Regarding 2H PvP

[Deleted]

Hello,

I am curious to know the pros and cons between playing either Unholy PvP or Frost PvP? I play more BGS than anything, and I understand things are balanced for 85 but at the moment unholy doesn't seem to be playing to well? I mean I'm doing okish, just wondering how frosties are doing?

Kier

[Vaka]

I'm assuming you're asking in regards to battlegrounds and maybe world pvp, since arena seasons are done till Cata, but as far as damage goes.. If you want to see your name at the top of the meters for damage and deaths, Unholy isn't a bad option. Your diseases tick for more and you won't have the 50% penalty to diseases spread by pestilence and you do considerably more D&D damage. The drawback is that it doesn't really have the survivability of frost. As far as single target pewpew nukage, frost is pretty awesome with either 2h or dual wield. I personally prefer Frost but ultimately it's going to boil down to what fits your playstyle and what you like the most.

[chris1402]

Go frost. I was unholy for a while, but for me frost puts out more burst. Its also fun to play

[Ripkit]

Howling blast spammable Aoe, as well as it being a strong single target spell, makes frost a clear choice. Although at 85 unholy will most likely be mandatory again for arenas because of the OP pet charge/stun and necrotic strike being taylor made for unholy. It's usable as frost, but not nearly as effectively.

But right now frost. Hits harder and howling blast is hilariously overpowered.

[Dalavita]

Howling blast spammable Aoe, as well as it being a strong single target spell, makes frost a clear choice. Although at 85 unholy will most likely be mandatory again for arenas because of the OP pet charge/stun and necrotic strike being taylor made for unholy. It's usable as frost, but not nearly as effectively.

But right now frost. Hits harder and howling blast is hilariously overpowered.

Necrotic strike + howling blast?

[Rickroller]

Frost is great and for pvp its just epic. Massive burst, its ridicules.

[Deleted]

Ok seems frost is best to go for as it stands atm, so what about weapons? 2H or DW? I currently have Byntroll (spelling?) but i have some Honor saved up for getting 2x weapons if needed?

Also what gems/chants/forges to go for? I have only ever played unholy for pvp. Do i still go all out with haste?

Kier

[Deleted]

Ok seems frost is best to go for as it stands atm, so what about weapons? 2H or DW? I currently have Byntroll (spelling?) but i have some Honor saved up for getting 2x weapons if needed?

Also what gems/chants/forges to go for? I have only ever played unholy for pvp. Do i still go all out with haste?

Kier

I am also interested on the topic. From what I have heard DW is supposed to be just way better - hits harder due ToT and the fact that you can have both Razorice and Fallen crusader, it also has faster attack speed, but the downside is that you should stay in Frost pressence, as opposed to 2H where you stay in Unholy for more ability spam. Also I noticed that 2h is better vs heavier armor, bec you use Frost strike a lot more, and dw is better vs lighter armor due to higher hitting strikes.
I also have some honour saved up and cant decide whether I shoudl get the 2h, weaps for DW or just save it for Cata, because casters are insanely OP now and they piss me off...

About gearing - 2h is Haste-Mastery-Strenght; DW is Strenght-Mastery-Haste IMO.

[VoltaireWrites]

For a more burst-like playstyle I would choose a 2-Handed Weapon. Lower speed = Bigger numbers. As far as Mastery or Haste? Go Mastery. I'm up to 36% increased Frost Damage through the Frozen Heart Mastery and you notice it.

Runeforge? Fallen Crusader and Razorice both work. Fallen Crusader is better for BG's imo, due to it's healing being all we get as Frost.

[Muraza]

Frost is straight up damage, but with less control. Pick your poison.

[Ripkit]

Necrotic strike + howling blast?

I'm operating under absolute certainty that blizzard will nerf howling blast into the ground. Currently, it's BEYOND overpowered. It crits for 6-12k in BGs depending on resilience.. On every target within range.. spmammable.. on a 1 second GCD.. and in PvE it's even more overpowered. I did over 50k DPS on a trash pack in ICC-25 earlier. It completely defies blizzard's idea of no cleave damage. Howling blast will get a complete rework before 4.0.3 comes out--it hits almost as hard as obliterate/frost strike, and it is a spammable AOE that's part of your single target rotation.

I assume they will cut the damage in half, either the whole ability or just the secondary targets will receive atleast 50% less damage, maybe less. What they really need to do is make Icy touch the proc slam DPS ability and howling blast would used only for AOE.

[Raistlin]

I'm operating under absolute certainty that blizzard will nerf howling blast into the ground. Currently, it's BEYOND overpowered. It crits for 6-12k in BGs depending on resilience.. On every target within range.. spmammable.. on a 1 second GCD.. and in PvE it's even more overpowered. I did over 50k DPS on a trash pack in ICC-25 earlier. It completely defies blizzard's idea of no cleave damage. Howling blast will get a complete rework before 4.0.3 comes out--it hits almost as hard as obliterate/frost strike, and it is a spammable AOE that's part of your single target rotation.

I assume they will cut the damage in half, either the whole ability or just the secondary targets will receive atleast 50% less damage, maybe less. What they really need to do is make Icy touch the proc slam DPS ability and howling blast would used only for AOE.

Spammable implies that its....spammable. Howling blast isn't. 2 HB every rune cycle (discounting bloodtap and ERW) aren't gonna kill, or even threaten anyone engaging in group pvp that has a spinal cord.

And who gives a flying fuck about trash? If icy touch was the proc reward and not howling blast, you would have zero frosttree-only abilities as part of the single target rotation, save pillar. Not very interesting or compelling design.

Not to mention that considering the current incarnation of Icy Touch, without extreme buffs probably wouldn't be worth the GCD to press it to even take advantage of rime.

[kerwyn]

Frost is straight up damage, but with less control. Pick your poison.

DW frost will probably be the spec of choice for rated BG's.

spellshattering and swordshattering and just go to town as an unstoppable killing machine.


Well, maybe not spellshattering, but you should at least have swordshattering on your offhand.

Cinderglacier would be nuts with howling blast.

[Deleted]

If they make IT the proc and not buff it really really hard(hitting for triple dmg at least) I will completely skip it and get something marinally better - like the slowing effect on FF for example, or free interupts. Also it is not really spammable - the only way to spam it for more than 2 times without CDs is if you have used BS before and have some death runes, but that requires that you have spent abpout 10-12 secs (depending on haste) on the target beforehand, which kind of justifies the spamability. But comparete it to the moonkin starfall which does more dmg on single target and is still pretty OP even as a AoE.
And yeah, it can kinda crit high, but not as much as Obliterate. and while it can pop some 10k ish numbers, but that is due to the fact it is a spell and spells are insanely OP right now

[Dalavita]

I'm operating under absolute certainty that blizzard will nerf howling blast into the ground. Currently, it's BEYOND overpowered. It crits for 6-12k in BGs depending on resilience.. On every target within range.. spmammable.. on a 1 second GCD.. and in PvE it's even more overpowered. I did over 50k DPS on a trash pack in ICC-25 earlier. It completely defies blizzard's idea of no cleave damage. Howling blast will get a complete rework before 4.0.3 comes out--it hits almost as hard as obliterate/frost strike, and it is a spammable AOE that's part of your single target rotation.

I assume they will cut the damage in half, either the whole ability or just the secondary targets will receive atleast 50% less damage, maybe less. What they really need to do is make Icy touch the proc slam DPS ability and howling blast would used only for AOE.

Cataclysm scaling takes care of any Howling blast single target burst. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEbC5UukrAA

It's still a good ranged nuke, but it's not 2shot material.

[Deleted]

Howling blast spammable Aoe, as well as it being a strong single target spell, makes frost a clear choice. Although at 85 unholy will most likely be mandatory again for arenas because of the OP pet charge/stun and necrotic strike being taylor made for unholy. It's usable as frost, but not nearly as effectively.

But right now frost. Hits harder and howling blast is hilariously overpowered.

Unless pet stays really vurnable for killing and cooldown so long.

[Tyrean]

I have been doing DW frost in BGs lately mainly because I can have 50% disarm reduction in my offhand and FC in my main hand. I will try out have cinderglacier in my MH this weekend to see if I notice it or not. Unholy is nice for the same reasons it ever was, the pet and the ability to deal with ranged classes easier, but frost is better in BGs right now because of the burst. Also, with DS not working exactly right if you are not blood spec the healing from Lichborne is very useful. I just wish AMS still gave me RP. I actually roll around in unholy presence for the speed and GCD lower as DW even. I find that the ability to unload 3 Oblits in 3 seconds on a single target healer is insane, as well as being able to pump out 4 HB in a group in 4 seconds.

Have fun now, because when we are all level 85 it will be back to control with low burst as unholy.

Oh, and I miss my old chains. I can't do neat stuff anymore with a normal snare. I want the old chains back.

[Ripkit]

Spammable implies that its....spammable. Howling blast isn't. 2 HB every rune cycle (discounting bloodtap and ERW) aren't gonna kill, or even threaten anyone engaging in group pvp that has a spinal cord.
And who gives a flying fuck about trash? If icy touch was the proc reward and not howling blast, you would have zero frosttree-only abilities as part of the single target rotation, save pillar. Not very interesting or
compelling design.
Not to mention that considering the current incarnation of Icy Touch, without extreme buffs probably wouldn't be worth the GCD to press it to even take advantage of rime.

To answer your first point, you can use up to 4 howling blasts with death runes up in a row, which is more than enough to kill any player in a BG, and anyone within 10 yards of them, unless they're a healer (since healers are imbalanced right now), or wearing some insane amount of resilience. Also, with blood tap, Runic empowerment procs, rime procs, I get to cast howling blast every other GCD. I triple the damage output of any player of any class in any bg, solely because of hoslig blast, and quadruple dps in Icc trash. You're being selfish and narrow-minded if you think that's not a problem.

Also if you think doing massive cleave damage on any form of adds on any boss fight is okay, you're stuck in a WOTLK melée dps mindset, not Cataclysm. There isn't supposed to be much of any cleave damage in Cataclysm.

Yes there is a frost specific ability, it's called Frost strike, which is 30-40% of your DPS. And I'm simply working with what we've been given, rather than attempting to invent a new spell. Yes, if rime were to proc IT for single target DPS, and howling blast for Aoe dps, ITs damage would need to be raised substantially during the proc.

Hopefully, as another poster mentioned, howling blasts scaling is fixed as we make our way to 85. Although, since IT is already on rime, I think it's fairly obvious that blizzards intent is to make it the single target dps rime attack, not howling blast, because yes it is incredibly op to do that quality of cleave damage on any boss with adds, trash, BGs, or any other situation.

[Deleted]

Ok, so its clear to go DW, so what 2x weapons should I go for?

[Ripkit]

Ok, so its clear to go DW, so what 2x weapons should I go for?

For pvp? Double wrathful 1-handers.