No, that doesn't make combat a worse spec, not subpar either. If you read what Aldriana said, combat is higher dps 35%<, then assassination catches up because of backstab spamming. The difference on a very static fight is around 3% to assassinations favor, but based on the nature of the encounter this will vary a lot
Sure combat is a bit behind at present, due to some shitty mechanics (that might get hot-fixed, we'll see) but imo good combat rogues will find the extra damage (3% apparently) and still be able to compete against ,or even beat, most average/bad assasination rogues.
Bad combat rogues will be left in the dust, and will need to re-spec to assasination to stay competitive .
The damage difference is not so huge between assasination and combat that a skilled combat rogue can't make up the deficit....
either way, I still think play the spec you like the best, or at least that favours your gear......
I'll be sticking with combat, for now......at least while I level. I'll re-assess at 85 after raiding starts again
Last edited by Morbash; 2010-12-02 at 10:54 PM.
In my opinion, the difference between the specs is only relevant to the encounter design, to an extent, and whether or not you are up against the enrage timer. It's only a 3% difference, which is about 500 DPS if Rogues will pull 15k DPS in Tier 11, (Theoretically) anyway, so I wouldn't let it get between you and your favourite spec. And, as you said, player skill will blur that difference anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it. Subtlety is going to need a buff (Or have it's rotation made relevant to it's damage) in order to become mainstream outside those who simply like to play it, since there's at least a 10% theoretical difference. But, again, I don't think it will make a huge difference in most guilds, unless you are up against the enrage timer or are in a guild looking at World 50 kills.
Well this is my build for mutilate, I made it in about 2-3 minutes. http://www.wowhead.com/talent#fcIf0sGzoGo0bZ0h
when i was still combat i tried this build - http://www.wowhead.com/talent#f0hZfGccRc0RGo0b
when i tried out sub - http://www.wowhead.com/talent#f0hZ0oZcGcfdu0RGo
all pve.
Laugh people, laugh as I close the curtains.
Combat was terrible in Naxx and it came back strong in middle tiers of xpac same thing looks like its repeating itself so get the daggers on and go pewpew and thank the rogue gods you dont have to just spam envenom all day long for Muti anymore :P
Some further input by AldrianaIf I had to pick a tree, I'd say Assassination, but Combat isn't too far behind. Above 35% Combat does somewhat (~2%) more DPS, but once you get below 35% and Murderous Intent kicks in, Assassination jumps significantly (~15%) ahead.
It might not be too far behind in mathematical modelling perhaps, but when you actually get into a raid situation and are frantically hammering buttons to try and prevent energy capping whilst also struggling to barely remain alive then I suspect for the majority it's going to be a clearcut choice, unless you are some form of sado-masochist.
Combat should be 3% ahead overall, simple as that, not the other way around. Then, at least, it would be more bearable because you'd not be under pressure to play optimally every second of the fight just to stay in touch with Mutilate and other classes.
The reason actual results with combat will probably differ most from that modeling is not the frantic hammering of buttons as the numbers clearly show messing up and accidentally using another evis or SS instead of rupture and RvS won't matter all that much. However, most fights aren't patchwerk. The model they are using is essentially assuming straight up dps time. When you can't do that, you can extremely easily get screwed by BG.
I do agree that to really balance it, combat should be ahead slightly on patchwerk fights because mut would still end up ahead on any fight where you have to switch off.
Well I wouldn't argue with that, with the buffed BG it's obviously going to be the main factor in whether Combat does decent dps or not. However Aldriana did say that the difference between the old and new rotation is ~2%, so I'm happy to consider that 2% as what you might lose if you didn't get the new rotation spot on in a difficult encounter because of the added complexity and energy spam etc. so already we are looking at 5% behind Mutilate without even considering whether it's a Patchwerk type fight or not in which case it could fall even further behind.
If you look at the current WoL logs Assa is setting new Rogue records since 4.0.3a where as Combat the top entry for Saurfang is still from months back. All I'm trying to say is that Combat is still in a pretty bad place and people shouldn't think everything is suddenly going to be perfect.
As would I. I absolutely hate that their master plan to fix combat damage was to double BG.
Oh I see your point. I just meant that to me, what is most bothering isn't that as combat I would be slightly behind (be it 3 or 5%) but that due to fight mechanics, as combat I could end up perhaps falling as far as sub.
Last edited by Sesshou; 2010-12-04 at 12:37 AM.
If they dont want to change combat mechanics that much a quick fix would be to shorten BG ramp up time to something like 2-3 SS only. I will probably go with combat in cata and hope that we get some better fixes than in the last patch.
I think the best way to look at is average time to ramp up its damage. like how DK's need both diseases up and assassination relies on the damage from 5dp stack more then combat does.
I do think bandits guile takes too long, and allowing it to happen more quickly would alleviate this problem.
though there is still the issue of main gauche being a bit backasswards which i guess isnt so much a issue with dps but mechanics and scaling.
assassination will most definitely be the best raiding spec, simply has all the talents / mastery / mastery scaling to make it better than the others