1. #1
    Scarab Lord Blznsmri's Avatar
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    Idea to reduce "nerf-age" for the sake of PvP

    I constantly see people complaining about how because of Blizzard trying to balance things around Arena's and PvP, certain specs get nerfed to hell and have damage and mechanics changed so that they're no longer (as) viable in PvE. So, why not use an idea that another MMO, with probably the best PvP I've ever played, Guild Wars used.

    Essentially, certain abilities would have their values or functions changed once the player got into a PvP environment (GvG, Random Arenas, Alliance Battles, Hall of Heroes, etc).

    For example: A Ranger (hunter) ability called Penetrating Attack in a PvE environment would do 5...21...25 damage (depending on your number of attributes in Marksman) and ignore 10% armor. However once you went into a PvP environment the values would changed to 3...9...10, still ignoring 10% armor.

    Another example would be a Build or Spec that was Ranger/ Ritualist (Guild Wars allows for class combinations) where a Ranger would use an ability called Splinter Weapon (acts similar to Flametongue Weapon, Windfury Weapon, in the sense that its a temporary weapon enchant) which deals up to 50 damage to 3 adjacent foes and would last for 5 attacks, in a PvE environment, in a PvP environment, the damage would be reduced to 30. This weapon enchant would be coupled with a Ranger skill called Barrage, which hit 6 adjacent foes for up to +20 damage (works like multi shot does now).

    The above would basically decimate people in large scale Alliance Battles (Battle Grounds the size of AV) and Guild vs. Guild fight because you're actually hitting each person about 7 times for upwards of 80-100 damage (before armor reductions), and given that health pools in guild wars capped out a 480 unaltered (no Runes or Glyphs of fortitude), you basically just one-shot an entire group of people.

    There are other examples like Perma-Sins, IW Mesmers, IWAY Warriors/ Mesmers, 55 Monks, Riposte Warriors (my personal favorite), but the Ranger example was the one I had most experience.


    TL:DR, I suggest that Blizzard changes how abilities function when players are in PvP environments, as opposed to Nerfing the class's PvE viability.


    Added suggestion, for PvP realms, have the abilities altered for PvP anywhere that's not a Dungeon or Raid.

  2. #2
    So what would happen with world PvP?
    Edit: There is still some world PvP on PVE realms. and to your last statement, What about leveling up/ Questing?

  3. #3
    Scarab Lord Blznsmri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altmania View Post
    So what would happen with world PvP?
    Edit: There is still some world PvP on PVE realms. and to your last statement, What about leveling up/ Questing?
    Read this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blznsmri View Post
    Added suggestion, for PvP realms, have the abilities altered for PvP anywhere that's not a Dungeon or Raid.
    As for PvE realms that do some PvP, the second you flag yourself for PvP, the abilities will change.

  4. #4
    Easier way would be just reduce ALL damage/healer of everyone versus other players? or when in combat with another player.
    Edit; was beat -
    Quote Originally Posted by Blznsmri View Post
    As for PvE realms that do some PvP, the second you flag yourself for PvP, the abilities will change.

  5. #5
    Blizzard don't try to balance pvp around 1on1 e.g Duels, World PvP.

    So this idea would work. I like it, me and a couple friends that play talked about something like this before, didnt know Guild Wars used it.
    [URL="http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/sylvanas/Swaap/advanced[/URL]

  6. #6
    I honestly have no idea why they haven't done this.

  7. #7
    Scarab Lord Blznsmri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swaap View Post
    Blizzard don't try to balance pvp around 1on1 e.g Duels, World PvP.

    So this idea would work. I like it, me and a couple friends that play talked about something like this before, didnt know Guild Wars used it.

    This idea is why I think Guild Wars PvP is a whole lot better than WoW pvp. (along with the lack of gear imbalances)

  8. #8
    High Overlord lawlpoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blznsmri View Post
    I constantly see people complaining about how because of Blizzard trying to balance things around Arena's and PvP, certain specs get nerfed to hell and have damage and mechanics changed so that they're no longer (as) viable in PvE. So, why not use an idea that another MMO, with probably the best PvP I've ever played, Guild Wars used.

    Essentially, certain abilities would have their values or functions changed once the player got into a PvP environment (GvG, Random Arenas, Alliance Battles, Hall of Heroes, etc).

    For example: A Ranger (hunter) ability called Penetrating Attack in a PvE environment would do 5...21...25 damage (depending on your number of attributes in Marksman) and ignore 10% armor. However once you went into a PvP environment the values would changed to 3...9...10, still ignoring 10% armor.

    Another example would be a Build or Spec that was Ranger/ Ritualist (Guild Wars allows for class combinations) where a Ranger would use an ability called Splinter Weapon (acts similar to Flametongue Weapon, Windfury Weapon, in the sense that its a temporary weapon enchant) which deals up to 50 damage to 3 adjacent foes and would last for 5 attacks, in a PvE environment, in a PvP environment, the damage would be reduced to 30. This weapon enchant would be coupled with a Ranger skill called Barrage, which hit 6 adjacent foes for up to +20 damage (works like multi shot does now).

    The above would basically decimate people in large scale Alliance Battles (Battle Grounds the size of AV) and Guild vs. Guild fight because you're actually hitting each person about 7 times for upwards of 80-100 damage (before armor reductions), and given that health pools in guild wars capped out a 480 unaltered (no Runes or Glyphs of fortitude), you basically just one-shot an entire group of people.

    There are other examples like Perma-Sins, IW Mesmers, IWAY Warriors/ Mesmers, 55 Monks, Riposte Warriors (my personal favorite), but the Ranger example was the one I had most experience.


    TLR, I suggest that Blizzard changes how abilities function when players are in PvP environments, as opposed to Nerfing the class's PvE viability.


    Added suggestion, for PvP realms, have the abilities altered for PvP anywhere that's not a Dungeon or Raid.
    Well you do realize that Guild Wars is just based on PvP. Their isn't huge raids, they just have little five mans. They have the runs to get the new gear like Diablo. This is because half the people who worked on Diablo made Guild Wars.

    Expect Diablo 3 to be a lot like Guild Wars.

  9. #9
    Scarab Lord Blznsmri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lawlpoo View Post
    Well you do realize that Guild Wars is just based on PvP. Their isn't huge raids, they just have little five mans. They have the runs to get the new gear like Diablo. This is because half the people who worked on Diablo made Guild Wars.

    Expect Diablo 3 to be a lot like Guild Wars.

    They don't have 5 mans, they have the equivalent of 10 man raids. And their end game "Raids" are bigger than ICC and Uld to an extent. Yes, Guild Wars does do a lot more pvp, but it's not JUST based on PvP, or else they wouldn't have Heroes (Smart NPC allies you can take with you) and Henchmen (not so smart NPC allies you can take with you) or 67+ "raids" to do.

  10. #10
    The Patient
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    On pvp realms you're flaged for Pvp while lvl-ing almost all the time... so that means it's harder for you to lvl couse "it might feel OP to 2 shot someone while lvl-ing" ?I kinda like the idea but i don't see how it can work on pvp realms. I guess it could change on depending what you target, for eg if you target a mob you do 100 damage, if you target a player and engage him you do 20 damage no matter where that happens, but i guess that complicates things.

  11. #11
    Blizzard talked about this and decided they didn't like it, like, at the beginning of WotLK. Maybe even while WotLK was being developed.

  12. #12
    Warchief Whisperawr's Avatar
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    Your TL;DR made a smiley face!

  13. #13
    Scarab Lord Blznsmri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loonatek View Post
    On pvp realms you're flaged for Pvp while lvl-ing almost all the time... so that means it's harder for you to lvl couse "it might feel OP to 2 shot someone while lvl-ing" ?I kinda like the idea but i don't see how it can work on pvp realms. I guess it could change on depending what you target, for eg if you target a mob you do 100 damage, if you target a player and engage him you do 20 damage no matter where that happens, but i guess that complicates things.
    That comes with the territory of playin a PvP realm. Aren't they meant to be "harder" than a PvE realm?

  14. #14
    Blizzard have already stated they do not like abilities which react or do something very differently in pvp and pve situations.
    Having such inconsistent behaviour would make things worse, not easier.
    Unfortunatly a proper balance will never exist as long as there are different classes, and two differing environments to balance them between.

  15. #15
    Scarab Lord Blznsmri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by u9k13tjc View Post
    <cough>Deepfreeze<cough>
    I previously had no response to him... But /win....

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Blznsmri View Post
    Added suggestion, for PvP realms, have the abilities altered for PvP anywhere that's not a Dungeon or Raid.
    Maybe it's better just to add a check for NPC/player, and determine the damage after this check. Isn't it how CrowdControl works(different time for NPC and players).
    In Diablo2 all abilities did reduced damage to players, 1/6 or 1/8 of their normal damage, if I remember correctly.

  17. #17
    Resilience? I think that's good enough. There's nothing wrong with PvP at the moment apart from the DAMAGE numbers being too high, they need to be reduced. Other than that, PvP is fine. It would be WAY too much work to do all that work OP said.

  18. #18
    Scarab Lord Blznsmri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kharismal Abyss View Post
    Resilience? I think that's good enough. There's nothing wrong with PvP at the moment apart from the DAMAGE numbers being too high, they need to be reduced. Other than that, PvP is fine. It would be WAY too much work to do all that work OP said.
    Apparently it's not based on how long they've had resilience and how many times they've completely nerfed a spec.

  19. #19
    i've played guild wars for quite some time and well, i can only agree but i guess that may also be a matter of pride for blizzard as quite a lot of people working for arena.net now were former bliz employees from what i heard (unles i'm wrong there).

    "copying" their ideas would also mean that they (A.net) were right introducing their PvE/PvP ability formulas mechanic into Guild Wars and Wow was wrong keeping their resilience-based model.

    oh, and there's no way that would be "that" difficult for bliz to implement it considering Guild Wars also has 10 "classes" (professions) which each has 80 to 140 abilities (let's say 80-115 since base classes have redundant abilities) to balance out, not to mention characters actually have up to 2 professions (thus 200-250 availables skills considering you learned all of them).

    i know the PvP models are totally different but my point is, in terms of complexity, they should at least be on the same level considering that gear does bring stats that influences skill potency in WoW as opposed to Guild Wars where skills aren't that dependant to gear.

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