Thread: Low level PVP

  1. #1

    Low level PVP

    I leveled my MM (now Survival) hunter pvp-specced to currently level 66. I have a strong belief that hunters are extremely good (read: OP) at low level pvp all the way through and this has been proven true through all the BG's i've done. I've dominated my fair share of BGs.

    My question is as follows:

    I've found ways to counter most classes with the skills i have but i'm still puzzled how i can counter a (post-4.0) sub rogue. If i happen to survive the initial ambush, i try to drop a trap, freeze him to proc lock and load, and kite as best as i can and it works out well if that's the case, but about 80-90% of the time, its near impossible to survive the initial ambush which hits me for about 6-7k while i currently have about 7.5k hp at 66.

    Is this the intended build? If so, can someone give some suggestions how i can counter them better?

    I'd also point out that i do have max engineering so i have bombs, rocket boots, and all that jazz.

  2. #2
    Deleted
    Try scattershot+trap, them kite.
    If the rogue opened with shadowstep to get the extra damage, he will be nearly helptess at this time. (Save for insignia + sprint)
    If not, shadowstep+mutilate should seal the deal... nothing you can do.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Envar View Post
    Try scattershot+trap, them kite.
    If the rogue opened with shadowstep to get the extra damage, he will be nearly helptess at this time. (Save for insignia + sprint)
    If not, shadowstep+mutilate should seal the deal... nothing you can do.
    You can't have Shadowstep and Mutilate...

  4. #4
    Deleted
    Sorry, low level pvp is retarded atm. Just don't do it.

    Oh unless you have a rogue.

  5. #5
    Deleted
    blizzard is clueless about low level pvp.

    -Hunters do not need disengage at level 14 come cataclysm.
    -Warriors need intercept earlier than level 72.
    -Warriors need hamstring before level 26, infact they need much more utility, they are consitently behind other classes in utility.
    -Paladins need gap closers/HoF before mid level.

    I could go on, but blizzard wont read this anyway.

    Please blizzard let us help you

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by grimmymac View Post
    I leveled my MM (now Survival) hunter pvp-specced to currently level 66. I have a strong belief that hunters are extremely good (read: OP) at low level pvp all the way through and this has been proven true through all the BG's i've done. I've dominated my fair share of BGs.

    My question is as follows:

    I've found ways to counter most classes with the skills i have but i'm still puzzled how i can counter a (post-4.0) sub rogue. If i happen to survive the initial ambush, i try to drop a trap, freeze him to proc lock and load, and kite as best as i can and it works out well if that's the case, but about 80-90% of the time, its near impossible to survive the initial ambush which hits me for about 6-7k while i currently have about 7.5k hp at 66.

    Is this the intended build? If so, can someone give some suggestions how i can counter them better?

    I'd also point out that i do have max engineering so i have bombs, rocket boots, and all that jazz.
    As of right now, low levels and 80, Hunters have a difficult time countering a good Rogue. The Rogue has more gap closers than the Hunter has traps / Disengage.

    Your best bet is to try to stay alert, and take the rogue out of stealth before he opens if he's that bad, and at that point you can control the match with Hunter's Mark, Serpent Sting, and kiting.

    Because Rogues can basically open with Premeditation -> Ambush -> 4 CP Eviscerate, which with current imbalance would take most classes out within 1 GCD, you'll need deterrence out ASAP, and then combo a trap in there and run out of range. And you must get Hunter's Mark or Marked for Death (If your'e MM) on the Rogue ASAP, because it'll force them to blow Cloak of Shadows if they want to vanish and re-open within a period longer than 3 or 5 Seconds (Vanish gives 3 seconds unbreakable stealth, 5 glyphed). Also, if you can, get a bleed on the Rogue with your pet (If applicable) or any ability you may have (Not sure if MM still has it), as Cloak of Shadows will not remove bleed effects.

    You've got rocket boots, those will be your best friend to escape a rogue (Ice Trap -> Clear slows with Master's Call if necessary -> Rocket Boots... And make sure they've popped Shadowstep before you do this). Unfortunately, you most likely will need to pop multiple cooldowns at once in various combonations to escape.

    TL;DR -- Combining your cooldowns / traps / engi items is your best friend when playing against a rogue, and if you can live through or counter their opening rotation sequence (Ambush, Cheap Shot, etc.) and avoid letting the Rogue control the match (They're a control-based class), then you have a fair shot and killing them.

    PS -- Rogues need to play a bit smarter at 80 and higher levels, they cant kill people within 1 GCD at 80.
    Last edited by Lawlocoptor; 2010-11-14 at 06:23 PM. Reason: PS

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawlocoptor View Post
    As of right now, low levels and 80, Hunters have a difficult time countering a good Rogue. The Rogue has more gap closers than the Hunter has traps / Disengage.

    Your best bet is to try to stay alert, and take the rogue out of stealth before he opens if he's that bad, and at that point you can control the match with Hunter's Mark, Serpent Sting, and kiting.

    Because Rogues can basically open with Premeditation -> Ambush -> 4 CP Eviscerate, which with current imbalance would take most classes out within 1 GCD, you'll need deterrence out ASAP, and then combo a trap in there and run out of range. And you must get Hunter's Mark or Marked for Death (If your'e MM) on the Rogue ASAP, because it'll force them to blow Cloak of Shadows if they want to vanish and re-open within a period longer than 3 or 5 Seconds (Vanish gives 3 seconds unbreakable stealth, 5 glyphed). Also, if you can, get a bleed on the Rogue with your pet (If applicable) or any ability you may have (Not sure if MM still has it), as Cloak of Shadows will not remove bleed effects.

    You've got rocket boots, those will be your best friend to escape a rogue (Ice Trap -> Clear slows with Master's Call if necessary -> Rocket Boots... And make sure they've popped Shadowstep before you do this). Unfortunately, you most likely will need to pop multiple cooldowns at once in various combonations to escape.

    TL;DR -- Combining your cooldowns / traps / engi items is your best friend when playing against a rogue, and if you can live through or counter their opening rotation sequence (Ambush, Cheap Shot, etc.) and avoid letting the Rogue control the match (They're a control-based class), then you have a fair shot and killing them.

    PS -- Rogues need to play a bit smarter at 80 and higher levels, they cant kill people within 1 GCD at 80.

    Yea i've been doing all that stuff, its just that there are CDs on tricket, rocketboots, deterrance, traps, and flares. Just that most of the time after i happen to take out a rogue (feels good btw) my stuff would be on CD so i'd get owned again.


    Another note, disengage is now a level 78 ability. They pretty much switched out deterrance for disengage come patch 4.0

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by grimmymac View Post
    Yea i've been doing all that stuff, its just that there are CDs on tricket, rocketboots, deterrance, traps, and flares. Just that most of the time after i happen to take out a rogue (feels good btw) my stuff would be on CD so i'd get owned again.


    Another note, disengage is now a level 78 ability. They pretty much switched out deterrance for disengage come patch 4.0
    Yep, CD's are cooldowns, and theres a HUGE amount of rogues being leveled up as of right now simply because they're so OP in low level BG's. Having dueled my friend's Hunter on my Rogue, i can tell you that he usually needs to throw everything at me to control me. However, Rogues are in the same position that they need to use a majority of their CD's to gain the upper hand / control in a 1v1.

    That being said though (slightly contradictory to the first paragraph) if you find yourself running out of CD's very early, work on your CD management, and try and counter each ability as they use it, maximizing the effect of each one, while using just enough CD's to get the job done. I used to run into that on my Rogue where I'd pop everything I had in a BG / Arena within the first minuite or so and find myself stuck and globaled soon after. Rogue Vs. Hunter has been one of the classic match-ups since Vanilla, being the only class besides Druids with Farie Fire that could counter Stealth. Don't forget it'll get better when you have Aspect of the Fox.

    On disengage being level 78, Blizzard screwed up on that in my humble opinion, Hunters need that earlier to help counter the other classes with charges / blinks.
    Last edited by Lawlocoptor; 2010-11-14 at 10:59 PM.

  9. #9
    Low level pvp is very unbalanced at this point in time. There are specific classes that can do extremely well without any real effort being made. The main three that I have seen in my low level pvping was Rogues, Hunters, Priest, and Arcane Mages. In the teen brackets all four of these classes can pretty much just one-shot, faceroll almost any class that they get their hands on. Rogues are able to one shot people even if they start out of stealth, which is ridiculous if you ask me. I only say Priests because you can practically be one-shotted by a penance. The other two classes are pretty self-explanatory on how they can easily faceroll in low level pvp brackets.

  10. #10
    I think I'll miss the 39 bracket of old, used to be a good time on Rampage.

  11. #11
    High Overlord lawlpoo's Avatar
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    Get to level 80. End of discussion.

  12. #12
    Normal pvp is broken in low level as there is no way you survive the damage of shs ambush or rampage without being twinked. Twink BG on the other hand are more interesting than ever and @19 with 1k5 life you can take this ambush and punish the rogue (unless he sucks and jump on low life targets like 80% of sub rogues nowadays)

  13. #13
    lower level pvp got screwed over when rogues got a ton of ambush talents in the early trees of sub. Pvp isn't worth it as any other class unless you are in the x7-x9(replace x with tenth number), other than that it isn't worth it because you are targetted by higher levels and rogues making you an easy kill.

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