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    Death Knight 4.0.1 Frost DPS Guide

    Huge Props and Thank you to Alcotraz for the layout, and alot of good information regarding the upcoming expansion and it's changes.
    His Tanking guide was amazing, and inspired me to create a PvE DPS guide. This is built for 4.0.1, but will be updated for Cataclysm shortly. I really wanted to get a new and complete guide built up for all the changes that just dropped, and look forward to keeping this up to date for Cataclysm!


    Edit::This is being reworked still. I am in the process of including mouseover tooltips for all things applicable, and working on the formatting of the document. If you see anything that doesn't make sense, please let me know!

    Frost DPS Guide for 4.0.1 and Beyond

    Table of Contents


    1. New Rune System & Runic Power
    2. Talents, Builds, and Rotation
    3. Glyphs
    4. Mastery
    5. Races
    6. Relics
    7. Stats
    8. Reforging
    9. Gemming
    10. Enchanting
    11. Recommended Professions
    12. Consumables
    13. Macros




    1.The New Rune System & Runic Power

    The latest patch introduces a fresh and newly re-vamped Rune System for Death Knights. Instead of each Rune being on an independent Cooldown, one Rune must wait for the other of it's kind to end it's cooldown before it begins it's own cooldown. For Example:
    Blood Rune #1 - Blood Rune #2 - Frost Rune #1 - Frost Rune #2 - Unholy Rune #1 - Unholy Rune #2
    You currently have no Runes on cooldown.
    0.0 - Heart Strike
    1.5 - Heart Strike
    3.0 - Death Strike
    4.5 - Death Strike

    Now you have:
    Blood Rune #1 on an active cooldown - Blood Rune #2 is considered fully-depleted and it's cooldown doesn't start until Blood Rune #1 is off cooldown. The same applies to your Frost and Unholy Runes: Frost Rune #1 and Unholy Rune #1 are regenerating while Frost Rune #2 and Unholy Rune #2 are on "standby" and are considered fully-depleted Runes. This sounds awfully complicated at first and it'll take some getting used to if you came from playing WotLK's fast-paced Death Knight but you'll get used to it.
    Can different types of Runes (Blood, Frost, Unholy) re-fresh at the same time? Yes, you can have up to 1 type of each Rune refreshing at the same time for a maximum of 3 different kinds. This does not include Death Runes. Keep reading.

    Death Runes work in much the same way. This is how these Runes work: Each Death Rune counts as a normal version of it's Rune. What this means is that you can have 1 "Blood Death Rune," 1 "Frost Death Rune" and 1 "Unholy Death Rune" recharging together at the same time the same way you can have 1 normal Blood, Frost and Unholy Runes recharging together. You cannot however have 1 Death Rune and 1 normal Rune of the same type recharging together. So for example:
    You use Icy Touch, Plague Strike and then Death Strike.
    Frost Rune #1 (used on Icy Touch) is re-charging.
    Unholy Rune #1 (used on Plague Strike) is re-charging.
    Frost Rune #2 and Unholy Rune #2 (used on Death Strike) have been converted to Death Runes. They will not recharge until Frost Rune #1 and Unholy Rune #1 are ready. Same rule applies if you Death Strike twice together, the second set of Frost and Unholy Runes will not recharge until the first set is ready. Blood Runes converted to Death Runes by Blood Tap are also subject to this rule.

    What happens when my ability misses? Nothing. You lose a GCD and the Runes used by the ability are simply refreshed without going on cooldown.

    Now I'll introduce you to an important and major addition to go along with this new Rune System: Runic Empowerment. Just as the Tooltip states, it can only grant you fully-depleted Runes. What does this mean? Simple. It can grant you any Rune that is not currently on an active cooldown. To use the same example from above here, Blood Rune #2, Frost Rune #2, and Unholy Rune #2 were all waiting on their #1 counterparts to finish their respective cooldowns. Runic Empowerment will only ever grant you these Runes. Runes that are not currently actively recharging, whatever Rune that may be. This ability may look great however it does have it's downsides. More on this later.

    Runic Power is generated when you use an ability that requires one or more Runes. It can also be generated by some Talents, more on that later.
    Single-Rune Abilities generate 10 Runic Power.
    Dual-Rune Abilities generate 20 Runic Power.
    Triple-Rune Abilities generate 30 Runic Power.


    2. Talents, Builds and Rotations

    Notes for 4.0.1 and beyond

    Many Death Knight talents have been modified, removed, or even re-vamped. The way we use and gain talent points has also changed. You now must choose a Specialization, a "Main Tree" and before being able to apply points anywhere else you need to apply at least 31 talent points to your "Main Tree." Choosing a Specialization unlocks that tree and grants you passive Bonuses from it. At level 80 you now have a total of 36 talent points to spend. Usually you choose your Talent Specialization at level 10. In the case of Death Knights however we start off at level 55 so this is not possible, so instead we choose ours when we gain our first talent point.


    Changes that effect frost builds with the 4.0.1 patch

    • No longer able to tank (you CAN tank, but you're gimping yourself)
    • Both frost and unholy are easily just as viable DPS options.
    • Dual Wielding will result in the highest DPS, though 2H is still viable.

    Talents


    Tier 1

    Notes for each talent are split to DW/2H, so you will see an note of Required, Recommended, Optional, Useless for both specs per talent.


    • Runic Power Mastery
      Optional/Optional - This talent is only required for 2H builds. If you're going DW, you can still take this by swapping out points elsewhere, but imo this is a personal preference talent.


    • Icy Reach
      Required/Recommended - Definitely Required if you are going 2H, recommended if you are going DW (Need to get the 5 points to go to tier 2 somehow )


    • Nerves of Cold Steel
      Required/Useless - Increases your change to hit with 1h and off-hand weapons, huge requirement for DW, but completely useless if you are going 2H.


    Tier 2


    • Annihilation
      Required/Required - Straight up damage increase to one of your number one abilites for a single target rotation, must have.


    • Lichborne
      Optional/Optional - This is really just a PvP talent, and is not really useful in PvE, but can be situational.


    • On a Pale Horse
      Optional/Optional - This is really pretty situational, and is more of a preference than anything. Take this if you need the points, and you don't really need to interupt alot.


    • Endless Winter
      Optional/Optional - Another really situational talent. If you have to interupt quite a bit, use this over On a Pale Horse, otherwise this is up in the air.


    Tier 3


    • Merciless Combat
      Required/Required - This is a straight DPS increase to all targets below 35% health, and is needed to be able to make it down the tree a couple tiers down.


    • Chill of the Grave
      Required/Required - This will generate additional runic power which is very nice and an indirect DPS increase, and is also required to move down the talent tree a few tiers down.




    Tier 4


    • Rime
      Your Obliterate has a 45% change to cause your next Howling Blast or Icy Touch to consume no runes.
      Required/Required - Indirect DPS increase by allowing you to use more abilities for the same amount of runes when using your main attack, very nice.


    • Pillar of Frost
      Required/Required - Increases strength, which increases DPS. Also gives immunity to knockbacks, which is situational but nice to have.




    • Brittle Bones
      Required/Required - Increases strength and increases physical damage taken, both very nice and must haves.


    Tier 5


    • Chilblains
      Useless/Useless - This is really not going to help you in raids, and to be honest, isn't going to be of much use in dungeons either. PvP talent.


    • Hungering Cold
      Required/Required - Useless for raiding, oh shit talent for dungeons (albeit very situational), but is required for Howling Blast.


    • Improved Frost Presence
      Required/Required - Straight DPS increase if you're staying in frost (which you should for DW) and increased runic power generation for other presences (Nice for 2h, which will have you in Unholy Presence).


    Tier 6


    • Threat of Thassarian
      Required/Useless - If you are going DW, this is a must have straight up DPS increase; if you are going 2H, this is completely useless.


    • Might of the Frozen Wastes
      Useless/Required - If you are going DW, this is completely useless, if you are going 2H, this is a nice indirect DPS increase, and while not the greatest talent, it is required to get you to Tier 7.


    Tier 7


    • Howling Blast
      Required/Required - Excellent final talent that enables you to use Howling Blast, which is an awesome AoE ability.


    Builds

    Most any frost build you find, whether it's DW or 2H, is going to recommend you going into 3 Points Bladed Armor (Blood) and 2 points Epidemic (Unholy) to finish out your spec, while this isn't set in stone, they are two very solid talents that will increase your dps and reduce the amount of times you have to refresh diseases.

    Level 80 DW Frost Build

    This build is listed on EJ as having one of the highest DPS builds, while still having flexibility.
    Feel free to choose between 2 points in either Runic Power Mastery or Icy Reach, and within T2 you can choose between Lichborne, Endless Winter, and On a Pale Horse.

    You're going to be working in Frost Presence in this spec.

    3/31/2 DW Frost Build

    Level 80 2H Frost Build

    This build really isn't much different than the dual wield spec, other than removing points that are placed in strictly dual wield talents.

    You'll be best off DPS'ing in Unholy Presence in this spec while in a Single Target Rotation, and in Frost Presence for the AoE rotation.

    3/31/2 2H Frost Build


    Rotations

    There is no fixed rotation, frost DpS works off a priority model. To maximise DpS use the following priorities:

    Single Target Rotation Priority(DW uses Frost Presence, 2H uses Unholy Presence):


    1. Diseases up (Currently Howling Blast / Plague Strike)
    2. Obliterate
    3. Blood Strike
    4. Frost Strike
    5. Freezing Fog - Rime Proc
    6. Horn of Winter - This tooltip appears to be incorrect, will fix asap


    AoE Rotation Priority(done in Frost Presence):


    1. Howling Blast
    2. Death and Decay
    3. Plague Strike
    4. Frost Strike
    5. Horn of Winter - This tooltip appears to be incorrect, will fix asap


    3. Glyphs

    The Glyph System in general has seen a major re-work with the addition of "Prime Glyphs," and all Glyphs becoming permanently engraved into your Glyph Spellbook once you learn them once. The only way to remove a Glyph is by removing it with Vanishing Powder. You'll want to keep a stack around since you'll find yourself constantly switching Glyphs based on what situation you're in. As always there are some Glyphs that are made for Tanks and some that are designed for Dps.

    Prime Glyphs


    • Glyph of Frost Strike - Reduces the cost of Frost Strike by 8 Runic Power. Enables you to reduce waste of Runic Power, increasing DPS.
    • Glyph of Howling Blast - Your Howling Blast ability now infects your targets with Frost Fever. This will apply Frost Fever to any target that Howling Blast hits, very nice for AoE, not as good for single target.
    • Glyph of Obliterate - Increases the damage of your Obliterate ability by 20%. Enough said.

    Major Glyphs

    I will list all available Major Glyphs, alot of them are very situational, and depend on your taste.

    • Glyph of Anti-Magic Shell - Increases the duration of your Anti-Magic Shell by 2 sec.
    • Glyph of Blood Boil- Increases the radius of your Blood Boil ability by 50%.
    • Glyph of Chains of Ice - Your Chains of Ice also causes 144 to 156 Frost damage, with additional damage depending on your attack power.
    • Glyph of Death Grip - Increases the range of your Death Grip ability by 5 yards.
    • Glyph of Hungering Cold - Your Hungering Cold ability no longer costs runic power.
    • Glyph of Pestilence - Increases the radius of your Pestilence effect by 5 yards.
    • Glyph of Pillar of Frost - Empowers your Pillar of Frost, making you immune to all effects that cause loss of control of your character, but also freezing you in place while the ability is active.
    • Glyph of Strangulate - Increases the Silence duration of your Strangulate ability by 2 sec when used on a target who is casting a spell.


    Minor Glyphs

    Again, listing all Minor Glyphs as they really depend on what you want.



    4. Mastery

    Mastery is something entirely new, you get a different Mastery depending on what Specialization you choose. In the case of Frost DPS, you get the following from Frost Mastery:

    Increases all frost damage done by 16%. Each point of Mastery increases frost damage by an additional 2%.

    Does Mastery have a cap?
    There is currently no known cap on Mastery.



    5. Races

    Horde

    Blood Elf




    Orc


    • Blood Fury
      Great "trinket" type racial that will be a nice increase in DPS. Awesome for PvE.

    • Hardiness
      This is very PvP oriented, not useful for PvE.

    • Command
      This ability increases the damage that your summoned Ghoul’s do from Army of the Dead, as well as your summon ghoul pet if unholy; while 5% is not game breaking you do summon about 9 ghouls so buffing all their damage starts to add up, and having a 5% increase to your permenant pet is also very nice.

    • Axe Specialization
      This is extremely nice if you are planning on rolling mainly with Axes.


    Tauren


    • War Stomp
      Not extremely useful for PvE (raiding at least), but excellent for PvP.

    • Endurance
      Excellent for tanks, okay for DPS, but not really that great. Yeah you help your healer out by having a slightly larger HP, but it doesn't do anything dps wise.

    • Nature Resistance
      Nothing to talk about here, does nothing for you.
    • Cultivation
      Herbs...make delicious potions, elixirs and flasks oh my!


    Troll




    Undead




    NEW!! - Goblin

    Coming soon!!


    Alliance


    Draenei


    • Gift of the Naaru
      Eh. Not great for dps in PvE, but can help the healer out every couple minutes.

    • Gemcutting
      If you choose Jewelcrafting as a profession for it's DPS benefits, this can be helpful.

    • Heroic Presence
      Plus hit is always nice in PvE. This translates into higher dps, as it allows you to focus on other stats faster.

    • Shadow Resistance
      Again Ugh...


    Dwarf


    • Stoneform
      Nice for tanks, but situational for DPS at best.
    • Frost Resistance
      Again Ugh...

    • Explorer
      Benefits to be seen, but doesn't currently look like it will affect any particular role.

    • Find Treasure
      Well...not really useful for DPS, but nice to know.
    • Gun Specialization
      Listing for the completion of racials, benefits for a DK? None.

    • Mace Specialization
      +3 expertise in 1h and 2h maces, definitely nice if you are going to be using a mace as your main weapon.


    Gnomes




    Human




    Night Elf




    NEW!! - Worgen

    Coming soon!!


    Summary


    Horde


    Orc/Troll – A tie here going more to the side of orc, trolls are a nice alternative if you are never going to tank, but if you are even considering tanking, don't go Troll.


    Alliance

    Human/Draenei – +3 expertise in Maces/Swords will allow humans to dish out more damage, Draenei will get +1% to hit, good toss up here.

    Choosing a race can be pretty difficult, but go with what really makes you happy.

    With this in mind don’t pick a race you hate looking at just because of the racial ability, you never know how blizzard will change the racials in patches to come, but this is a good thing to consider in making your decision.


    6. Relics

    Relics are also known as Sigils for Death Knights. The same way as a Gun will give a Warrior some minor Stats, so do Sigils now. Here's a list of them:

    Sigil of the Hanged Man - Current Best in Slot
    Sigil of Virulence - Nice if you need the expertise, but the Hanged Man is better if you don't.

    All others are far too out of date at this point to even consider.

    Note: Relics currently have no Socket Bonus in-game. This may change at some point in the future.


    7. Stats

    Your spec depends your stat priority, as it changes slightly for each.


    Frost Dual Wield Stat Priority:


    1. Hit Until Cap (8%)
    2. Expertise until cap (200 Rating)
    3. Strength
    4. Mastery
    5. Haste
    6. Crit
    7. Agility


    Frost 2H Stat Priority:


    1. Hit Until Cap (8%)
    2. Expertise until cap (200 Rating)
    3. Haste
    4. Mastery
    5. Strength
    6. Crit
    7. Agility


    The Stats Explained

    1 Strength = 2 Attack Power

    (AP also scales into Spell Power for a DK which includes diseases and non-weapon attacks such as Death Coils. AP also increases the damage of Dancing Rune Weapon and Summon Gargoyle.)

    62.5 Agility = 1% Critical Strike Chance

    (Only take Agility if it comes on gear and the total AP bonus combined with other more useful stats on the item outweigh a similar item with Strength. Similarly, only enchant or gem an item with Agility if there is no better option available.)

    1 Agility = 2 Armor Rating

    (If specced for Bladed Armor 5/5 in the Blood tree, Agility will indirectly increase your Attack Power by 1/18 or, in other words, 18 Agility will increase your Attack Power by 1 Point - good to know, but still not enough to stack for Agility.)

    45.91 Critical Strike Rating = 1% Critical Strike Chance

    (In nearly every situation taking Critical Strike Rating over Agility is a better option simply because a DK gets more "bang for their buck". Basically, Critical Strike Rating grants a DK a higher Critical Strike Chance than Agility for the same item budget. Critical Strike Rating also affects both Melee and Spell Critical chance while Agility does not. All DK abilities except Icy Touch, Howling Blast and Death Coil use Melee Critical Strike Chance. DK's also have a passive critical damage increase called Runic Focus that grants double damage on Melee and Spell Critical Strikes)

    32.79 Hit Rating = 1% Melee Hit Chance

    (The required chance to hit for all level 80 2H Weapon Wielding classes against boss-level mobs is 8% or 262.32 Hit Rating. The required Hit Chance for like-level mobs while leveling or in PVP is 5% or 163.95 Hit Rating. Hit Rating affects every DPS attack a DK employs with the exception of disease ticks, which is important to know because a 1% increase in Hit Chance will produce a greater than 1% increase in overall damage. The value of Hit Rating also increases the value of Critical Strike Rating for DK spells.)

    26.23 Spell Hit Rating = 1% Spell Hit Chance

    (For all intents and purposes, Spell Hit Rating and Melee Hit Rating are combined into the "all-encompasing" Hit Rating, but I will address each of them exclusively. The required chance to hit with spells for all level 80 2H Weapon Wielding DKs against boss-level mobs is 17% or 445.91 Spell Hit Rating. Remember, only Icy Touch, Howling Blast and Death Coil use Spell Hit to check if they have a chance to miss. Speccing into Virulence 3/3 in the Unholy tree will lower a DKs chance to hit with spells by 3% or an overall Hit Rating of 367.22 and is lowered another 3% or an overall Hit Rating of 288.53 if a Boomkin (Imp. Faerie Fire) or Shadow Priest (Misery) is present in the raid. Being a Draenei will also increase chance to hit with spells and attacks by 1%.)

    8.2 Expertise Rating = 1 Expertise Skill

    (1 Expertise Skill decreases the chance that melee attacks made by the player will be dodged or parried by 0.25%. 32.79 Expertise Rating is equal to 1% less chance your attacks will be dodged or parried. The required Expertise cap to prevent Dodges from boss-like mobs is 214 Expertise Rating or 26 Expertise Skill, which roughly equals 6.5%. The cap to prevent parries is somewhere around 12-15% or 492 Expertise Rating, but is irrelevant for melee DPS as they should be attacking bosses from behind in every situation. Every DK talent tree has talents that increase their Expertise Skill such as Veteran of the Third War 3/3 in the Blood tree, Tundra Stalker 5/5 in the Frost tree and Rage of Rivendare 5/5 in the Unholy tree.)


    25.21 Haste Rating = 1% Haste

    (Haste directly increases the amount of white swings to a DK's DPS, which doesn't produce an overall desirable effect because DK's generate very little of their DPS from white damage. Almost every DK attack is an instant attack outside of weapon swings, which means Haste actually does very little to speed anything up in the DK's arsenal. Haste does affect a DK's GCD (Global Cool-Down) giving them a "wider margin for error", but doesn't add much DPS potential overall. Haste may be more useful for dual-wielding DKs at some point, but should probably be passed over in favor of more useful stats.)


    8. Reforging

    Reforging allows you take 40% of one Stat and reforge it into another Stat that isn't already on that item. You cannot reforge base stats (Stamina, Strength, Agility, Spirit etc, white stats basically) or Sockets. For example, you have an item with the following Stats:
    100 Critical Strike
    58 Haste

    You can reforge either 100 Crit into 60 Crit and 40 mastery, or you can reforge 58 Haste into 35 Haste and 23 mastery. This process can be undone and you can have items reverted back to how they originally were. You cannot reforge more than 1 stat per piece of armor. If you reforge a stat and then want to reforge another one you need to revert the item back to how it originally was first and then change it. Keep in mind that you can only reforge Trinkets with "equip" stats. Proc and white stats cannot be reforged, which makes most trinkets be impossible to change. For example, you can reforge Corpse Tongue Coin but not Sindragosa's Flawless Fang.

    What Stats should I Reforge from, and what Stats should I Reforge to?

    This section is being reworked and will be back soon!

    Where can you reforge?

    There are special Npcs for this. Guards in Capital Cities can point you to such Npcs.


    9. Gemming

    Gemming is going to go by the same rules as stats and reforging, for obvious reasons.

    Gems you want to look for:


    Meta Gems

    DW or 2H, typically the chaotic is going to be what you want, though swift is listed for the sake of an alternative.


    Two hand Red Socket




    Dual Wield Red Socket




    Two hand Yellow Socket




    Dual Wield Yellow Socket



    Two hand Blue Socket


    Coming soon!


    Dual Wield Blue Socket





    10. Enchanting

    Recommended enchants for each slot, including enchants only available to a profession.


    Which runeforge do I use?

    2H will always use Rune of the Fallen Crusader

    DW will need Rune of the Fallen Crusader on one hand and Rune of Razorice on the other, though it doesn't really matter which is which. Technically you might do about 0.5% dps more if you use Rune of Razorice on the mainhand.


    11. Recommended Professions

    The breakdown.

    • Herbalism = 66.7AP (average, requires consumables)
    • Skinning = 25 Crit rating
    • Alchemy = 64 AP (Flask of Endless Rage)
    • Enchanting = 64 AP
    • Jewelcrafting = 42 AP / 21 STR / 21 Crit Rating / 21 Haste Rating / 21 Hit Rating
    • Blacksmithing = 80 AP / 40 STR / 40 Crit Rating / 40 Haste Rating / 40 Hit Rating
    • Leatherworking = 64 AP
    • Inscription = 64 AP
    • Tailoring ~= 50-70 AP
    • Engineering = Nitro boots, 22 DPS Saronite Bombs, +48 Additional Haste on Gloves, +23 Additional Agility on Cloak

    12. Consumables

    Pretty simple, you're going to want to take Flask of Endless Rage.
    If you're low on a stat, you can drink a specialty drink (IE an Elixir) in it's place, but generally when you're end game raiding, you can just stick to Endless Rage.

    Foodbuffs For Thought!




    13. Macros


    Spell Interrupt

    #showtooltip Mind Freeze
    /cast Mind Freeze
    /cast Strangulate

    The spell interrupt macro will always fire both spells if CD + ressources are available. It's not a "one or the other" kind of thing. If you ultimately have to make that interrupt, no matter what your range to the target is and what the cost may be then this macro is something you should use.

    Lichborne Cancel Aura Macro

    #showtooltip
    /cancelaura Lichborne (Buff name as in your buff display)
    /cast Lichborne (Skill name as in your skill book)

    Cancel Aura Battle Shout + HoW

    #showtooltip Horn of Winter
    /cancelaura Battle Shout
    /cast Horn of Winter

    A glyphed Battle Shout is 4m duration, while HoW is 3m glyphed.
    This macro is intended to cancel battle shout and then cast HoW, so that you will gain back the 10 RP that it generates.
    You must keep in mind though that this macro will always cancel Battle Shout, even if Horn of Winter is not ready, meaning you may end up having no buff if you time it incorrectly.

    Ghoul Sacrifice

    #showtooltip Death Pact
    /cast Raise Dead
    /cast Death Pact

    Spam the macro to summon your ghoul and almost immediately sacrifice it for the 40% heal (25% heal comes 4.0.3)
    The tooltip (and cooldown) of the sacrifice spell will be used.

    Lichborne Self-Heal-Spam

    #showtooltip Lichborne
    /cast Lichborne
    /cast [@player]Death Coil

    If you spam this macro it will activate Lichborne and then start to spam Death Coil at yourself.
    (Be sure to glyph the death coil heal if you want to do this often to get the most heal out of it)

    Focus-Freeze

    #showtooltip Mind Freeze
    /focus [btn:2]
    /stopmacro [btn:2]
    /cast [@focus,harm,nodead,exists][]Mind Freeze

    1. Right click on the macro will set your current target as focus.
    2. Left click (or using the keybind) will try to cast Mind Freeze at your focus if all of the following conditions are met:
    The focus is an enemy, is not dead and the focus is set.
    Otherwise it will try to cast Mind Freeze at your current target.

    Engineer: Use glove enchant

    #showtooltip Pillar of Frost
    /use 10
    /cast Blood Tap (optional)
    /cast Pillar of Frost

    This will activate your gloves if possible and use Pillar of Frost, the /cast Blood Tap is optional, if you are confident that you will only use Pillar of Frost when all your runes are on CD then put it in, but you may end up wasteing the Blood Tap Cooldown if you already turned your Blood Runes into Death Runes through Blood Strike. If you almost never use Blood Tap to increase your DpS it doesn't matter. Pillar of Frost and the glove enchant have the same cooldown (60s) so they go great together.



    Again thanks to Alcotraz for some of the info, and most of the layout.

    If you find any incorrect or missing information, or anything that is too lacking of information, please let me know!
    Last edited by syonxwf; 2010-11-16 at 10:30 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by nnelson54 View Post
    The lack of rage on my Warrior is something of a paradox. Because everytime I hear, "Need more rage!" I get angrier and angrier, yet my rage bar doesn't fill up any faster.

  2. #2
    I won't comment on most of it just now, but there still is a lot of work to be done.
    a) Formatting:
    - try using some BB code to increase the readability of this guide, otherwise it hurts the eyes and makes it hard to follow at all
    - some paragraphs are messed up, get a general teme and stick to it
    b) Content:
    - If you include macros, check them if they are of any use for frost and be sure to understand them so you can provide information when to use them and how they work
    c) Ugradability:
    - Start collecting your information for a cataclysm update. A guide which information has less than 4 weeks of liability will not likely be needed as sticky.
    - Add some kind of markers in the Guide where stuff is strictly 4.0.1 and where upgrades are needed sooner than later.


    But I also want to contribute some to the guide, e.g. the macro section.
    as I'm a huge fan of /cancelaura and see some potential uses for unholy.

    Example:
    #showtooltip
    /cancelaura Lichborne (Buff name as in your buff display)
    /cast Lichborne (Skill name as in your skill book)

    If you tap the button once, lichborne is activated, if you tap the button while lichborne is active, you will cancel lichborne (useful in PvP when that pesky Paladin tries to fear you or the meanie priests wants to shackle you). Same goes for fast activation and deactivation of Glyphed Pillar of Frost.

    And another comment on the content: Frost is still able to tank, they are no longer able to become uncrittable and have way lower survivability than people using the designated tank tree, blood.

  3. #3
    A lot of this information is quite dated. Check out the Elitist Jerks thread for up to date content. Number one error that I see is that Haste is now a remarkable stat for 2H frost, and Mastery is also quite good. Haste makes your runes refresh faster and auto attacks give you more procs.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Platapus View Post
    A lot of this information is quite dated. Check out the Elitist Jerks thread for up to date content. Number one error that I see is that Haste is now a remarkable stat for 2H frost, and Mastery is also quite good. Haste makes your runes refresh faster and auto attacks give you more procs.
    Bump. Aside from a few formatting errors, this is mostly complete. I will keep working it as I find errors, and will update it as necessary for Cata, and when new information comes up.

    Quote Originally Posted by nnelson54 View Post
    The lack of rage on my Warrior is something of a paradox. Because everytime I hear, "Need more rage!" I get angrier and angrier, yet my rage bar doesn't fill up any faster.

  5. #5
    Here I go again:
    Remove major glyphs (Skills unavailable for Frost):
    * Bone Shield
    * Rune Tap
    * Vampiric Blood
    * Dancing Rune Weapon

    - Bold the questions on the reforge part. (better readability)

    - Gemming: Add links to the gems or mouseover tooltips.

    - Enchanting: Combine [Prof only] with normal enchants and add engineering tinkers to one line.

    - Recommended Professions: Engineering is missing. Nitro Boosts, 22 DpS Saronite Bomb, 48 additional haste on gloves, 23 additional Agility on cloak

    - Consumables: List is broken.


    The Frost Ghoul is not a pet, it's a guardian afaik, so neither @pet in the macro nor pet food will work on them.


    The Ghould Deathcoil should be made into Self Deathcoil:
    #showtooltip
    /cast [modifier:alt,@player]Death Coil;Death Coil

    Alt + Macro = Self Death Coil (heal with Lichborne), normal Macro = Death Coil to target.


    The Spell Interrupt Macro needs clarification on it, it would always use strangulate if a blood/death rune is available so it seems to be a waste of DpS ressources.

    You should always include an explanation to what use the macros are. e.g. No PvE DpS DK would need a CoI+DG Macro, it's just useful in PvP.

  6. #6
    Honestly it looks like you just copy/pasted a huge portion of this straight from Consider's EJ thread.

    [11:50:45] Earthmender Duarn says: Shamanistic healing is a complex art. You can't just chain heal all day.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Foibles View Post
    Honestly it looks like you just copy/pasted a huge portion of this straight from Consider's EJ thread.
    This

  8. #8
    Frost 2H Stat Priority:
    1.Hit Until Cap (8%)
    2.Expertise until cap (200 Rating)
    3.Strength
    4.Mastery
    5.Haste
    6.Crit
    7.Agility
    It's not fully correct. Haste is best start for 2H frost, it's even better then both strength and mastery. The only thing is that it has diminishing returns and at some point it get's worse but still listing it behind str/mastery is not right. When you get to a point when you have 600 haste, it get's worser then mastery. But before that it's a lot better. And when you get 900 haste, you get soft cap and it falls behind strength.

    When you have ulduar gear (ilvl226)+ you should generaly be below 600 haste and gem just for haste. In toc gear (ilvl245+) you should be able to get somewhere around 800 haste maybe even more, gemming pure haste will not alwayes be the best option. And in ICC gear (ilvl264+) you will probably get over 900 haste and you should gem in str/reforge to mastery not haste.
    Last edited by Deviss; 2010-11-13 at 05:31 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Foibles View Post
    Honestly it looks like you just copy/pasted a huge portion of this straight from Consider's EJ thread.
    I've not even looked at his guide. The layout came from Alcotraz's Tank guide, I copied most of his guide and then flavored it for Frost DPS. I checked information from multiple sources, and asked for Alc's permission to use his layout.
    I wouldn't copy and paste someone else's work and call it my own, and I will always give credit where credit is due.
    I will though take a look at his guide and see where the similarities are.

    Edit: Read over his guide. Yes the information is similar, but this is not a copy and paste. When I say the information is similar, that's because if I told you to spec 31/3/2 just to make my information "unique", I wouldn't be giving you a Frost DPS guide. Like I said above, look at Alc's tank post, it will look a lot more like I copied and pasted his guide than anything.
    Last edited by syonxwf; 2010-11-13 at 05:54 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by nnelson54 View Post
    The lack of rage on my Warrior is something of a paradox. Because everytime I hear, "Need more rage!" I get angrier and angrier, yet my rage bar doesn't fill up any faster.

  10. #10
    Haste doesn't have Diminishing Returns, it has a point at which other stats become more valuable. Diminishing Returns are typically restricted to crowd control and tanking stats. You're not actually getting less %haste per point after 900, you just aren't able to use all the haste it provides.That is what we call a soft cap.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Deviss View Post
    It's not fully correct. Haste is best start for 2H frost, it's even better then both strength and mastery. The only thing is that it has diminishing returns and at some point it get's worse but still listing it behind str/mastery is not right. When you get to a point when you have 600 haste, it get's worser then mastery. But before that it's a lot better. And when you get 900 haste, you get soft cap and it falls behind strength.

    When you have ulduar gear (ilvl226)+ you should generaly be below 600 haste and gem just for haste. In toc gear (ilvl245+) you should be able to get somewhere around 800 haste maybe even more, gemming pure haste will not alwayes be the best option. And in ICC gear (ilvl264+) you will probably get over 900 haste and you should gem in str/reforge to mastery not haste.
    Thank you, appreciate the feedback. Quite a few sources had it listed both ways, I personally don't shoot for haste, but I may need to look into whether I should. I will make the change within the guide though, I feel you are right here.

    Quote Originally Posted by nnelson54 View Post
    The lack of rage on my Warrior is something of a paradox. Because everytime I hear, "Need more rage!" I get angrier and angrier, yet my rage bar doesn't fill up any faster.

  12. #12
    Mechagnome Direknyte's Avatar
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    I have to say that you are in error on your stat weights for 2H Frost, your race breakdown is incomplete, your section on Reforging is incorrect due to your assumptions regarding stat weights, your section on Mastery is misleading (those abilities are not granted via Mastery, but are the so-called core abilities you get when choosing Frost as your main spec and thus do not scale with Mastery in any way), and it truly does appear you took many liberties with Consider's post on EJ while not getting the correct information out of it.

    There are some other errors as well, such as your Gemming section listing Relentless, which should not even be in consideration ever, and you should list the gems by spec, as in which gem DW will be looking for and which gems 2H will be looking for because they are different now. You should also mention the conflict that Horn of Winter has with Battle Shout, as if you want to use Horn for RP generation, you will need to make the /cancelaura Battle Shout /cast Horn of Winter macro.

    I will also say in direct opposition to the poster above, that if you are attempting to tank in a Frost spec of any type you are doing it wrong and making a fairly major mess of things for your friends, groups, healers, raids, etc that you may be working with. Just don't do it. Dual Spec only costs 100g now, and there is no excuse to not have a blood build as an offspec if you wish to tank.

    Now, many guides WILL appear similar, as there are only so many ways to present the same information, but putting out blatantly wrong information in a 'guide' is inexcusable and shows a rather serious lack of insight into the class and research on the information you are attempting to present as a whole.

    I would give you a C- for this, as between the difficulty of reading it due to poor formatting and the erroneous information, it indicates a lack of knowledge and a lack of interest in both the Class and the information being presented.

  13. #13
    EJ fanboi much? What's good in copying the last 5 posts that said something against the OP and put them in another post and just add some personal rude rants.

    What's true is:
    - Still some formatting problems (missing line breaks, double line breaks at the wrong places, etc.)
    - Mastery section truely is misleading
    - Stat weighting needs to be upgraded with the 900 haste cap difference for 2h.
    - DW/2h gem split should be added, correct.
    - Good point with Battle Shout, but poorly mashed in the same paragraph with critics on gemming.

    Every DK that switched into frost presence can hold aggro, thus can make NPCs focus on him. If he does it while he optimizes his gear on taking less damage while still keeping the mobs on him, he tanks them. It's the same idea that caster tanks worked off for different bosses. It's nowhere near ideal since it will but a stress on the healer and will definately be impossible in cataclysm dungeons for a lot of months until they are severly outgeared (a 70k crit hurts bad on a 80k HP tank, but doesn't do much on a 350k HP tank that gets healed for 40k every 1.5s). Like you can currently tank almost everything up to 232ish raids in 270+ DpS gear and spec if you get good healers and a bit of luck.
    You are doing it wrong, you shouldn't do it, you gimp yourself and your raid, you will most likely die, it will most likely not possible on 85+ instances and stuff, but at current 80 content it is possible to tank heavily outgeared content pretty easily as frost specced DK.

    The Battle Shout macro he rambled about in a side note is this:
    #showtooltip Horn of Winter
    /cancelaura Battle Shout
    /cast Horn of Winter

    Since a glyphed Battle Shout is 4m duration and HoW is only 3m glyphed you will not be able to override it, thus not be able to use HoW and will lose on the 10 RP it generates. But keep in mind, this macro will always cancel Battle Shout, even if Horn of Winter is not ready so you may end up having no buff if you time it badly. You may also add /cancelaura Horn of Winter between /cancel BS and /cast HoW if you (by some obscure reasoning) do not glyph HoW, because you wouldn't be able to override a 3m HoW with your unglyphed 2m HoW.

    Though, which 4.0.1 races or abilties that have an impact on DpS are missing?

    PS: @OP: No need to include the <script type="text/javascript" src="http://db.mmo-champion.com/tt.js"></script> in your post, it has to be included in the HTML code of the board, which is obviously done here.
    Last edited by Nyanmaru; 2010-11-13 at 06:58 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Direknyte View Post
    I have to say that you are in error on your stat weights for 2H Frost
    Can you elaborate? I have found a multitude of different information, have been told I was wrong with my original stat weights, and now you are saying that my stat weights are wrong again, though they are now as Consider has them in EJ's post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Direknyte View Post
    your race breakdown is incomplete
    I like feedback, as I want to know what Im missing or what everyone would like to see in this, but telling me that it's incomplete isn't giving me anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Direknyte View Post
    your section on Reforging is incorrect due to your assumptions regarding stat weights
    I agree. I needed to change this last night when I changed stat weights, but ran short on time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Direknyte View Post
    your section on Mastery is misleading
    Removed the section that is misleading. I will add it in another more appropriate area.

    Quote Originally Posted by Direknyte View Post
    and it truly does appear you took many liberties with Consider's post on EJ while not getting the correct information out of it.
    Like I said previously, I didn't take anything out of his guide, I didn't even look at it until this morning. I trust what EJ has within their forums though, and changed my stat's to reflect what he has in his guide. I wouldn't take someone else's information and change it purposefully to "make it my own".

    Quote Originally Posted by Direknyte View Post
    There are some other errors as well, such as your Gemming section listing Relentless, which should not even be in consideration ever, and you should list the gems by spec, as in which gem DW will be looking for and which gems 2H will be looking for because they are different now.
    The Relentless gem I agree was incorrect, and I removed it.
    I will add the gem split as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Direknyte View Post
    You should also mention the conflict that Horn of Winter has with Battle Shout, as if you want to use Horn for RP generation, you will need to make the /cancelaura Battle Shout /cast Horn of Winter macro.
    Excellent idea, I will add that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Direknyte View Post
    Now, many guides WILL appear similar, as there are only so many ways to present the same information, but putting out blatantly wrong information in a 'guide' is inexcusable and shows a rather serious lack of insight into the class and research on the information you are attempting to present as a whole.
    I would never intentionally mislead anyone, and I do not claim myself to be an expert, hence why I asked for feedback. I appreciate all the feedback I have received, and have implemented it into the "guide" as I have received it. I may not have researched enough, and that is a mistake I wont make again, but when you have so many sources claiming to be correct, and everyone saying that each one is incorrect, it makes it hard to decipher who really has the correct information.

    Quote Originally Posted by Direknyte View Post
    I would give you a C- for this, as between the difficulty of reading it due to poor formatting and the erroneous information, it indicates a lack of knowledge and a lack of interest in both the Class and the information being presented.
    It has come a long way from my original post, as I didn't know any bb until I was informed I should probably add some. This was just a stupid noob mistake on my part, and should have thought better. I don't feel it is horribly difficult to read, it has a table of contents so you can f5 jump to anywhere you want very easily, each section is formatted to help it stand out in what I feel are appropriate places. Do you have any suggestions as to what sections are not formatted in a readable way, or any other suggestions for readability? I need others opinions, otherwise I don't know what is wanted.

    Finally, I think it's pretty shitty that you blame this on a "lack of knowledge and a lack of interest" in the class. It's more of a, I've never done this before and like to learn the hard way . I would appreciate any other feedback.

    Quote Originally Posted by nnelson54 View Post
    The lack of rage on my Warrior is something of a paradox. Because everytime I hear, "Need more rage!" I get angrier and angrier, yet my rage bar doesn't fill up any faster.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by syonxwf View Post
    Alliance

    Human/Draenei – +3 expertise in Maces, Swords will allow humans to dish out more damage, Draenei will get +1% to hit and that buff goes to others as well, close tie here.
    The Draenei is incorrect. This no longer goes between everyone else it is just for the Draenei themselves. This may be a bug but I just tested to make sure I wasn't blowing smoke but it only counts for the player only.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by swiftsaint View Post
    The Draenei is incorrect. This no longer goes between everyone else it is just for the Draenei themselves. This may be a bug but I just tested to make sure I wasn't blowing smoke but it only counts for the player only.
    You are correct, this is an error on my part. it has been removed.

    Quote Originally Posted by nnelson54 View Post
    The lack of rage on my Warrior is something of a paradox. Because everytime I hear, "Need more rage!" I get angrier and angrier, yet my rage bar doesn't fill up any faster.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by syonxwf View Post
    You are correct, this is an error on my part. it has been removed.
    XD just letting you know so people dont expect and then are like wtf

  18. #18
    If you can keep this updated and it meets the expectations of the rest of the DK community, I'll award this a sticky. My guide is extremely outdated and I've just been waiting for either Cata or good user made guides to pop up before I unsticky mine and let it fall into the abyss that is page 2. If somebody else thinks they can make a better one than Syonxwf feel free to do so. On that note I'm also looking for a good Unholy guide to sticky. Consider's guides are fantastic, but I prefer having a good one in this forum that people can reply to more freely.

  19. #19
    Made a bunch of changes today to the formatting, as well as adding a bunch of mouseover tooltips. I am still not finished, but please give me an idea of what else you guys would like to see included. I still have a lot to add, but thanks to all the welcome feedback, this is getting much closer.

    I also will be starting to add information for cata as soon as I get finished with the bulk of the guide.

    Quote Originally Posted by nnelson54 View Post
    The lack of rage on my Warrior is something of a paradox. Because everytime I hear, "Need more rage!" I get angrier and angrier, yet my rage bar doesn't fill up any faster.

  20. #20
    I just noticed your AoE priority seems somewhat lacking. You don't make Blood Runes to Death Runes?

    My basic idea would be:
    1. Big AoE damage (HB + DnD)
    2. Convert Death Runes (more HB spam)
    3. Proc Runic Empowerment
    4. extra RP from HoW if free GCD

    I'd start with this:
    HB-DnD-BS-HB-BS-FS
    Ignoring unholy runes except for DnD so my RE procs all proc FDB runes and aren't wasted on UH runes.

    Though, I dunno if those 10 RP from PS and the damage of BP (pestilenced) are worth the potential loss of RE procs on runes for HB.
    Haven't done the numbers and kinda don't want to either, I'm no frost DpS :P

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