Killing Healers in PvP

[Deleted]

Because when your that DPS and your blowing all your CD's and using counterspell and kick at the right time, basically using every tool you have been given and some dude is just staring at you while he casually doesn't die then the game feels horrible. Im not saying a dps just hits a healer and he dies instantly, but it should not be like a street fighter game where one guy is just hitting the other while he stands there laughing, that wouldnt be a good fighting game would it now? When your a dps with the toolbox that blizzard has given you to kill players, and your using them well and cannot get anyone below 50% then the game sucks and is no fun. Healers should be there to make there team last a bit longer, not be solo monsters that dominate the game, they should be flaccid without help.

Healers are flattended without help. I can only assume this comes from somebody that joins a BG without any friends and has stupid people in around him that dont apply the pressure right.
a healer confronted with 3 DDs and one of them with kick/silence/purge will fall in 10 seconds (gear at level between all of them), maybe 15 if all defensive CDs are ready.
If a healer were to fall to 1 or 2 DDs nobody would join a BG as a healer. Or you would need 6 healers in a warsong resulting in little dmg on the enemy flagcarrier being healed by one or two healers without a problem.

I havent had a BG where healers were unstoppable since 4.0 if the team worked as a team and not as a 10man I KILL commando.

- do damage to several targets - CC healers - purge/disspell/spellsteal shields and hots - and then clear the healer when you have enough DDs free for it.
if you cant do that, then you need to change your strategy / group. no healer is capable of healing 5 targets at the same time, not palas, not priests not druids (not mentioning shamans as they have 2 seconds AE heal and if you cant kick that you should move house to get a lower ping). most heal goes overboard since 10k heal on 2k dmg are wasted. "focussing" was a good strategy when healers were underpowered. it only works if you can focus a healer with 5 people and blow him down before your DDs get blown to pieces as the enemies casters will cast the full dps-pve rotation.

Not a matter of overpowered healers its underpowered strategies/teams. (rnd bg with no friends = no healers in ws.. yeah try winning that)

[critterkiller]

I wouldn't waste my time on 1vs1 with a properly geared healer. Normally I'll do my best to disengage if I find out it's a unkillable healer.

Find someone else to kill or something else to cap is more effecient.

yea ms nerf and as stated equaly geared healers compared to yourself= unkillable
unless you are 2-5 ppl on 1 healer

[Imbashiethz]

how to kill 1400 resi paladins with 40k health: Restealth & wait for DR

[Ughugh]

Quick update: I've found a lot of success with Garrote. Healers seem to panic more easily if they're silenced, rather than stunned, and tend to lose their concentration. Even if I die in the process, I keep the healer busy enough for my teammates to kill the others.

Thanks, guys!

[Girthbrooks]

Too many rogues are brushing off Assassination as a worthwhile PvP spec because of the lack of Preparation. The damage throughput compared to Subtlety is insane.

I realize Sub is a much better BG spec, but try opening on a healer like this: Vendetta (doesn't break stealth)->Garrote->Mutilate->Rupture->Mutilate
By this point, you should have 3-4 combo points (pending your spec), and the silence off glyphed garrote is about over. Hit him with a Kidney. I can almost guarantee they will trinket because if they don't, they're more than going to die. Feel free to blind here, get a restealth, and start over. The only glaring problem lies in the paladins ability to bubble, but save your vanish for that if it happens.

Honestly, the only classes I'm losing to in duels are still frost mages and some druids because thorns is whack right now. Since the patch hit, it's become 100% easier for Assassination rogues to handle healers. It sucks not having talents like Elusiveness, Initiative, and Prep, but the benefit of playing Assassination is still there. Venomous Wounds is a crazy, crazy talent for both PvP and PvE.

[phayze]

Too many rogues are brushing off Assassination as a worthwhile PvP spec because of the lack of Preparation. The damage throughput compared to Subtlety is insane.

I realize Sub is a much better BG spec, but try opening on a healer like this: Vendetta (doesn't break stealth)->Garrote->Mutilate->Rupture->Mutilate
By this point, you should have 3-4 combo points (pending your spec), and the silence off glyphed garrote is about over. Hit him with a Kidney. I can almost guarantee they will trinket because if they don't, they're more than going to die. Feel free to blind here, get a restealth, and start over. The only glaring problem lies in the paladins ability to bubble, but save your vanish for that if it happens.

Honestly, the only classes I'm losing to in duels are still frost mages and some druids because thorns is whack right now. Since the patch hit, it's become 100% easier for Assassination rogues to handle healers. It sucks not having talents like Elusiveness, Initiative, and Prep, but the benefit of playing Assassination is still there. Venomous Wounds is a crazy, crazy talent for both PvP and PvE.

I will admit that I haven't pvp'd all that much on my rogue since 4.0 on live (I did a couple against a boomkin with thorns and yeah, that turned me off to pvp for the rest of LK mighty quick). My question though is this.... if you have a rupture going and you blind, wouldn't you lose your blind to your DOTs? Even if you distance to get out of combat, by the time you do get out of combat and restealth and re-garrote, the healer's back to full, because the blind broke with the rupture tick (not to mention garrote might still be ticking, too).

---

Back OT: I don't really see a viable way to solve the dps vs. healer problem. Like someone mentioned, if dps could bull their way through heals, then why would anyone heal? You have to allow the healer to be able to heal one or two people pretty easily. But from a dps standpoint, it's annoying. I mean last night, granted it wasn't on my rogue, but I was dueling a resto druid (full wrathful), and I was wearing mostly-277 dps gear, with Shadowmourne, on my DK. And when I had all the stars aligned (everything from empowered ghoul, gargoyle, strangulate, a perfectly timed interrupt, and hitting HELLA hard), the closest I got was getting him to about 20%, and he was back to full about two seconds later. His mana never dropped below 75% the entire 15 minutes we were dueling.

Yeah, he couldn't kill me either. But yeah, I understand how it is very frustrating to fight a smart and well-geared healer as a dps in 1 on 1 situations. But there really is no viable solution. Just resign yourself to the fact that it's going to be extremely rare you will face off with a healer in a 1v1 situation for any length of time in BG's or and certainly arenas, and the rest of the time, you and your teammates just have to pressure the healers while helping to minimize the pressure on your healer.

For slightly lesser geared healers, just keep the pressure on them non-stop. Timing is everything. Just make sure you don't tunnel so much on dps that you let yourself die (healers typically don't do massive amounts of damage, but if they catch you sleeping they can still be dangerous).

[Lemons]

My question though is this.... if you have a rupture going and you blind, wouldn't you lose your blind to your DOTs?

Not with the new Glyph of Blind.

[Chimpzilla]

Honestly.. if you have 15 or 10 players in a BG and 1 or 2 are healers why should they fall from ONE damagedealer? seriously.
They have to heal 3 to 4 people at a time because if they wouldnt be able to the strongtest setup for small BG would be without healers whatsoever.
Its like dual DD in 2on2 Arena complaining that they cant just 111234 a player in 5 seconds and then the other one.

DDs wont kill equally equipped healers in one burstphase as this would kill the gameplay.
So no, its not you, its the game mechanics and they are supposed to be like this.

This. Also the game isn't balanced around 1v1., nor 2v2.

[Tanro]

Your playing a rogue and want to qq about healers? If your not 1 shotting eveything your probably doing wrong anyways.

[Threash]

If one dps was enough to take out one healer then there would be no reason to have healers in pvp, one healer is meant to deal with the damage of a lot more than one person.

[Xleetskeetx]

You're playing a rogue and want to qq about healers? If you're not 1 shotting everything you're probably doing it wrong anyways.

Low level trolololol ambush and level 80 are a completely different game. Those rogues that are leveling through that one shot nonsense are going to hit level cap and not know how to play. You can't look at how PvP is going right now as how things are actually supposed to be, because it's blatantly obvious that Blizzard took a dump on WoW's chest and is letting it steam there for two months while cataclysm prepares to release.

I went from underpowered-ish really having to play extremely well in season 8 to Garrote ShD Ambush Ambush Eviscerate Garrote Ambush ??? ??? ??? Dead; simply because damage scaled about 3 times as much as health did and I can destroy people within the 8 seconds of them being silenced.

[eternalwhitemoon]

Fortunately, holy paladins are going to be nerfed a bit shortly - protector of the innocent will no longer proc the extra heal when it's case on the paladin himself, if I remember correctly.

Still, I think a lot of the problem is that resilience is tuned to be way too powerful right now. I'd lay a wager that when Cataclysm hits and we all get to level 85, resilience will be weakened to the state before the 25% buff. Then we'll have to deal with larger health pools, but things ought to scale a bit better then as well.

Blessed Life is being nerfed, not POTI (to my knowledge). Blessed Life gives you a charge of Holy Power when you're being attacked (2 sec ICD), which means a hpally can spam a fully charged Word of Glory in 6 seconds if they're not doing anything else (assuming they're being beat on, as would be the case in a PVP scenario). If they Holy Shock and/or if they somehow have Tower of Radiance in their spec along with Blessed Life, they're completely swimming in free, uninterruptible heals. Blessed Life will be given an 8 second ICD.

[Hospy]

Blessed Life is being nerfed, not POTI (to my knowledge). Blessed Life gives you a charge of Holy Power when you're being attacked (2 sec ICD), which means a hpally can spam a fully charged Word of Glory in 6 seconds if they're not doing anything else (assuming they're being beat on, as would be the case in a PVP scenario). If they Holy Shock and/or if they somehow have Tower of Radiance in their spec along with Blessed Life, they're completely swimming in free, uninterruptible heals. Blessed Life will be given an 8 second ICD.

PoI will no longer proc on heals cast on yourself, so holy paladins will not be able to "double dip" by healing themselves with a 2hp WoG + 4k PoI. The most useful strategy when this change hits is to heal the beacon for free HP, but that only works with the non-instant cast spells, which of course can be interrupted. Basically these changes will seriously nerf holy paladin self-sustainability since our main heals are all 2 second casts, except FoL which is ~1.5. Easily interruptible.

[Heretic013]

Druid? Meh - you can get him if you practice. Priest? Doable. Shammy? Laughter.
Only Paladin is a trouble. Fought once 1 i AV for about 2-3min and nothing changed so just gone my own way.
Used all possible skills (Assassination Rogue): Garrote (Glyphed) - KSs - Arcane Torrents - Gouges - Kicks - Vanish to Garrote - Blind etc etc all possible to stop the heals...
Maybe around 10% of his mana was gone and health was back to full. There was a moment when he was really low at health but...
Lol its impossible with geard one if he at least has a minor skillz (to know when to trinket is enough). There should be at least a chance but damn. I dont say he could beat me - its also to hard for him - he focused on healing 99% of the time. Deadly was just doing thousands every DoT not to mention Envenom ignores armor and EA (with no CP cost) was constantly up for Mutilate.
ehh... it was like fighting a Training Dummy

[Ieft]

Many small things.

If its a priest wait til his weakend soul is dissapeared and sap x 3, garrote and open if theres enough pressure most priests you'll find in bgs will fear as soon as possible, so either kidney before garrote silence ends or bail away then shadowstep back, you can also cloak if you think you'll have enough pressure for a kill but if you dont score a kill it's really a waste.

Druids you have to be watching their hots, dont dance before barkskin and try not to kidney at the start of a lifebloom roll as you will be doing damage and then the 3 stack will bloom while there in a stun and you've really achieved nothing. Watch for the new thorns aswell.

Shamans I've never had any trouble with if they're staying alive purely from instant casts you're not applying enough pressure, if they cast they die, if you get juked gouge -> dance -> cheapshot, your kick should be back up.

Paladins are pretty ridiculous at the moment, still don't have a reliable strat for them. It's really hit or miss, some I kill with no hassles others stay at 100% life and mana.

Also if you're sitting on one healer for a very long time keep up recuperate for energy gain, snd and rupture. Try to always pool energy before dancing, the more energy you have when you start the more burst you're going to get, if you've kidney'd into dance attempt to garrote before kidney ends this will give you about 10s of the healer doing nothing. If you think a healer is about to cast and you can't kick / kidney / whatever in time gouge is a great way to stop them from doing anything while you pool energy and let cd's reset.

Lastly as sub doesn't have a speed boost other than after shs, get run fast on boots if you dont already have it.

[Lawlocoptor]

It's very easy for a Sub Rogue to lock down a healer. I'm surprised you don't know tihs..

Firstly, Glyph of Garrote.

Secondly, open with Garrote. Shadow Dance. Cheap Shot. Garrote. Garrote. Vanish. Cheap. Kidney. Dead. (You only do each one as the silence or stun wears off, not global after global)

Do damage/build points while the healer is silenced. Keep trinket/cloak for during the Cheap/Kidney shot stage as that is the weak point in the chain. If they fear/break away -> Trinet / Shadow Step, continue.

I find myself on my rogue in the same situation as OP, well geared in wrathful and heroic ICC gear, as hard as i can try, even this doesn't work. Cheap Shot and Kidney Shot are on the same DR now, by the end of this chain your last Cheap Shot and Kidney will be about 1-2 seconds each if that. Not to mention that vs. a H Pally, good luck getting any physical dps in. And with healing debuffs down to 25%, they can recover almost instantly if its a 1v1 and still have 95% mana left.

The game is very well broken as of right now, and I'm hoping the healers aren't like this in cata, from watching a few vids of the beta it seems they arent though which is nice.

[Imbashiethz]

with icc heroic gear and wrathful gear you should be able to beat any healer if you play right, especially holypaladins.

[Girthbrooks]

PoI will no longer proc on heals cast on yourself, so holy paladins will not be able to "double dip" by healing themselves with a 2hp WoG + 4k PoI. The most useful strategy when this change hits is to heal the beacon for free HP, but that only works with the non-instant cast spells, which of course can be interrupted. Basically these changes will seriously nerf holy paladin self-sustainability since our main heals are all 2 second casts, except FoL which is ~1.5. Easily interruptible.

Yeah, I know this isn't a holy paladin thread, but they went a bit overboard with all the nerfs. I think the biggest concern was Word of Glory cost no mana, so it was virtually impossible to kill a well geared holy paladin without silences/stuns. Maybe what they should have done instead was make a glyph or talent in the Holy tree to restore 100% of the mana cost of Word of Glory, essentially making it free but also requiring the mana to cast. *shrug*

But anyway, to the OP: I apologize, I forgot to mention Glyph of Blind. Unfortunately, there are more interesting decisions in the Major Glyph category than the Prime Glyph category, so you could easily use something else, but I'd keep it in mind.

Also, as always is the case, gear comes into play. I rock a pretty solid PvP set so maybe that's the difference in the ease of killing healers. Personally I feel like it's much much easier to handle healers post-4.0, even though most healers are very strong right now. If I were in your shoes, I'd focus on tightening up me CC, as rogues are as equipped as any class to deal with healers.

Cheers.