Stacked all haste dps went up 1k

[LCDArcade]

So I decided to test something so I stacked almost all haste gems. My dps in unholy and DW frost went up 1k from what I usually did. You guys should try it. Im gonna get stack some dragon's eye haste. Tell me what you think.

[GuyWithFace]

So, what, you replaced all of your Strength gems with Haste? If so, and if that yielded a 1k DPS increase, you need to give us specifics, because as it stands right now, Strength is about 3.5% more valuable than haste(and even moreso than other stats).

If it was on target dummies... Dummy DPS doesn't count for ANYTHING.

You didn't even state how much DPS you were doing before, with what gems/stats/buffs/ANYTHING.

Even ignoring that Strength is more valuable than Haste, I don't see how stacking it would increase your DPS. Unholy is nearly GCD capped as-is, and DW Frost is capped no matter how you slice it. More haste would simply mean that you're generating runes faster than you can use them, which would be a DPS LOSS, not gain.

TL;DR: Give us specifics.

[LCDArcade]

So, what, you replaced all of your Strength gems with Haste? If so, and if that yielded a 1k DPS increase, you need to give us specifics, because as it stands right now, Strength is about 3.5x more valuable than haste(and even moreso than other stats).

If it was on target dummies... Dummy DPS doesn't count for ANYTHING.

You didn't even state how much DPS you were doing before, with what gems/stats/buffs/ANYTHING.

Even ignoring that Strength is far more valuable than Haste, I don't see how stacking it would increase your DPS. Unholy is nearly GCD capped as-is, and DW Frost is capped no matter how you slice it. More haste would simply mean that you're generating runes faster than you can use them, which would be a DPS LOSS, not gain.

TL;DR: Give us specifics.

Stacking strength I did 8k on Heroic dummy. Stacking haste I did 9.1k sustained. Faster rune regen means I get to use more hard hitting attacks like obliterate instead of frost strike.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...C3%90%C3%A6kon

[Deathquoi]

I stacked all stamina and my DPS went up eleventy billion percent.

[Nyanmaru]

So, what, you replaced all of your Strength gems with Haste? If so, and if that yielded a 1k DPS increase, you need to give us specifics, because as it stands right now, Strength is about 3.5x more valuable than haste(and even moreso than other stats).

Last time I checked, the difference was like 5% for Strength over Haste for unholy DpS.
IIRC 2h Frost gets more DpS out of Haste than of Strength (up to a point of ~900 haste where strength/mastery slowly catch up).
Just DW Frost has like slightly below 15% more benefit from Strength over Haste.

This info may be outdated, it's at least 10 days since I last checked and I believe these stats weights were made under the assumption of top tier raiding gear. So with lower level gear the difference may change.

Strength is nearly always better, but nowhere near "3.5x more valuable".

[Nangz]

So, what, you replaced all of your Strength gems with Haste? If so, and if that yielded a 1k DPS increase, you need to give us specifics, because as it stands right now, Strength is about 3.5x more valuable than haste(and even moreso than other stats).

If it was on target dummies... Dummy DPS doesn't count for ANYTHING.

You didn't even state how much DPS you were doing before, with what gems/stats/buffs/ANYTHING.

Even ignoring that Strength is far more valuable than Haste, I don't see how stacking it would increase your DPS. Unholy is nearly GCD capped as-is, and DW Frost is capped no matter how you slice it. More haste would simply mean that you're generating runes faster than you can use them, which would be a DPS LOSS, not gain.

TL;DR: Give us specifics.

Actually, strength is valued only about 10% better. That number only goes down after that softcap is reached.

On topic, I really doubt you had a 1000 dps increase. If it was really 1000 on a boss i'd suggest you post some pics or logs to tear through.

[LCDArcade]

Actually, strength is valued only about 10% better. That number only goes down after that softcap is reached.

On topic, I really doubt you had a 1000 dps increase. If it was really 1000 on a boss i'd suggest you post some pics or logs to tear through.

Regardless of the math, my dps went up and that's all that matters. I will post numbers on tuesday after saurfang.

[Deleted]

Sounds like a typical error you get when you compare 1 dummy test to another dummy test after you 'do something'.

Gemming haste is not optimal at any kind of decent gear level. I believe it is superior to Str for unholy if you're in like... sub epic gear. Perhaps the same for 2h frost, but I doubt it since frost still suffers from being GCD capped without much (any?) haste.

[Voltair]

For DW frost current EP Values have haste after Str and Mastery

if you were 2h frost (which is cooler)

Then Haste would give a dps increase, 1k , seems a bit much. However for DW Frost your Ep values are Str > Mastery > Haste

2h is Haste > Mastery > Str

so logs or lies

[Ripkit]

At 80, yes, haste is only about 4% behind strength. At 85, the difference is much more drastic: about 3 times different.

85 stat weights:
Strength: 3.10
Hit Rating: 1.65
Haste Rating: 1.10
Crit Rating: 0.80
Expertise Rating: 0.69
Mastery Rating: 0.32
Attack Power: 0.68

80 stat weights:
Hit: 5.83
Expertise: 1.68
Strength: 4.47
Mastery: 1.41
Haste: 4.28
Crit: 2.19
Agility: 1.04
Weapon DPS: 7.06
Weapon Speed: 27.06

Edit: By the way this is Unholy stat weights. If we're talking about 2H frost, then it's as follows:
85:
Strength: 2.04
Hit Rating: 1.39
Expertise Rating: 1.20
Haste Rating: 0.88
Mastery Rating: 0.78
Crit Rating: 0.66
Attack Power: 0.65
80:
Hit 3.37
Expertise 3.27
Strength 3.11
Mastery 3.14
Haste 3.23
Crit 2.30
Agility 1.43
Spell Hit 0.91
Weapon DPS 11.25
Weapon Speed 27.27

[Voltair]

Sounds like a typical error you get when you compare 1 dummy test to another dummy test after you 'do something'.

Gemming haste is not optimal at any kind of decent gear level. I believe it is superior to Str for unholy if you're in like... sub epic gear. Perhaps the same for 2h frost, but I doubt it since frost still suffers from being GCD capped without much (any?) haste.

Not if your using unholy presence, you have a few breathers every now and then

[GuyWithFace]

Strength is nearly always better, but nowhere near "3.5x more valuable".

Yeah, typo on my part. Meant 3.5%, not 3.5x(that would be absolutely ridiculous if it were 3.5x o.O )

But, otherwise, thanks for the correction. Making myself look like an idiot is always a good time.

Edit: In response to Ripkit posting stat weights, I may have been thinking of the stat weights for 85. Or I made a typo. I honestly can't remember: it's 2am. D:

[Deleted]

Seems a bit more likely then, but the math still doesn't work out for haste being superior. Even a casual glance says str is just a far better stat, especially when you're looking at gemming.

[Zalgren8725]

This is an awkward discovery. Even if this is a better gem option for the time being it will be changed very quickly if it's a 1k dps increase. The theme for Cata was making things balanced including stats...don't hold your breath on this one.

[Deleted]

We should ditch every other test and EJ info now guys, he did 1k more dps with haste gems on dummy.

[smashzu]

The DK in my guild is gemming str/haste now, and his numbers in raids have gone up substantially as unholy (277 BiS gear) so there's definitely something there.

[Nyanmaru]

We should ditch every other test and EJ info now guys, he did 1k more dps with haste gems on dummy.

Shush, listen to your elder! Don't bully those that try to think on their own.
EJ was born because of people that thought on their own and was refined to what it is now.
Just cut the OP some slack if he didn't eloquently state everything with perfect math and at least 100 hours of logs to back him up.

[DesT.]

The DK in my guild is gemming str/haste now, and his numbers in raids have gone up substantially as unholy (277 BiS gear) so there's definitely something there.

Fairly sure a DK in 277 BiS gear won't need to gem haste because just reforging will put him over the haste soft cap. WTB logs for from the OP tho. Sounds interesting.

[LCDArcade]

WTB logs for from the OP tho. Sounds interesting.

Sure thing. I'll probably just made a video as well this tuesday or wensday when i get into 25ICC.

---------- Post added 2010-11-15 at 01:20 AM ----------

I played around with it a little more and now I am 1087 haste (33.15%). In unholy which I like the most, I find that my runes are regenerating so fast that my abilities are always up which is good. Of course my attacks arnt hitting as hard as if I was stacking strength gems but it doesn't even matter because I can attack more with stacking haste which in result gives me greater damage. But like you guys said using a dummy is not an accurate way to measure so just gotta wait til' I get into ICC.

[Nabstar]

I would love to stack something other that strength, however I do not see any way possible for haste to out weight strength. There is a soft cap for haste and if you gemmed all haste and reforged to haste, I would guess you are way over the cap. Anything over the cap would be better turned into strength. I am excited to see these logs though.