Stacked all haste dps went up 1k

[Shiira]

Dummy numbers are worthless, people need to learn this.

You might do more dps on a dummy with haste gems but noone cares, they care what you can do in a raid.

The stat priorities stated on ej only apply with full raid buffs, values without them are meaningless because you don't raid without buffs.

I'm not saying that you are wrong, just that your methods of testing are flawed because any test carried out with any buffs missing is invalid.


edit: Foxboron I haven't got a clue what you are trying to say.

[Foxboron]

Dummy numbers are worthless, people need to learn this.

You might do more dps on a dummy with haste gems but noone cares, they care what you can do in a raid.

The stat priorities stated on ej only apply with full raid buffs, values without them are meaningless because you don't raid without buffs.

I'm not saying that you are wrong, just that your methods of testing are flawed because any test carried out with any buffs missing is invalid.

With raid buffs? where this that stand?

[Nyanmaru]

Sure thing. I'll probably just made a video as well this tuesday or wensday when i get into 25ICC.

You do realize there is a huge difference between a video and your ingame DpS meter compared to a complete combat log, right?

[neonlights]

haste is the new arp


you should turn this into a poll

[sicness]

Shush, listen to your elder! Don't bully those that try to think on their own.
EJ was born because of people that thought on their own and was refined to what it is now.
Just cut the OP some slack if he didn't eloquently state everything with perfect math and at least 100 hours of logs to back him up.

And instead did a very likely inaccurate test on a test dummy with no raid buffs? I mean if he's right that's fine, but the methods about which he tries to prove he's right surely aren't disproving of anything others have said.

[Nyanmaru]

And instead did a very likely inaccurate test on a test dummy with no raid buffs? I mean if he's right that's fine, but the methods about which he tries to prove he's right surely aren't disproving of anything others have said.

Shouldn't he then be guided to what is needed to prove his statement?
Instead he gets harrassed that all he dod (exaggerated) is bullocks and he should go die in a fire.

Also, everyone keep in mind, there is a lot of stuff in WoW that you do solo or with incomplete buffs.
If you are an elitist squirrel that only comes online to raid and then swiftly gets lost, yeah EJ is your bible, but for everyone else, there's more to WoW than just elitist raiding...

[Deathquoi]

Shouldn't he then be guided to what is needed to prove his statement?
Instead he gets harrassed that all he dod (exaggerated) is bullocks and he should go die in a fire.

Also, everyone keep in mind, there is a lot of stuff in WoW that you do solo or with incomplete buffs.
If you are an elitist squirrel that only comes online to raid and then swiftly gets lost, yeah EJ is your bible, but for everyone else, there's more to WoW than just elitist raiding...

Raiding is the only place where sustained DPS truly matters, and sustained DPS is potentially the only thing that's possible to replicate through testing. Sustained DPS arguably doesn't matter on 5 man bosses since they die so fast, but who plans for 5 mans?

Also, I don't think it's ridiculous to expect someone that is contradicting both established understandings AND Blizzard's own philosophy for stats to have some kind of solid proof for his claims.

[Foibles]

Shouldn't he then be guided to what is needed to prove his statement?
Instead he gets harrassed that all he dod (exaggerated) is bullocks and he should go die in a fire.

Also, everyone keep in mind, there is a lot of stuff in WoW that you do solo or with incomplete buffs.
If you are an elitist squirrel that only comes online to raid and then swiftly gets lost, yeah EJ is your bible, but for everyone else, there's more to WoW than just elitist raiding...

Nye, you're usually an excellent poster, but I can't believe you are actually say that someone's anecdotal evidence that they went up 1k dps by having a couple haste gems on a TARGET DUMMY is no reason to say they are most likely wrong, and that not everything is about raiding, when the thread is about sustained boss dps.

[Nyanmaru]

Also, I don't think it's ridiculous to expect someone that is contradicting both established understandings AND Blizzard's own philosophy for stats to have some kind of solid proof for his claims.

Though, we are neither the court nor any institution that needs to have any proof. We are just a community posting on a board to discuss WoW related terms. The OP didn't say "OMG my full buffed raid dps skyrocketed after socketing all haste!". The original post was poorly worded and left too much uncertainities and room for speculation but it's no need to start trolling. But stuff like "I stacked all stamina and my DPS went up eleventy billion percent." is no good no matter how you look at it.

Though, I plan for 5 mans, I even plan for soloing. If I just think back 1 expansion, I even respecced for 5 mans depending on the instance. Just to get a gimmick-talent for a single instance or get a strange spec for farming purposes (Siphon/Sac ftw).

We all do know that the OP has absolutely no way of providing enough numbers from live raids to prove that gemming haste actually works out for him (e.g. just to get a statistical size he'd have to go there at least 10 times with haste and 10 times with strength gems while the overall raid composition and performance has to be the same).

Nevertheless, the most interesting thing to see would be the log of him playing, even the video of him playing might be able to show us why haste gemming works for him. There are a lot of things that may influence his gameplay in one or the other way. Maybe he just didn't realize a flaw in his playstyle that let's him benefit more from the haste.

[Deathquoi]

Though, we are neither the court nor any institution that needs to have any proof. We are just a community posting on a board to discuss WoW related terms. The OP didn't say "OMG my full buffed raid dps skyrocketed after socketing all haste!". The original post was poorly worded and left too much uncertainities and room for speculation but it's no need to start trolling. But stuff like "I stacked all stamina and my DPS went up eleventy billion percent." is no good no matter how you look at it.

Though, I plan for 5 mans, I even plan for soloing. If I just think back 1 expansion, I even respecced for 5 mans depending on the instance. Just to get a gimmick-talent for a single instance or get a strange spec for farming purposes (Siphon/Sac ftw).

We all do know that the OP has absolutely no way of providing enough numbers from live raids to prove that gemming haste actually works out for him (e.g. just to get a statistical size he'd have to go there at least 10 times with haste and 10 times with strength gems while the overall raid composition and performance has to be the same).

Nevertheless, the most interesting thing to see would be the log of him playing, even the video of him playing might be able to show us why haste gemming works for him. There are a lot of things that may influence his gameplay in one or the other way. Maybe he just didn't realize a flaw in his playstyle that let's him benefit more from the haste.

My post, while admittedly sarcastic, was meant to illustrate a point. Anyone can make outlandish claims (and claiming a 1k DPS increase from swapping some strength haste gems for 20 hastes is certainly outlandish), but you should have something to back them up.

I'm not saying he's wrong, I'm just saying he needs to provide proof. Just one log would be enough to say "he might be onto something". As it is now, what weight do his claims hold? And if the community doesn't judge the merits of such claims, who does? Is there an international DPS court?

[Nyanmaru]

My post, while admittedly sarcastic, was meant to illustrate a point. Anyone can make outlandish claims (and claiming a 1k DPS increase from swapping some strength haste gems for 20 hastes is certainly outlandish), but you should have something to back them up.

I'm not saying he's wrong, I'm just saying he needs to provide proof. Just one log would be enough to say "he might be onto something". As it is now, what weight do his claims hold? And if the community doesn't judge the merits of such claims, who does? Is there an international DPS court?

Would it hurt your pride to write this post in the beginning? What's so good about making snide remarks? Is it one of those "cool kid" syndromes like bashing on Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber or Twilight? But this shouldn't be discussed here.

Let's just everyone await the log + video the OP may present us or if he choses not to, let this thread descent into the darkness of pages 10+

[sicness]

I'm not saying he's wrong, I'm just saying he needs to provide proof. Just one log would be enough to say "he might be onto something". As it is now, what weight do his claims hold? And if the community doesn't judge the merits of such claims, who does? Is there an international DPS court?

Exactly. A lot of people come on here and claim they just came up with this new spec or new rotation or new way to optimize their performance with absolutely no proof at all and expect us to take their word for it that their dps went up 1k on the test dummies. With no proof of even how long they spent on the test dummies then we have no real reason to believe them at all. Someone needs to come out and say they're wrong otherwise they won't know they're wrong (which in this case he is wrong about how he judges his dps increase, not necessarily the difference of the stats), and when someone doesn't even know how they should be judging their dps while on a target dummy, well I'm sorry I'm not going to believe some random jargon from them about how one stat is now better than another without something to back it up.

The guys on elitist jerks may do that to the nth degree, but no one questions them because they take the time to prove they're right, if someone isn't going to take the time to prove they're right them I'm not going to take the time to listen to their arguments.

[Aragen]

All I have to say about this thread is bad DKs are bad /sigh.

[Deathquoi]

Would it hurt your pride to write this post in the beginning? What's so good about making snide remarks? Is it one of those "cool kid" syndromes like bashing on Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber or Twilight? But this shouldn't be discussed here.

Let's just everyone await the log + video the OP may present us or if he choses not to, let this thread descent into the darkness of pages 10+

I'm a sarcastic person. I make jokes. It's not to be cool. Like I said, it was to illustrate a point. He's probably a big boy that can deal with the odd sarcastic remark on the internet.

[wizdro]

Stacking strength I did 8k on Heroic dummy. Stacking haste I did 9.1k sustained. Faster rune regen means I get to use more hard hitting attacks like obliterate instead of frost strike.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...C3%90%C3%A6kon

Actually, the bolded portion just makes sense. I totally think this deserves some experimentation.

I can't believe how much trust people put into their scripts and calculators. Nothing does the job like in-game testing.

[Karhazn]

Without any WoL report, or a sim report with haste gems in all slots I wouldn't consider this.

[Deathquoi]

Actually, the bolded portion just makes sense. I totally think this deserves some experimentation.

I can't believe how much trust people put into their scripts and calculators. Nothing does the job like in-game testing.

I don't think anyone said that it doesn't make sense and it wouldn't be worth testing. I think most of us are extremely suspicious of a minor gem change yielding a 15% DPS increase. When the OP posts his logs we can see what's going on and make a better determination of what's going on. If I said "gemming all crit makes me do double damage more often", that is true and it does make sense, but it doesn't mean that the benefits outweigh the sacrifices required.

[Shiira]

I can't believe how much trust people put into their scripts and calculators. Nothing does the job like in-game testing.

In game testing is subject to randomness.

It takes a lot of time to even out the randomness enough to compare dps with enough accuracy to know which of two pieces of gear is better, or how to gem. By a lot of time I mean days at the absolute minimum and months for more accurate results, it's not practical. When you factor in all the combinations of gear, gems, enchants, reforging, talents, glyphs and rotations it gets silly. When figuring out how to optimise my character I would like to be able to finish within my own lifetime.

This is where sims and spreadsheets come in handy, when used properly they perform the same function as in game testing, just in far less time.

[kumduh]

I hate to cut discussion off early, but I'm seriously getting tired of threads about dummy dps. I like this forum to be lax in regards to EJ's, but posting threads about dummy dps is pretty much the ONLY thing that I wont tolerate. OP has 48 hours to produce something of substance or I'm locking the thread. From here on the vast majority dummy dps threads are probably just going to be locked as they often are completely pointless. If you don't trust sims that's fine, but either get an entire group of 25 people together to do your dummy tests, or post some sort of in game log of a REAL boss fight.

[Deleted]

Strength is superior to haste with raid-buffs. Why don't you just listen to the theorycrafters, who actually think about something, before mindlessly stacking haste?

You made a jewelcrafter happy at least