Shard of Woe = Arcane win

[Fujisaw]

i know what you mean. i was arcane all the way up to 4.0 because of that reason but Arc missles were more of a key. i guess i jsut dont like the AB spam to 40% the go in to the rotation aspect. but hitting that sweet spot in any spec makes you feel OP i know on some fights in ICC hiting that 19k-20 marks makes everyone in the raid cry

[Darsey]

Arcane is actually the most complex spec of them all. Yes you have only 3 keys to press, but its the only spec that has no rotation, and that you have to reconsider the next spell you cast each and every time.

While fire or frost just go on with there rotation or procs, arcane has to think: Do I want to burn mana on AB? Do I want to conserve mana untill my CDs are up? What is the highest dps mana conserving playstyle I can play withoutlosing mana so Ill have full mana to the next time my CDs are ready. Did I get clear cast on my 2nd/3rd AB so can I do one more high dps spell without losing the mana?

Fire is about following the rotation (and it is an annoying rotation due to FFB glyph). Frost is about spamming frost bolts and maximize your procs/IV. Arcane is about adjusting your playstyle to your mana, your gear and to the nature of the fight.

Its easy to say arcane is a one spell spec atm, its even quite true on short fights that you can spam arcane blast none stop. However Iv seen arcane mages and I have seen arcane mages some ware doing 14k dps in icc with 6.2k gs and some ware doing 17k with 5.7k gs. If it was all about spamming the same spell it wasn't like that.

[Shwaam]

shame arcane is the most boring mage spec

In PvE yes. In PvP on the other hand it's quite fun.

[Micke]

each to their own what they think of the arcane spec, just saying that you have an invisible nuke, practically no mobile dps, only melee range aoe, and its way too unforgiving on progression fights

if you get a burn phase with all cds delayed or interuppted due to movement or other things its a huge dps loss and is sometimes out of your control

[Erik765]

if you get a burn phase with all cds delayed or interuppted due to movement or other things its a huge dps loss and is sometimes out of your control

And this doesn't happen with every other spec of every other dps class out there?

People who think Arcane is the same old Arcane and is boring are either A) not smart enough to play it correctly, B) don't care to even try, or C) B because of A.

fire AOE combined or not with AE is very competitive in aoe numbers right now. Reduction in threat caused by AE helps tremendously and I've yet to pull off any decent tank using it. I pull more using fire by itself.

Mobile DPS with Arcane is not as good as fire, you're correct. Fire is, and has been for a long time now, a DOT spec. Arcane has ABarr, Fire Blast and PoM/AB (when it's up) which, when combined with blink / sprint gets a 'good' mage where he needs to be with plenty of spells to cast while getting there.

Again, it all comes down to playing Arcane right. If you're just going in to a fight thinking it's the same ol' same ol' you shouldn't be wondering why you suck at it... there's that word 'should' again...

[Micke]

And this doesn't happen with every other spec of every other dps class out there?

People who think Arcane is the same old Arcane and is boring are either A) not smart enough to play it correctly, B) don't care to even try, or C) B because of A.

fire AOE combined or not with AE is very competitive in aoe numbers right now. Reduction in threat caused by AE helps tremendously and I've yet to pull off any decent tank using it. I pull more using fire by itself.

Mobile DPS with Arcane is not as good as fire, you're correct. Fire is, and has been for a long time now, a DOT spec. Arcane has ABarr, Fire Blast and PoM/AB (when it's up) which, when combined with blink / sprint gets a 'good' mage where he needs to be with plenty of spells to cast while getting there.

Again, it all comes down to playing Arcane right. If you're just going in to a fight thinking it's the same ol' same ol' you shouldn't be wondering why you suck at it... there's that word 'should' again...

No it doesn't happen to every other dps spec, everyone has cds sure, but arcane also the burn all mana phase and also needs to stand completely still for the entire duration, this also comes in to play with evocation, delaying the burn phase and cds also delays the use of evocation, which in the long run adds up to fewer burn phases. This phase is a tremendous large portion of overall dps, unlike the rest of the other specs where cds is more like a bonus.

Arcane is only about 2 things
1. spending as little mana as possible
2. spending as much mana as possible

During the 1. phase it doesnt really matter what you cast aslong as you are above 90% mana but below 100%, e.g stacking up to 3 stacks a few times, and making up for it with a few 1 stacks other times (you can do 1 stacks with abarr ready) or a strict 2 ab stacks the entire way or simply being lucky with clearcasting/AM procs, aslong as you keep within the mana thresholds it works out to the same roughly as it is the same amount of mana spent.

During the 2. phase RNG will have a tremendous effect (crits and clearcasting) but mainly its just about burning down to 33% ish with AP/mana gem and evoing back up again and start 1. phase

As for mobile dps, there will be times when you need to do high dps while being on the run at the same time, and that is something arcane is incapable of

Unless you always stand right next to the mobs that is going to be aoed, its always going to be a dps loss getting there to start AEing, not to mention getting back aswell. Burning blink for this wastes not only mana and a gcd, but you burn your main survival tool (not counting a 5 min iceblock) aswell. As for the threat reduction, if your guild is good, that wont be an issue, good tanks, misdirects/tricks etc, also most of the times you'll be able to dps other things while waiting for the threat to build up, but you also have things like mirror images/ring of frost to control loose adds


Arcane is a functioning spec, but there is nothing but disadvantages when you compare it to fire/frost, arcane does not have a special perk that makes it better at a certain something, fire has cauterize, mobile dps and aoe, frost has aoe slow and controllable burst (IV, DF, ffo and cold snap). You might say arcane has controllable burst? only if your mana is high and your cds are up, if they arent you'll be dropping so hard on overall dmg done later if you mismanage your mana, you'll either run oom or your evo wont bring you up to 100% meaning your 1. phase will be lower dmg, and you likely wont regain enough mana through efficent rotation/raid mana regens to bring it up above 90% meaning the next burn phase will do lower dmg and go on for shorter time. If you fuck up/mismanage/is forced to burn mana it will be an evil circle dragging you down throughout the fight

[Erik765]

Lol. k. which is why Arcane is the spec that mages are raiding with at the moment... because fire is amazing at mana and never requires evocate... I'm guessing you fall into the 'A)' category, but it's ok...

You had a LOT of exaggerations in there, but I'll let them slide because this is not and never was a spec fanboy thread. Play your fire... have fun going, as you call it, "oom".

OP's should be able to close threads when needed and when they begin going on about nothing to do with the thread's title...

[Rurikar]

Any guild that is able to kill this boss won't be giving it to an Arcane mage over a healer. Even as a mage who knows and understands the power of Arcane, this is not something you would give to a DPS first even moreso to a DPS spec that will not be played until later in the expansion. Arcane at 85? You must all be jesting.

[Micke]

Lol. k. which is why Arcane is the spec that mages are raiding with at the moment... because fire is amazing at mana and never requires evocate... I'm guessing you fall into the 'A)' category, but it's ok...

You had a LOT of exaggerations in there, but I'll let them slide because this is not and never was a spec fanboy thread. Play your fire... have fun going, as you call it, "oom".

OP's should be able to close threads when needed and when they begin going on about nothing to do with the thread's title...

oh personal attacks, I see you ran out of counter arguments

Most are raiding Fire, and alot are also not even allowed to raid due to class performance

Fire does have free scorch to get by, but you're right, fire does have mana problems, and overall all 3 mage specs suffer in dps. But I'm hoping that these arent the design intents and will be fixed, the spec perks I mentioned will likely not change however, but we will see.

exaggerations? every good raider looks at all points of views and prepare for the worst to happen and how to combat it

also fanboy? play my fire? I never said fire was my fav spec.

And this does have to do with the thread, it was about how great it would be for arcane, but then you need to analyse how great is arcane in of itself to warrant us taking it from healers?

[Erik765]

I did not run out of arguments... I stated I wish not to argue an irrelevant-to-this-thread topic. If you do, please take them somewhere else.

Swizzle already did the math which should have been the end of the thread imo.

Is it good enough to take from a healer? Guess it depends on the guild it drops for, who actually could use it more, who has more dkp, or how well Blizz fixes healer's mana issues before Cata hits, as I highly doubt Arcane's mastery will be changed at all.

[Charmoore]

With the new shared loot 10/25 model, this will be easy to get as a mage. If you are always in the hard mode mindset and have the content on farm status you can bet that it will end up in your hands. Having a solid group (10 man) you can expect to get this after healers or OS healers get theirs; depending on your groups make up.

[Micke]

I did not run out of arguments... I stated I wish not to argue an irrelevant-to-this-thread topic. If you do, please take them somewhere else.

Swizzle already did the math which should have been the end of the thread imo.

Is it good enough to take from a healer? Guess it depends on the guild it drops for, who actually could use it more, who has more dkp, or how well Blizz fixes healer's mana issues before Cata hits, as I highly doubt Arcane's mastery will be changed at all.

Allright, but remember it takes 2 to form a discussion, and we were certainly not the only ones to discuss the arcane spec itself, anyway I'm an open minded guy, if you have any good counter arguments I'd love to hear them so that I and others could perhaps learn something new or simply gain another point of view, we're all here with the intention of leaving with something new, right?

[Aunor]

Yes there is much more to it while playing arcane that many people dont know shit about. I played arcane in naxx, ulduar, totc and icc before it got buffed like this, somethimes i got lots of critics for it especialy while we progressed on icc 25 hc modes before 4.0.1 . there is much more to it simply, u have a lot of time to think while pressing those 2 buttons, planing how and when to hit the adds, planing how to use ur mana gems, mana potions, evocation, when to ask for inervates, try to be on 80 % mana when shaman uses manatied and stuff like that witch 12 k arcane mages woudnt know anything about, but 20 k dps mages woud. for some its boring and anoying for me its my favourite spec, do i must admit when my guild decided to progress a bit on LK 25 hc i did change it for the benefit of my guild, for that one boss.

However in cataclysam There are movment fights like alakir where arcane will be outdpsed by fire for a mile, there will also be fights like malorak .. or whatever was his name where arcane will rule supreeme there is mana regen debuff there witch u can ss, or Neffarian where fire will be much better, or chogall where arcane will pwn. all in all due to this reforging a good mage can switch between both spec with very little dps loss, not to mention an arcane mage with 40+ % mastery will be able to switch to fire with frostfirebolt easy mode without reforging a single item i bet.

As far as the trinket is concerned yes it is awesum for arcane mages do its not very usefull when ur switching to fire witch means u might need 3 trinkets :s, but u know if our healers have problems in healing the fights due to mana regen im a big boy il be quiet and w8 for my turn if it ever comes :I

[Swizzle]

Currently, each mage spec uses different BiS trinket set-ups using all three of the actual "Spell DPS" trinket available, which is a first.