Thread: BM at 80 and 85

  1. #1

    BM at 80 and 85

    Hi, so quick story I guess. Been playing since day one, hunter main, love BM, sad it's been useless yada yada yada. Anyway, since 4.0 went live I have had MM for raiding and BM as offspec(hoped it would match, but sadly...). Well Usually once a week, or when they tweak specs, I go to the boss dummy and test each spec out. Well last I checked(couple of days ago) BM was maxing at about 6,200-6,500 and MM was doing 7800-8500. These tests were 10 minutes long each, and were done 2 or 3 times per spec. Anyway, last time I checked KC wasn't up to snuff and arcane spam always came out above it.

    Now, last night I went on a heroic 10 man run with my usual group and there is a hunter in the group that I'm pretty good friends with, and we discuss hunter stuff quite a bit. He outgears me a bit(im at like 5875gs with a 251 bow, hes at 6100ish with a 271 bow). He decided to go BM for the raid, and while he usually out does me as MM by about 500 dps give or take, I assumed that he wouldn't be able to keep up as BM. Well he was able to, and was doing just about what he usually does as MM. He used KC on CD, and whatnot. I don't understand though, how my target dummy numbers can be so far apart, I mean BM is easier to do than MM(thanks improved SS). As BM I do the: blow CD's, KC, AS til no focus, steady, AS or KC if it's off CD and hit focus fire when it pops. So either im doing it wrong, BM scales better with gear(?), or it got a ninja buff I was unaware of.

    Also, side note, how is BM at 85? Haven't heard anything in a while.

  2. #2
    In regard to dummy tests: Read the Careful Aim talent... carefully. Then look at your crit rate on Steady Shot.

    It sounds like your friend may just be better with the BM rotation than he is with the Marks rotation. The gap closes quite a bit depending on reforging as well. Marks really needs to reforge in bulk to mastery to be competitive, while BM is mostly better without reforging. So if he's not reforging to Mastery his BM and MM numbers will be much closer than they ought to be.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by harky View Post
    In regard to dummy tests: Read the Careful Aim talent... carefully. Then look at your crit rate on Steady Shot.

    It sounds like your friend may just be better with the BM rotation than he is with the Marks rotation. The gap closes quite a bit depending on reforging as well. Marks really needs to reforge in bulk to mastery to be competitive, while BM is mostly better without reforging. So if he's not reforging to Mastery his BM and MM numbers will be much closer than they ought to be.
    Yea, I know about careful aim inflating MM, but I wouldn't think(could be wrong) it would inflate it that much. Granted I haven't tried BM in a raid, outside of trash, so I can't say for myself how it it without careful aim bloat. That is a good point about reforging though. I have everything reforged to mastery for MM(think like 550 mastery?) and I did notice BM drop a bit when I first did it. So theoretically, if I were to un-reforge myself you think BM would be significantly closer to MM? As in the reforged MM, or the no mastery MM?

  4. #4
    When you reforge it pushes MM higher and BM lower, so the gap spreads. When you don't reforge it brings MM down and BM up, so the gap is smaller even though Marks still beats BM. If his non-reforged BM numbers beat your reforged MM numbers then he'll beat you either way. The point is if that is the case and he were to reforge to Mastery his MM numbers would then be even higher, though his BM numbers would drop under your numbers.

    As far as Careful Aim, it will depend. What's your crit rate? The higher it is the less Careful Aim will mean as it's converting fewer hits into crits than it would at lower crit rates. Having that 100% crit on Steady means it's inflating those numbers quite a bit and by extension inflate your Piercing Shots damage. Then you need to consider cross buffs and such. BM provides the 3% damage buff, Marks provides the 10% AP buff and so on. You have to keep in mind the context of the test when comparing two specs output.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by harky View Post
    When you reforge it pushes MM higher and BM lower, so the gap spreads. When you don't reforge it brings MM down and BM up, so the gap is smaller even though Marks still beats BM. If his non-reforged BM numbers beat your reforged MM numbers then he'll beat you either way. The point is if that is the case and he were to reforge to Mastery his MM numbers would then be even higher, though his BM numbers would drop under your numbers.

    As far as Careful Aim, it will depend. What's your crit rate? The higher it is the less Careful Aim will mean as it's converting fewer hits into crits than it would at lower crit rates. Having that 100% crit on Steady means it's inflating those numbers quite a bit and by extension inflate your Piercing Shots damage. Then you need to consider cross buffs and such. BM provides the 3% damage buff, Marks provides the 10% AP buff and so on. You have to keep in mind the context of the test when comparing two specs output.
    I thought he was completely reforged to mastery, but the armory is showing he has no reforging, so he may have un-reforged to try BM. My crit is 51% with all my stuff reforged, so yea, 100% with 2/2 careful aim. I haven't looked in a while to see what % of overall damage SS is in raids and on a dummy, but yea I could see that making a decent difference. Really would rather not pay to un-reforge my gear just to see how BM does, but I guess I could copy my hunter to the PTR and check.

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