Poll: Best Rogue Dps Spec in the clysm?

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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Fastlane_hellscream View Post
    combat being roughly 3% below assassination in damage at 85 at the moment...It's a stretch to call it sub par I think.

    ---------- Post added 2010-12-02 at 03:54 PM ----------

    http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t110016-...fo_11_30_10_a/

    feel free to check it out yourself. It's in the first part of that guide.
    sub par meaning...assassination is the par, combat is below it by 3% so its subpar.

    but yes my example of a enh shaman in vanilla and a combat rogue in cata is a bit different, namely cuz it was a lot more then 3%.

  2. #42
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by AedanWolfe View Post
    sub par meaning...assassination is the par, combat is below it by 3% so its subpar.
    No, that doesn't make combat a worse spec, not subpar either. If you read what Aldriana said, combat is higher dps 35%<, then assassination catches up because of backstab spamming. The difference on a very static fight is around 3% to assassinations favor, but based on the nature of the encounter this will vary a lot

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by sagan-man View Post
    No, that doesn't make combat a worse spec, not subpar either. If you read what Aldriana said, combat is higher dps 35%<, then assassination catches up because of backstab spamming. The difference on a very static fight is around 3% to assassinations favor, but based on the nature of the encounter this will vary a lot
    ok, so its subpar on a very static fight.

    but yes, i dont think there are many static fights in cata, not from what ive seen at least.

  4. #44
    Sure combat is a bit behind at present, due to some shitty mechanics (that might get hot-fixed, we'll see) but imo good combat rogues will find the extra damage (3% apparently) and still be able to compete against ,or even beat, most average/bad assasination rogues.
    Bad combat rogues will be left in the dust, and will need to re-spec to assasination to stay competitive .
    The damage difference is not so huge between assasination and combat that a skilled combat rogue can't make up the deficit....

    either way, I still think play the spec you like the best, or at least that favours your gear......

    I'll be sticking with combat, for now......at least while I level. I'll re-assess at 85 after raiding starts again
    Last edited by Morbash; 2010-12-02 at 10:54 PM.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Morbash View Post
    Sure combat is a bit behind at present, due to some shitty mechanics (that might get hot-fixed, we'll see) but imo good combat rogues will find the extra damage and still be able to compete against ,or even beat, most average/bad assasination rogues.
    Bad combat rogues will be left in the dust, and will need to re-spec to assasination to stay competitive .
    The damage difference is not so huge between assasination and combat that a skilled combat rogue can't make up the deficit....

    either way, I still think play the spec you like the best, or at least that favours your gear......
    In my opinion, the difference between the specs is only relevant to the encounter design, to an extent, and whether or not you are up against the enrage timer. It's only a 3% difference, which is about 500 DPS if Rogues will pull 15k DPS in Tier 11, (Theoretically) anyway, so I wouldn't let it get between you and your favourite spec. And, as you said, player skill will blur that difference anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it. Subtlety is going to need a buff (Or have it's rotation made relevant to it's damage) in order to become mainstream outside those who simply like to play it, since there's at least a 10% theoretical difference. But, again, I don't think it will make a huge difference in most guilds, unless you are up against the enrage timer or are in a guild looking at World 50 kills.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Synexlol View Post
    But, again, I don't think it will make a huge difference in most guilds, unless you are up against the enrage timer or are in a guild looking at World 50 kills.
    ^^ this

  7. #47
    Well this is my build for mutilate, I made it in about 2-3 minutes. http://www.wowhead.com/talent#fcIf0sGzoGo0bZ0h
    when i was still combat i tried this build - http://www.wowhead.com/talent#f0hZfGccRc0RGo0b
    when i tried out sub - http://www.wowhead.com/talent#f0hZ0oZcGcfdu0RGo
    all pve.
    Laugh people, laugh as I close the curtains.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Monorobot View Post
    Well this is my build for mutilate, I made it in about 2-3 minutes. http://www.wowhead.com/talent#fcIf0sGzoGo0bZ0h
    when i was still combat i tried this build - http://www.wowhead.com/talent#f0hZfGccRc0RGo0b
    when i tried out sub - http://www.wowhead.com/talent#f0hZ0oZcGcfdu0RGo
    all pve.
    take two points out of deadened and put it in murderous intent. for the assassination spec, assassination gets one point to play with that is pretty much choice, everything else is good though.

  9. #49
    Deleted
    Combat was terrible in Naxx and it came back strong in middle tiers of xpac same thing looks like its repeating itself so get the daggers on and go pewpew and thank the rogue gods you dont have to just spam envenom all day long for Muti anymore :P

  10. #50
    Deleted
    If I had to pick a tree, I'd say Assassination, but Combat isn't too far behind. Above 35% Combat does somewhat (~2%) more DPS, but once you get below 35% and Murderous Intent kicks in, Assassination jumps significantly (~15%) ahead.
    Some further input by Aldriana

  11. #51
    Deleted
    It might not be too far behind in mathematical modelling perhaps, but when you actually get into a raid situation and are frantically hammering buttons to try and prevent energy capping whilst also struggling to barely remain alive then I suspect for the majority it's going to be a clearcut choice, unless you are some form of sado-masochist.

    Combat should be 3% ahead overall, simple as that, not the other way around. Then, at least, it would be more bearable because you'd not be under pressure to play optimally every second of the fight just to stay in touch with Mutilate and other classes.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Vital View Post
    It might not be too far behind in mathematical modelling perhaps, but when you actually get into a raid situation and are frantically hammering buttons to try and prevent energy capping whilst also struggling to barely remain alive then I suspect for the majority it's going to be a clearcut choice, unless you are some form of sado-masochist.

    Combat should be 3% ahead overall, simple as that, not the other way around. Then, at least, it would be more bearable because you'd not be under pressure to play optimally every second of the fight just to stay in touch with Mutilate and other classes.
    The reason actual results with combat will probably differ most from that modeling is not the frantic hammering of buttons as the numbers clearly show messing up and accidentally using another evis or SS instead of rupture and RvS won't matter all that much. However, most fights aren't patchwerk. The model they are using is essentially assuming straight up dps time. When you can't do that, you can extremely easily get screwed by BG.

    I do agree that to really balance it, combat should be ahead slightly on patchwerk fights because mut would still end up ahead on any fight where you have to switch off.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    The reason actual results with combat will probably differ most from that modeling is not the frantic hammering of buttons as the numbers clearly show messing up and accidentally using another evis or SS instead of rupture and RvS won't matter all that much. However, most fights aren't patchwerk. The model they are using is essentially assuming straight up dps time. When you can't do that, you can extremely easily get screwed by BG.

    I do agree that to really balance it, combat should be ahead slightly on patchwerk fights because mut would still end up ahead on any fight where you have to switch off.
    id be more for fixing bandits guile, it holds far too much dps for punishing so hard on switching targets.

  14. #54
    Deleted
    Well I wouldn't argue with that, with the buffed BG it's obviously going to be the main factor in whether Combat does decent dps or not. However Aldriana did say that the difference between the old and new rotation is ~2%, so I'm happy to consider that 2% as what you might lose if you didn't get the new rotation spot on in a difficult encounter because of the added complexity and energy spam etc. so already we are looking at 5% behind Mutilate without even considering whether it's a Patchwerk type fight or not in which case it could fall even further behind.

    If you look at the current WoL logs Assa is setting new Rogue records since 4.0.3a where as Combat the top entry for Saurfang is still from months back. All I'm trying to say is that Combat is still in a pretty bad place and people shouldn't think everything is suddenly going to be perfect.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by AedanWolfe View Post
    id be more for fixing bandits guile, it holds far too much dps for punishing so hard on switching targets.
    As would I. I absolutely hate that their master plan to fix combat damage was to double BG.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vital View Post
    Well I wouldn't argue with that, with the buffed BG it's obviously going to be the main factor in whether Combat does decent dps or not. However Aldriana did say that the difference between the old and new rotation is ~2%, so I'm happy to consider that 2% as what you might lose if you didn't get the new rotation spot on in a difficult encounter because of the added complexity and energy spam etc. so already we are looking at 5% behind Mutilate without even considering whether it's a Patchwerk type fight or not in which case it could fall even further behind.
    Oh I see your point. I just meant that to me, what is most bothering isn't that as combat I would be slightly behind (be it 3 or 5%) but that due to fight mechanics, as combat I could end up perhaps falling as far as sub.
    Last edited by Sesshou; 2010-12-04 at 12:37 AM.

  16. #56
    If they dont want to change combat mechanics that much a quick fix would be to shorten BG ramp up time to something like 2-3 SS only. I will probably go with combat in cata and hope that we get some better fixes than in the last patch.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Avengerx View Post
    If they dont want to change combat mechanics that much a quick fix would be to shorten BG ramp up time to something like 2-3 SS only. I will probably go with combat in cata and hope that we get some better fixes than in the last patch.
    I think the best way to look at is average time to ramp up its damage. like how DK's need both diseases up and assassination relies on the damage from 5dp stack more then combat does.

    I do think bandits guile takes too long, and allowing it to happen more quickly would alleviate this problem.

    though there is still the issue of main gauche being a bit backasswards which i guess isnt so much a issue with dps but mechanics and scaling.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Lance Omikron View Post
    No matter what the "best" spec turns out to be, I'm gonna be sticking with combat.
    this.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Avengerx View Post
    If they dont want to change combat mechanics that much a quick fix would be to shorten BG ramp up time to something like 2-3 SS only. I will probably go with combat in cata and hope that we get some better fixes than in the last patch.
    Well the ramp up fine would be just fine if it didn't reset if you hit a new mob.

  20. #60
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    assassination will most definitely be the best raiding spec, simply has all the talents / mastery / mastery scaling to make it better than the others

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