Philosophy of Hellfire Healing

[masterdisaster]

This isn't enough information to go off of. If they start casting hellfire at 5% health, or they use it when not healing them would kill the tank, then its their fault. In any other situation I can think of it is the healers fault. Also the healer should be healing them between fights.

EDIT: also as has been said, it seems some healers don't know what Hellfire is legitimate and if the lock is specced right then it is good dps. Healers should really consider things like this, you may think you are weeding out bad players when you are really punishing them for doing the right thing, which makes you look like a douche.

[Bigtimmy]

Honestly, the self-damage portion of hellfire is largely negated if you spend the 2 points in demo to double the amount healed by your fel armor (and protip: only demo locks should be using hellfire for aoe). Even without those 2 points spent, though, like 1 renew from a priest in even half decent gear should be enough to cancel out all the self-damage from it.

Of course, you never EVER want to use hellfire if you have aggro, or if there's lots of damage going out to other players, so that would be on him... but if you as a healer aren't really doing anything else as you just watch the lock quizzically while his health slowly drops, then you're just a lazy, bad player.

[Deleted]

I was healing a 5 man group last night that had a Demo Lock in it who would Hellfire himself to death. Other than bosses, it was the only spell he'd use. Go stand on the tank, channel Hellfire. When the channel was over, if any mobs were still up, channel Hellfire again. I checked Recount at the end of the run and Hellfire made up 77% of the guys damage. He never used Metamorphosis once the entire run.

Anyways, I (playing Resto Druid) kept him up initially, but after I saw what he was doing I stopped, just curious to see wtf he was actually doing. Twice he Hellfire'd himself to death. He was taking some mild AoE dmg (maybe 2k/3 sec or something) and just channeled Hellfire until he died. I really wasn't sure what to make of it.

I ended up letting the guy die a couple more times just because I don't want to encourage bad players to continue playing bad. I *could* have kept him up easily, but I was just baffled at this playstyle and was curious to see if he actually WOULD kill himself if given the chance.

Anyways, please inform me. Is this a valid form of dpsing now for Demo Locks? If it's their top dps for trash packs, then I'll happily heal them through it. If it's just a lazy form of dpsing, I think I'll continue to let them die when I get grouped with them. I know it's not my responsibility to teach them to play, but in Cataclysm you are NOT going to be able to dps like that. I'd rather do my part to weed out these people now than to have to deal with them later.

HF is a great AoE now, sadly with a trade off. There was a point where they were going to remove the self damage component of it but it would be pretty over-powered. Talented it has a larger range than the graphic would signify so they can actually stand out of melee range to use it. It has had some work done to the spell to make it useful and as such would be the go to AoE for Demo locks on trash. It's even better with Meta and Immolation Aura so it puzzles me why the 'lock you mention didn't use it. Maybe he was saving it or simply forgot about it if he was completely new to the spec.

So to get to the point, HF is really good on Trash. Nothing wrong with mixing things up but it's no different from using SoC or RoF all the way to the bosses except that it hurts a little bit.

To sum it up in 2 points:

a) if you're a 'lock don't kill yourself if you're not getting heals. There may be a good reason for that.

b) if you're a healer, don't let a warlock die at the cost of not throwing a HoT if you possibly can.

[Deleted]

If the warlock is Demo, he's using hellfire. You suck if you can't heal that since most of the damage is negated by the healing from Fel Armor alone. And in tight situations warlocks just death coil a random mob. The guy who said use rain of fire? Seriously? That's like asking a fire mage to throw out more frostbolts.

And seriously... in any dungeon 90% is now aoe damage. Single target? You gotta be kidding me.

[Astrofax]

All locks know what Hellfire does, so they should know that it WILL kill them. I run with my warlock friend all the time on my druid healer. Its no big deal to throw one rejuv on him and let him go to town, but the burden is still on him, especially in a raiding or PvPing situation. it all boils down to this:

CASTING HELLFIRE WILL KILL YOU, YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS. NOW LESS QQ, MOAR PEWPEW!!!

[Boyiee]

Speaking of Hellfire, does anyone have numbers of hellfire vs seed as demo?

[bahumut5]

Well, Demonology Locks their new main AE is Hellfire, which can not be canceled by pressing "Esc", which causes some Warlocks to run around with it, unknowing how to cancel it.

This might cause some problems indeed.
Before I got that macro found on the Warlock Forums, I used to cancel it by pressing "T" (Which is Life Tap for me).
However, if the Warlock has low HP already, then this causes him to be unable to use Life Tap.

So next time you get a Warlock, you might want to tell him you are not gonna heal him if he keeps using Hellfire, and that you will only cast a single heal on him every 40 sec.

[Nangz]

Well, Demonology Locks their new main AE is Hellfire, which can not be canceled by pressing "Esc", which causes some Warlocks to run around with it, unknowing how to cancel it.

This might cause some problems indeed.
Before I got that macro found on the Warlock Forums, I used to cancel it by pressing "T" (Which is Life Tap for me).
However, if the Warlock has low HP already, then this causes him to be unable to use Life Tap.

So next time you get a Warlock, you might want to tell him you are not gonna heal him if he keeps using Hellfire, and that you will only cast a single heal on him every 40 sec.

I've been able to cancel it ONLY by pressing esc. You can also click off the buff.

[Jessicka]

Hellfire does self damage to prevent it being OP against Rogues in PvP - there is a very valid reason for that mechanic to exist. Furthermore, it does the best AoE damage for Demo locks specced correctly, and at low levels is flat out the best AoE a Warlock has. The spell is there, and we use it for a damn good reason: to do our job.

Telling him, or just refusing to heal them to force them to use something else is no different than them telling you to use the wrong heals and 'wrong' ways of doing your job. It now does very minor damage to the Warlock, most of which is offset by Fel Armor and other self healing effects so there is no reason not to heal it - unless of course you just feel like being a jackass because it gives you some kind of power trip to let people die. Then frankly, that's you being bad, not the Warlock.

[Grimgore]

I'm going to assume that he didn't have Fel Armor up, because he wasn't healing himself through much of the damage. He was getting Wild Growth on cooldown as well, and he still was taking quite a bit of damage. Nothing that isn't easily healed through though.. I'd say it was about the same as people who are standing in the ice aoe thing from the 2nd to last boss in Oculus. Rejuv would be enough to heal through it.

Anyways, I'll roll rejuv's on Demo Locks when I group with them now. I wasn't not healing him b/c of some power trip or whatever, but because I was ignorant of the changes to Demo. Pre-4.0.1, a Demo Lock casting Hellfire as their only spell on anything that isn't a boss would be a sign of a horrible, horrible Warlock. Plus, it wouldn't have killed the guy to whisper me 'Hey, I'll be using HF on every trash pack on CD, it's top dps now' or something. Just about every dungeon I get into I have to whisper the Pally to cast Might instead of Kings b/c very few of them (in my experience) know that Kings and MotW don't stack anymore. But regardless, I'll throw heals on the Demo's. I still stand by my thought that it's not going to be a viable form of dps at 85 though, if healer mana is as tight as everyone seems to imply it is.

[Zaylie]

I've been able to cancel it ONLY by pressing esc.

It is not possible to cancel it with escape or /stopcasting. Only way to do it is with a '/cancelaura Hellfire' macro, or cast another spell of course.

[Adjutant]

at 80 HF is ~500 DPS to the lock.

shut up and heal us, we are using it because it is the best AoE for Demo, if we were aff we would be using seed. But we are demo, so do your job and heal us.

This is the exact attitude that pisses me off as a healer. ASK FOR A FUCKING HEAL, dont demand it.

Now im not saying we should heal you, but its not your right to be healed.

Edit:
On a side note, At certain levels while leveling i dont like healing life tap, from a tendency to go oom, but when i get to high 60's and high 70's, then im fine with it. : /

[Boringz]

Plus, it wouldn't have killed the guy to whisper me 'Hey, I'll be using HF on every trash pack on CD, it's top dps now' or something.

No. It's not the locks fault that you aren't up to date with 4.0.1, when you join a dungeon you're not really thinking "Hey let's tell every1 what I'm gnna do this dungeon, although they should already know!". If you don't heal a person because you are being ignorant to that spell he uses, you should stop healing and go play a dps spec. Because what you are saying here is, that if he would have been hit by a mob that hit for example 1.8k, you would have healed, but not if the hellfire which is in this case his main aoe spell hits for 1.8k.

But enough of flaming you, to not make you look 100% stupid I'd also suggest the warlock to play better rather than the basic moves they can do. A proper warlock shouldn't need heals from a healer to do hellfire, if they just regulate the deathcoil, healthstone and soul harvest properly.

[Jodah]

Coming strictly from the warlock PoV I use it whenever I want/need. However, I don't bitch if I don't get healed. Same with life tap. I have ways to get health back. If the healer chooses to heal me it makes my job easier. If they bitch I tell them not to heal it then.

[Deleted]

i use hellfire, but i'm always well aware of the rest of the group; if i can see that the healer is struggling i won't use it. But it's the same as life tap; yes, you should use it, and healers should heal through it, but you should only use it when you know you're not going to be taking any hits.

[Greyarea]

If the warlock has Soul Link as well as Fel Armor up, hellfiring themselves to death should be VERY tough. Add that with soulburn drain life if desperate or a death coil on a near dead mob if it's safe for them to run around for a few seconds. Not to mention health stone. I dont see how a warlock can hellfire themselves to death with so many tools to keep themselves topped up if the need arises.

Reall a simple HoT should be sufficient once the lock drops to 75% or lower to allow them to last the rest of the pull. If they want to be a total aoe machine they should be meta'ing and doing the immolation aura too.

If the warlock isn't demo and still doing hellfire as opposed to RoF (Destro) or Seed (aff) they are just lazy, let them die imo, but don't punish a warlock for playing their spec how it is ment to be played.

[Boringz]

This is the exact attitude that pisses me off as a healer. ASK FOR A FUCKING HEAL, dont demand it.

Now im not saying we should heal you, but its not your right to be healed.

You sir, are a special case by itself.
I mean, how can a healer say "I'm not saying we should heal you"...
You pick the role of healer so you're going to heal your group members,
don't act cocky coz you know what? If you don't want to heal, pack your bags and go home pls.. There are enough healers in the world that know what their job is and are happy to do theirs.. you don't seem to fit this and should roll dps.

If every1 in this world was like you, nothing would happen. We'd all be standing still being cocky waiting for the other person to ask it friendly while he knows bloody well what he is supposed to do.

good day to u sir.

[Nicola]

Warlock POV;

if they heal: no problems with the healer.
if they dont heal, say bye bye and kick the healer.

[DotDotDot]

post is stupid... Hellfire does hurt, but hardly anything anymore.
i can hellfire spam all day long, and fel armour wil heal for 90% of the damage you take. the warlocks u are with are pulling agro from it and thus taking to much damage.
passive Aoe healing (i dunno wot sorta healer u are) but most healers hav some sorta aoe stuff, or one HoT wil heal fully a hellfire + lifetap -_-

Hellfire damage the lock takes was nerfed before 4.0.1

[rhorle]

It's called having situational awareness. If you don't have the mental wherewithal to watch your health bar while using the ability, then don't use it because you're just a leech on the healer and the group in general.

As far as healing goes...I'll toss them a HoT and leave the rest up to them. If they want to burn themselves into the ground, great. I'm not going to keep them up if they can't cancel the fire just before they die, though.

If you don't want to heal a person, why are you playing that role? It is stupid for healers to just let someone die when they don't need to spend all their time healing the tank. Fact is hellfire is a buffed aoe for the demonology spec and is meant to be used.

Healers need to just do there job with out being arrogant or feeling entilted that their heals only go to deserving people. Also a demo warlocks hellfire is a little harder to cancel since it can be casted while moving.

---------- Post added 2010-11-04 at 01:01 AM ----------

I ended up letting the guy die a couple more times just because I don't want to encourage bad players to continue playing bad. I *could* have kept him up easily, but I was just baffled at this playstyle and was curious to see if he actually WOULD kill himself if given the chance.

It is always funny when people use methods like this. Teaching bad players by being a bad player yourself is very amusing. It would be like someone yelling at a resto shaman for casting some LB when it can be a benefit to their healing.

---------- Post added 2010-11-04 at 01:06 AM ----------

This is the exact attitude that pisses me off as a healer. ASK FOR A FUCKING HEAL, dont demand it.

Now im not saying we should heal you, but its not your right to be healed.

Edit:
On a side note, At certain levels while leveling i dont like healing life tap, from a tendency to go oom, but when i get to high 60's and high 70's, then im fine with it. : /

You give the group the right to be healed by joining the group as a healer. IF you don't want to heal why the hell are you playing a healer? So you would be just fine with a warlock joining your group and not doing any dps? Because after all it is his right to provide it or not. Bet you would kick a non-dpsing dps pretty quickly though.