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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Foibles View Post
    The wowhead tooltip has it at 12 seconds max. It might be wrong, but that's all I have to go on atm.
    Inquiry of Faith (sixth tier ret talent) increase the duration by 150%, bringing it up to 30 seconds.
    "Humans need fantasy to be human, to be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape." - Terry Pratchett

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by eldritchknight View Post
    Inquiry of Faith (sixth tier ret talent) increase the duration by 150%, bringing it up to 30 seconds.
    Opps >.< I skimmed the talents, but didn't read them fully.

    Even so though, I really think TV should refresh Inquisition, or even refresh to 15 seconds. Prot has both HoPo uses refreshing Holy Shield.

    [11:50:45] Earthmender Duarn says: Shamanistic healing is a complex art. You can't just chain heal all day.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by whoranzone View Post
    I probably try that after I can stop laughing at that male human premade paladin.
    why oh why would you use a male avatar for a human?!

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Archmage Arugal View Post
    Perhaps you should bring up the uselessness of this ability on the official boards, since this seems more like something Blizzard hates and would change
    You new here?


    As it is, I'm not going to bother with Inquisition, too much hassle for not even a dps increase in most cases.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddlesnarf View Post
    You new here?


    As it is, I'm not going to bother with Inquisition, too much hassle for not even a dps increase in most cases.
    Exactly. Even if its a minor DPS increase to use it, there's a chance(and on well designed fights) a good one that it will be wasted because of required movement.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    why oh why would you use a male avatar for a human?!
    the premade happened to be male and I can't change it yet, was to lazy to level my own paladin on the beta.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by whoranzone View Post
    I am really not sure how something that lasts like what 30 seconds is so annoying to keep up it's about the same as slice and dice. And of course I didn't do any math on it but I it's hardly imaginable for me that a single tv every 30 seconds can outweigh the gain of the buff and if it really is that tight they probably would have been better off not going through with the last changes.
    I'm not saying that TV is better than Inquisition(don't know where people are getting that), but I'm saying that it's really not that much of a boost, especially when you get a better weapon and t11 2pc. Furthermore, weapon scaling trumps coefficient scaling, so at later gear levels the difference will be even less the better your gear gets. I don't know the exact value right now, but I'm guessing Inquisition will only be worth casting if you have ~20 seconds of uninterrupted use(ie...not moving). That's pretty bad for a spell that's supposed to be so integral to our DPS and be a big deciding factor in skill of the player(higher % uptime should equal better player, obviously).
    Last edited by Badpaladin; 2010-11-11 at 04:20 AM.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Badpaladin View Post
    When I'm not saying that TV is better than Inquisition(don't know where people are getting that), but I'm saying that it's really not that much of a boost, especially when you get a better weapon and t11 2pc. Furthermore, weapon scaling trumps AP coefficient scaling, so at later gear levels the difference will be even less the better your gear gets. I don't know the exact value right now, but I'm guessing Inquisition will only be worth casting if you have ~20 seconds of uninterrupted use(ie...not moving). That's pretty bad for a spell that's supposed to be so integral to our DPS and be a big deciding factor in skill of the player(higher % uptime should equal better player, obviously).
    The fact still remains though if it was only an increase when SoT was at 15% and it took 17S of straight up DPS to make it that way, then it stands to reason that a nearly 50% decrease in the seal to 9% would make it take somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 seconds of straight up time to make it a DPS increase. that means it is likely not one any more or so very slight as to be lost in the statistical grey area where when you get lucky with procs and do 500 more DPS than if you don't (not saying its a proc, just that it is gonna get lost in that area like that). That means that they are probably better off just bumping all holy damage done by the ret paladin by 30% via a talent (hi zealotry) or mastery and dropping inq completely. I am sure that if you bumped DP up to 50% and added DS to gen HoPow you would more than make up for the once every 2 min zealotry DPS increase. If they changed the mastery back to increase holy damage, dumped zealotry and put HoL in its place at a fixed proc rate with the other changes I mentioned I think you have a solid case for ret being complex enough with enough to watch.
    Last edited by Eladrin; 2010-11-11 at 04:25 AM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    The fact still remains though if it was only an increase when SoT was at 15% and it took 17S of straight up DPS to make it that way, then it stands to reason that a nearly 50% decrease in the seal to 9% would make it take somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 seconds of straight up time to make it a DPS increase. that means it is likely not one any more or so very slight as to be lost in the statistical grey area where when you get lucky with procs and do 500 more DPS than if you don't (not saying its a proc, just that it is gonna get lost in that area like that). That means that they are probably better off just bumping all holy damage done by the ret paladin by 30% via a talent (hi zealotry) or mastery and dropping inq completely. I am sure that if you bumped DP up to 50% and added DS to gen HoPow you would more than make up for the once every 2 min zealotry DPS increase. If they changed the mastery back to increase holy damage, dumped zealotry and put HoL in its place at a fixed proc rate with the other changes I mentioned I think you have a solid case for ret being complex enough with enough to watch.
    Err, no it wouldn't. Lowering your holy damage output by 6% doesn't lessen Inquisition's effect twofold, which is why I'm thinking it's going to be around 20 seconds of uninterrupted use to be worth the cast.

  10. #30
    With the T11 4pc does a 3 HoPo Inquisition last for 48 seconds? Or does it mean you can use the spell with 2 HoPo and get the same benefit as 3?

    I'm sure it's the former, but just checking.

    [11:50:45] Earthmender Duarn says: Shamanistic healing is a complex art. You can't just chain heal all day.

  11. #31
    4pc lessens the amount of casts, making it a solid DPS increase. However, I think 2pc + good weapon will scale better so that 4pc isn't as huge a DPS increase as it seems to be on paper. I'm also concerned about later tiers, where gear scaling and weapons will get better...unless they boost inquisition's damage bonus, but I somehow feel they're going to try and boost TV as much as possible since it's the centerpiece of the rotation, not inquisition.

    err...should be (4+4+4+4)(2.5) = 40 seconds
    Last edited by Badpaladin; 2010-11-11 at 04:42 AM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Badpaladin View Post
    Err, no it wouldn't. Lowering your holy damage output by 6% doesn't lessen Inquisition's effect twofold, which is why I'm thinking it's going to be around 20 seconds of uninterrupted use to be worth the cast.
    I am pretty sure they also cut exorcisms damage too, maybe I am remembering that wrong. Either way 20 or so seconds of uninterrupted DPS time is a lot and it means that you are going to have to DPS for a minimum of 67% of inq up time in order for it to be worth more than the extra TV. I am gonna stick with the extra TV being more worth it at this point.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    The fact still remains though if it was only an increase when SoT was at 15% and it took 17S ..., then it stands to reason that a nearly 50% decrease in the seal to 9% would make it in the neighborhood of 30 seconds to make it a DPS increase.
    im intrested to see how it changes in the coming weeks. if it stays how it is its like to be more of a pain to maintain for the gain if any gain at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    That means that they are probably better off just bumping all holy damage done by the ret paladin by 30% via a talent (hi zealotry) or mastery and dropping inq completely. I am sure that if you bumped DP up to 50% and added DS to gen HoPow you would more than make up for the once every 2 min zealotry DPS increase. If they changed the mastery back to increase holy damage, dumped zealotry and put HoL in its place at a fixed proc rate with the other changes I mentioned I think you have a solid case for ret being complex enough with enough to watch.
    i doubt they will go back to holy dmg mastery. when it was that they said it was way to op and ive read alot of posts saying that they want to avoid stats that only get better the more you have of it, even if its still partially true with some classes. i do like the idea you said of bumping Dp to 50%, and giving DS a hopo gen. and/or dumping/changing zealotry(currently shitty) and made hand of light a passive precent chance. i know they are thinking of combining ability CDs and another person mentioned having TV generate a 15 Inquisition buff which didnt sound too bad either. just have to wait and see how it all un folds.



    inb4 : beta is beta
    Death Knights are good for one thing. Bank Alts. Nothing more.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    I am pretty sure they also cut exorcisms damage too, maybe I am remembering that wrong. Either way 20 or so seconds of uninterrupted DPS time is a lot and it means that you are going to have to DPS for a minimum of 67% of inq up time in order for it to be worth more than the extra TV. I am gonna stick with the extra TV being more worth it at this point.
    I think they buffed exorcism a bit, but don't cite me on that. They change coefficients so fast that I don't even bother to check that crap anymore, I just work with what's already reported and confirmed by people with more diligence. I agree that using TV will be a lot better than Inquisition in some cases, especially with movement, but I think you're also overreacting a little bit. It's not going to be worthless by any means, it's just not going to be substantially better than TV such that there's a huge difference between ret paladins good with % uptime and ret paladins that are bad with % uptime, and that's an issue. The entire point of spells like this is to set apart the good from the rest, and it doesn't really do that very well.

  15. #35
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    If it's a point of setting the good apart from the rest, it would be easier to buff the %holy damage gained, and if it's just from a "QQ my damage is suffering without me trying to change my rotation or whatever to rectify it", then just change it so that instead of giving a holy damage increase, it changes 30% of physical damage into holy damage, which will also get around QQ in pvp.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Terrapin View Post
    If it's a point of setting the good apart from the rest, it would be easier to buff the %holy damage gained, and if it's just from a "QQ my damage is suffering without me trying to change my rotation or whatever to rectify it", then just change it so that instead of giving a holy damage increase, it changes 30% of physical damage into holy damage, which will also get around QQ in pvp.
    That's a very easy thing for them to dig us into a hole with. If they boost inquisition considerably, we'll be balanced around dealing damage with it up and thus suffer greatly with dynamic fights. Personally I feel it should just be scrapped in favor of something that isn't reminiscent of Savage Roar.

  17. #37
    Right now when spending more time on my unholy dk than my ret paladin i noticed how well festering strike blends in. If Inq would get a duration like 25sec and every TV would boost Inq duration like 6 seconds it would have a nice synergy and still would require some attention because you need to keep juggling the cd up. Then change the mastery slightly so that HoL procced tvs are 33% holy dmg and at least this aspect would be fixed! (scraping zealotry and our mastery concept all together would still be a better solution)

  18. #38
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    There's pretty much nothing they can give us in dynamic fights to even out the damage anyway, unless I'm forgetting some wrath or bc abilities that allowed us to do that? Or do you think just getting rid of inquisition and putting the seal damage back to what it was pre beta nerf would work??

    @Agathon - TV is so much part of our regular rotation anyway that this would pretty much make it something like another seal. We'd get major QQ.
    Last edited by Terrapin; 2010-11-11 at 07:53 AM.

  19. #39
    Didn't they say that Inq. only required having the holy power but it didn't use them up in the proccess? Or was that Zealotry (sp?)?

    In regards to the TV versus Inq. (if the above is not true), was the math done on paper or was it actively tested? If it was tested to get the 17s to be better then that statement still holds true as the Seal/Censure change was just the tooltip and not the actual skill.

  20. #40
    Is Seals of Command holy damage or physical damage?

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