Do you feel Over powered healing trivialized a majority of WOTLK boss fights?

[zenkai]

Having healed since Launch I have experienced all the healing changes and in WOTLK mana was pretty much infinite even with the nerfs, so healing mostly was about throughput and not mana management. Having said that you was able to heal people through failed boss mechanics or trivialized fights in general. Take the twin valks in TOC for instance, it could have been a fun fight but instead with the over powering of healing you can just stack everyone at the door and and heal through the carnage.

What do you healers think?

[Maeleena]

Healing isn't OP, because if that was the case, then heroic LK would be downed by even the lowliest of pugs.

Also, you can't even comment on ToC10 in today's age, because with the gear from ICC, every single fight in that instance, including heroic Anub is a joke. Overgearing isn't trivializing content, because that content wasn't meant to be run with people in 264+ avg ilvl gear.

[zenkai]

Healing isn't OP, because if that was the case, then heroic LK would be downed by even the lowliest of pugs.

HLK fails is usually not a healing issue...

And actually Heroic Anub is harder because everyone has a larger health pool, so unless your healers don't suck I don't care if you're pulling 15kdps you're not killing him.

[Maeleena]

HLK is usually not a healing issue...

And actually Heroic Anub is harder because everyone has a larger health pool, so unless your healers don't suck I don't care if you're pulling 15kdps you're not killing him.

Think what you want, really no point to this thread to begin with.

[zenkai]

Think what you want, really no point to this thread to begin with.

No offense you obviously never done these fights and understand the mechanics, and whats the point in any thread other than carrying a conversation and wanting to know how other people feel?

[Against the Modern World]

And actually Heroic Anub is harder because everyone has a larger health pool, so unless your healers don't suck I don't care if you're pulling 15kdps you're not killing him.

I've done Tribute to Insanity(10) 3 weeks ago, Anub was just bursted down.

[Lackluster]

And actually Heroic Anub is harder because everyone has a larger health pool, so unless your healers don't suck I don't care if you're pulling 15kdps you're not killing him.

Completely irrelevant as players are kept at the same low amount of HP and the aura leeches a percentage of current HP, not max HP.

Don't post stuff like "you obviously enver done these fights and understand the mechanics" if you're struggling to understand them yourself.

[zenkai]

I've done Tribute to Insanity(10) 3 weeks ago, Anub was just bursted down.

Sorry I was talking about 25 player, I guess I should have clarified, 10 man isn't very relevant in my eyes And either is still doable with a skilled group of players but not in a pug, well maybe 10 man with a 1 good healer who is smart enough not to top off non tanks

---------- Post added 2010-11-19 at 02:43 PM ----------

Completely irrelevant as players are kept at the same low amount of HP and the aura leeches a percentage of current HP, not max HP.

Don't post stuff like "you obviously enver done these fights and understand the mechanics" if you're struggling to understand them yourself.

lol.... and with stronger heals and higher healthpools in a pug players will have a much higher current HP.... I am not saying it isn't doable I am just saying pugs won't be downing him without skilled healers

[Kenai]

Yes.

But I'm still not sure people understand exactly what implications nerfing the healing at 85 are going to have. Some things are more fun, because my most fun times as a healer were when I was racing to keep everyone alive and wasn't sure I could. Some other things are a chore, like my first 85 heroic were the tank died from 6 adds and 0 CC, on him, and I was promptly blamed for not keeping him alive despite blowing every CD I had. Or racing to the rest of the group because they didn't let me drink before the next pull if I'm at 10% mana.

It's going to be so important for people to pay attention, and man up when they make a mistake (or at the very least not be a pita to the other party members) or there are going to be a lot of frustrated folks and extra-long queues/swift party kicks and a lot of closed groups that do stuff with a guild and no one else (good in some ways I guess). I would like it to be more obvious when something in particular is going wrong that is fixable, so there is no question in anyone's mind and a lesser known indivdual does not become a scapegoat for issues beyong their control. Despite the change to 31 point talents, the sheer difficulty of 85 heroic mechanics is just not apparent on Live, at all. It's going to be interesting to see who says what when they are released, and what pug experiences are like for everyone.

[Kerath]

On the one hand you argue that overpowered healing trivializes content because it allows encounter mechanics to be ignored (see your example of twin valkyrs).

Yet in the next post you point out that LK fails are generally nothing to do with healing problems.

Well, no, indeed they aren’t, but if your point were true then overpowered healing would allow mistakes made to be overcome regardless.

Try making up your mind on your own standpoint before trying to start up a debate?

And in answer to your question, no, I don't think "overpowered" healing trivialised content in Wrath.
It was just a very different healing method compared to vanilla.

Very broadly speaking, challenging Vanilla healing encounters were about managing mana, setting rotations and making sure you had the legs to go the distance, as it were.
Wrath has mostly been a battle against global cooldown and pumping out your biggest heals asap. A lot less teamwork amongst healers in general, I've found.

[zenkai]

@ Kenai
I can totally understand your point of view and agree with it, people are use to healers carrying them because it was possible, if this is not the case anymore they will be blaming healers, I think this will eventually get stomped out overtime as it will be the norm but for the start good healers are going to be very frustrated with bad dungeon pugs and bad healers might end up rerolling, thats just my 2cp of course

---------- Post added 2010-11-19 at 02:54 PM ----------

On the one hand you argue that overpowered healing trivializes content because it allows encounter mechanics to be ignored (see your example of twin valkyrs).

Yet in the next post you point out that LK fails are generally nothing to do with healing problems.

There are always exceptions to any generalized statement... How do you not know this? I meant overall not EVERY SINGLE FIGHT. For instance I believe HLK was balanced around around over powered healing but at the same time a skilled guild can still take advantage of it, as in case with Paragon when they did HLK with the 5% buff and only 4 healers so they would have enough dps to beat the enrage timer. Of course it took the skill of the DPS to not take unnecessary dmg but it just goes to show how powerful healing is in a skilled guild.

[Ivthil]

Completely irrelevant as players are kept at the same low amount of HP and the aura leeches a percentage of current HP, not max HP.

Don't post stuff like "you obviously enver done these fights and understand the mechanics" if you're struggling to understand them yourself.

You seem stressed. Take a chill pill.

[Moistie]

WotLK was a healing whack-a-mole basically. I called it "watching bars." Sometimes I didn't even need to know the mechanics of the fight to be successful. If I saw crap on the ground, I ran from it. If I saw everyone going somewhere, I followed... etc.

Sometimes I wouldn't be able to watch what was happening during encounters because of 25 decreasing hp bars. I PvP'd for a while and didn't raid at first, so some fights I have never actually seen what happens because there is no need for movement, so much AOE raid damage and I have only pugged them - so basically I ended up pulling like 30-40% of the healing because most people run their alts in pugs on my server.

I have played since vanilla, but I was only a healer in Wrath. I am not sure what's coming in Cataclysm besides limited mana, slower AOE, and a need to push more than a few buttons. I feel like I have a leg-up though having a main as a resto shaman. Many people say they were just chain heal spam (and for AOE situations they mostly were), but I assure you I used my entire healing arsenal during Wrath and it paid off. I am excited to see how much I suck at mana management when I hit 85; more excited to improve as a player. I like the challenge Cata is promosing.

I am really excited to figure out resto shaman pvp mechanics too. What heals to use, etc.

[Kenai]

@ Kenai
I can totally understand your point of view and agree with it, people are use to healers carrying them because it was possible, if this is not the case anymore they will be blaming healers, I think this will eventually get stomped out overtime as it will be the norm but for the start good healers are going to be very frustrated with bad dungeon pugs and bad healers might end up rerolling, thats just my 2cp of course

Quite possibly. I wish Blizzard had implemented their own version of programs like Omen. They did a fairly good job with some of the DBM type boss features, but DBM has certainly not been rotated out either. For all of the good interface changes to raidframes and spell tooltips (which are nice), threat and monster mechanics are still quite obtuse. I don't expect every fight to be hand-held or mindnumbingly predicatable, but when we continually wipe in something like a 5 man I think it should be obvious to all exactly what is wrong, so even if a terrible person gets booted that might inspire them to be less terrible (or reroll/quit, idc). It's not, not even close, despite myself being fairly experienced as a player and considered "good" by most people I run into, half the time I don't even know for sure. I also can't expect a casual player to necessarlly know (or want) to DL these additional addons, or effectively use them. They aren't raiding, after all, it's a 5 man. Blizzard has done a lot of excellent things and overall I think the expansion is great, but they DID encourage the WotLK mindset and I was hoping they had more in the wings to make this transition easier than a few blue posts.

You won't be able to plan on getting through random dungeons with near-certainty anymore. Repairs won't get cheaper, and gear will take a lot longer to get so you won't be overgearing for 10/25 man raids on your own time anytime soon. You might have to leave and reque, and dpsing will =/= a faceroll rotation. Breaking CC might realistically wipe everyone, several wipes might mean a 60min+ dungeon, not including queue times. Exceptional groups will probably wipe at least a few times by boss mechanics alone, so what about the good ones that make a few additional mistakes? The bad groups with no hope? It's not all fun.