WFS vs Herkuml

[Breakthoven]

Which one is a better dps improvement ( i got 44% crit and 12% haste)

[phantomlink]

12% haste seems low after the 4.0 changes. Did you reforge your haste to hit instead of crit to hit?

Also, whats your other trinket? I`m running around with both and they do me just fine

[Breakthoven]

I got the heroic DBW, and yes I reforged haste to hit. Should I reforge crit to hit?

[Laundry]

You shouldn't automatically go crit to hit or aste to crit, it's balanced around you gear. If you need more of a stat and less of another, you decrease the one you have excess of in order to improve another stat. Do this for expertise, crit, hit, and haste. don't reforge all of your crit automatically to hit, then you end up gimping flurry uptime and nerfing your total damage output.

In my shoes, I have:
17% haste
34% crit
27.2% hit

I try to maintain certain numbers to better myself, so far this works out better than "Oh hey, reforge everyone single point in one stat into another."

[phantomlink]

if you find yourself doing decent DPS for now, keep it but crits dont increase rage anymore, so more haste means more rage. But if you see yourself without rage problems then you can probably keep it like that until cataclysm. On topic i`m a fan of the HWT over the WFS unless the WFS is a heroic one

[Jona90]

I currently have WFS and HERKUML should I use my Deaths verdict from TOC 25 man instead?

Any suggestions?

Thank u

[Deleted]

WFS wins any day, for a few reasons:

1) Crit is almost always better than haste, until you reach close too constant uptime on flurry - as flurry aka crit indirectly gives you haste - 2 stats for the price of 1, win! ;D

2) Stacking CDs is vital, and while your raid burns heroism, pre-pots and your DBW goes off right when the fight starts, you don't want to sit around and wait for Herkuml to get it's ass in gear and stack up.

3) It does not take a lot of haste to reach the "soft rage cap" (when your rage becomes close to infinite during a lust/heroism, while pot'ing or with vrykul proc) I'm close to BiS, yet I only use 12,05% (395 rating)

It's awesome to see people giving other people advice - however misleading is not advice, it's just plain wrong

[Jona90]

So I should get rid of my herkuml and use my TOC trinket is what youre saying?

WFS wins any day, for a few reasons:

1) Crit is almost always better than haste, until you reach close too constant uptime on flurry - as flurry aka crit indirectly gives you haste - 2 stats for the price of 1, win! ;D

2) Stacking CDs is vital, and while your raid burns heroism, pre-pots and your DBW goes off right when the fight starts, you don't want to sit around and wait for Herkuml to get it's ass in gear and stack up.

3) It does not take a lot of haste to reach the "soft rage cap" (when your rage becomes close to infinite during a lust/heroism, while pot'ing or with vrykul proc) I'm close to BiS, yet I only use 12,05% (395 rating)

It's awesome to see people giving other people advice - however misleading is not advice, it's just plain wrong

[phantomlink]

So I should get rid of my herkuml and use my TOC trinket is what youre saying?

Negative

[Veneratio]

WFS wins any day, for a few reasons:

1) Crit is almost always better than haste, until you reach close too constant uptime on flurry - as flurry aka crit indirectly gives you haste - 2 stats for the price of 1, win! ;D

2) Stacking CDs is vital, and while your raid burns heroism, pre-pots and your DBW goes off right when the fight starts, you don't want to sit around and wait for Herkuml to get it's ass in gear and stack up.

3) It does not take a lot of haste to reach the "soft rage cap" (when your rage becomes close to infinite during a lust/heroism, while pot'ing or with vrykul proc) I'm close to BiS, yet I only use 12,05% (395 rating)

It's awesome to see people giving other people advice - however misleading is not advice, it's just plain wrong

1. if by almost always you mean about half the time, i dont know about you but post 4.0 at the top of my recount everytime is heroic strike. which is a very high cost ability ie more rage more using of are best ability... ie more rage = more dps and if your speced into encite which most of us are heroic strike crits will be almost constant anyways... haste makes a very strong case in this

2. Now i dont know about your tanks....but they guys i run with are in my opinion pretty solid however snap threat is not what it used to be... and other than the saurfang fight and maybe fester i dont know alot of raid teams that are lusting off the bat...so while your white strikeing and sundering your target your gaining stacks from HWT aaaand while it wont provide a bigger burst under lust it will give you more dps throughout the fight...thats assuming that you WFS even goes off during bloodlust where as you know the token will be there.

3.you basing your "rage cap" off the vykrul proc.... which is nice and i love when my dbw obliges me however.... your basing your rage generation off a once per fight buff and a trinket that if IF it procs has 33% chance to give you that haste

to the OP id go with DBW and the Token consistant ATP and the bonus rage > than more crits with fewer heroic strikes

[Deleted]

1. if by almost always you mean about half the time, i dont know about you but post 4.0 at the top of my recount everytime is heroic strike. which is a very high cost ability ie more rage more using of are best ability... ie more rage = more dps and if your speced into encite which most of us are heroic strike crits will be almost constant anyways... haste makes a very strong case in this

2. Now i dont know about your tanks....but they guys i run with are in my opinion pretty solid however snap threat is not what it used to be... and other than the saurfang fight and maybe fester i dont know alot of raid teams that are lusting off the bat...so while your white strikeing and sundering your target your gaining stacks from HWT aaaand while it wont provide a bigger burst under lust it will give you more dps throughout the fight...thats assuming that you WFS even goes off during bloodlust where as you know the token will be there.

3.you basing your "rage cap" off the vykrul proc.... which is nice and i love when my dbw obliges me however.... your basing your rage generation off a once per fight buff and a trinket that if IF it procs has 33% chance to give you that haste

to the OP id go with DBW and the Token consistant ATP and the bonus rage > than more crits with fewer heroic strikes

Not sure I understand what you're saying in 1) as to "if by always you mean half the time", but I'm guessing you're talking about flurry uptime? I use 52% crit in raids, which allows me to go 3/3 War Academy and 2/3 Incite, without loosing any crit chance on my HS proc. Also, it gives me a flurry up time around 98%, which means that I got 25% haste + Windfury (10%) + my 12% from 395 haste rating = 47% haste, while still reforging away from it. Add 27% hit to that, and you're not gonna miss a single HS due to starvation, regardless of what's been stated above. Just stop hitting slam when your rage is going down, and learn how to shout on open GCDs, and you'll be fine

A regular ICC fight, as they are now, is on average just about 3 minutes (not counting LK), at least in my guild.. 30 secs will be a lust/hero, 30 secs will be a speed pot (if you prepot) and you'll proc DBW twice. But lets just say you're lucky, and don't get any vrykul proc's (yes, it's still the worst proc, cus haste is still a crap stat, to some degree). This is still 1 minute of the fight, where u wont be able to spend your rage, if you got too much haste - then why not get crit instead, which you will always benefit from, and which (as stated above) indirectly gives you haste anyway, as it improves flurry uptime.

But allow me to ask of you Veneratio, if you're that certain in this matter, why don't you show a WoL that proves your statements, and I'll show you mine on the same fights - and we'll see who has the biggest "argument" ;D hehe

[Veneratio]

lol i dont have gear to be compareing sizes with you im afraid friend but......listen to my reasoning.....your sitting at near BiS if hes not which lets face it most of us are not.. hes not going to able to obtain that level of crit. secondly every top level warrior ive seen has been specing 2/3 WA and 3/3 incite maybe it just my relm however....i feel that the 14k dps i can output for my gear level is quite good...beyond that...with my rotation unchanged i both did dummey testing and a saurfang run with the token and the skull and saw more dps from the token...haste isnt a priority for sure but its not as garbage as it used to be....however the tokens constant attack boost and increased rage generation i feel are better stats particualy if were looking at normal mode WFS which i beleive is what we are discussing