in my opinion).

Atleast the book Arthas was just a novel of stuff you already did back in WC3 and most of the information in the book was also ingame.

Your dislike for them aside, those books are canon and his actions and personality are based on them.

Anyway, I think this recurring two personality thing is a waste of time. It makes the character look stupid, and it was massively overdone in that comic.

[Thage]

Rocket, the thing with Ony splitting him up is that while Varian got all the diplomacy and charisma, Lo'Gosh got all the martial prowess and tought much like an orc. All through the Shattering, Varian and Lo'Gosh have been fighting for dominance with Lo'Gosh having the upper hand. That's the entire reason he sends Anduin off to stay with Jaina.

---------- Post added 2010-11-04 at 04:28 PM ----------

Oh please, not everyone reads those shite books. In my opinion it is quite bullshit that things are explained in books and not in game. It is the lore of the Game, so god damn explain it ingame, instead of releasing books on a successful franchise just to make more money.

It is like Sartharion, why the hell are we fighting him? It is explained in a book? Couldn't they just make an introductory quest for it, bloody hell? And what the hell is with these twilight drakes, where did they come from?75% of the wow players have no idea why you are fighting him.
Malfurion is back? Why? What, explained in a book? Couldn't they just make some short catalcysm introductory quest?
Seriously, having some interesting quests would be nice instead of the ones we got now (they are kind of entertaining, but it is quite lazy in my opinion).

Atleast the book Arthas was just a novel of stuff you already did back in WC3 and most of the information in the book was also ingame.

Canon is still canon, whether you like it or not.