Evang / Archangel terrible for PvP?

[Tokas]

tbh I don't like em PvE just as much

[sicness]

It benefits priests as they're one of the more offensive healers in pvp, especially with the attonement talent. You don't have to stack it to 5 every time to get a return on it, it returns decent mana with a single stack and you should be using archangel on cool down because of it.

[Ansa]

The thing is that your not going to go off on the side of the fight and start spamming Smite/Mind Spike into a target that isnt being focused by your partner and your the only income of dps on that target. Thats not how Discs dps, they controll the fight up until its time to lay down some burst. Thats when they increase the burst by adding some of their own once their partner has initiated
The game hasnt gone live yet but we might be in for a lot of Mana Burn > DPS, which will cause a lot of changes since then all other healers would be at a disadvantage

Ofc Cata will be different, and Im looking forward to a mixture between Wrath and TBC arena
And not be, oh I got targeted, dead... Oh well

[Deleted]

Have any of you actually done any competitive arenas as a priest this entire expansion? Disc was played as a DPS / Pseudo healer for the majority of comps... Any 2s team you essentially were constantly doing damage, while keeping a shield up, and healing with Mending and Pennance, maybe a flash heal if things were getting really rough. Many times you'd put up a mending, then put up a PW: S, pennance then flash heal at the end of the channel so both got the benefit of borrowed time, and that was all the healing you'd be doing on that target for a fair bit of time.

Priest / Mage or Priest / Rogue 2v2s I was ALWAYS doing at least 75% of the damage of my partner, and in many cases doing MORE damage. Dispel cleave, RMP, did extremely well when the priest was super offensive. The pvp applications for this spell are perfect. You play extremely aggressive, do a lot of damage, keep up shields, and when you actually need to heal, you pop archangel, and you now have extra healing for the short duration that you are actually going to heal.

The only issue I currently see on beta atm is that priest absorbs, and healing are so low relative to the other healers that it is extremely hard to keep up by using this play style. This is no indication that the play style itself wont work, its simply a testament to how in the gutter disc currently is.

When was 2v2 changed??? Never knew you could get glad again in 2's. That change must have flew right over my head...

Even in two's this is a dumb talent. But no-one with the desire to play on a real competitive level would care much how effective this shit is in two's anyway.

[Goliethlol]

Cataclysm is not Wrath. If you want offense don't worry about Smite. Worry about Mind Spike. Just don't go in expecting to post damage:healing ratios like you did in Wrath. If you go in with that in mind you're going to get stomped on. If you think a PoM + PW:S is going to be enough good luck. Even if Shields were doing something like 30k absorbs they'd disappear instantly to dispels. No more junk buffs, no more dispel protection. It's not 'when you actually need to heal', but 'you need to heal' at 85.

I already addressed this with my previous post... I said that the way priests are currently on the beta does not allow for this type of play style, because priests are not performing well enough relative to the other healers. Their mana regeneration, healing output and absorption mechanics are such that you cant get away with the type of play you could in wrath. Your healing output is extremely low compared to the other healers, and priest mana efficiency is laughable. Archangel is actually a way to address the mana inefficiency, but because of how weak our healing output is, and how underwhelming our absorb mechanics are, you cant effectively use archangel. This much I will not disagree with.

Now here is the important part. This is not to say that the play style wont work, or that priests should not be played in this manor, but rather that priests as a pvp healer are too awful to make any type of real conclusion.

The argument of the initial post was that Evangelism and Archangel have no use in PVP. My counter argument to that was essentially this: if you were to look at how priests were played in Wrath, it fits perfectly into the priest play style. An aggressive offensive healer that relies mainly on absorption mechanics and instant spells to keep people alive, and then burst heal when necessary. Assuming they fix priests and they are viable as a pvp healer, then one could safely assume that the Wrath play style would translate well into wrath, in which case Evangelism and Archangel would synergize perfectly with a pvp disc priest.

What Harky said. Cataclysm isn't Wrath, in the same way that Wrath wasn't TBC.

I can't begin to count the number of teams I faced on beta that had healers who still spammed flash heal (or their equivalent) and went oom halfway through the match while I was at 50% mana and trying to use heal wherever I possibly could.

The point of that story ? You have to adapt to the new playstyle, not continue playing like you were the previous expansion. That just won't get you anywhere.

I will agree with this to an extent. Priests changed their play style from TBC to Wrath based on their new abilities. However, the mentality of a priest (that of an offensive pvp healer) stayed the same. In TBC priests were also very offensive with both dispels and damage (and casting holy fire and, zomg, smite).

So, while priest gameplay will certainly change from Wrath to Cata, it will be based on their new abilities. However, the generalized theme or mentality of a pvp priest as being an aggressive, offensive healer, will stay the same.

[Ttam]

The Shadow Envangelism is stackable easily, but the Smite Evangelism is near impossible to stack with how hard it currently is for priests to keep someone alive.

[Goliethlol]

When was 2v2 changed??? Never knew you could get glad again in 2's. That change must have flew right over my head...

Even in two's this is a dumb talent. But no-one with the desire to play on a real competitive level would care much how effective this shit is in two's anyway.

It wasn't until season 7 that you couldn't get glad in 2s... Secondly, I didn't say that the aggressive priest play style was specific to 2v2. I mentioned two comps in 3s where the priest should play aggressively in order to maximize the comps effectiveness. 5v5's in Wrath were no different... I simply used 2v2 as an example to illustrate my point...

[PlatedPriest]

honestly i really dont think we will know for sure how viable evanglism will be untill 2weeks after cata....cause it could swing either way. with that new buff to our base healing that +15% from archangel might be worth the ramp up....but who knows

[Bigslick]

honestly i really dont think we will know for sure how viable evanglism will be untill 2weeks after cata....cause it could swing either way. with that new buff to our base healing that +15% from archangel might be worth the ramp up....but who knows

The new buff to base healing pn many of our cast spells makes Atonement less viable as a direct healing tool, and if you're feeling so little pressure to heal that you're able to Smite your way to 5 stacks of Evangelism, odds are you really don't need that 15% then anyway.