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  1. #61
    Legendary! seam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundertom View Post
    Very good post. Sticky indeed. Also looking forward to some old school tanking! Let's hope others can adapt.
    Why sticky? If people are smart enough to come to mmo-c they are smart enough(I hope) to know everything here =\
    Avatar done by my friend Crystal<3

  2. #62
    Nice guide, only thing I wanna add is; dont be rude, dont blame people directly, it might be your fault, and dont leave after wipe, you´re gonna have to get used to wiping.

  3. #63
    Regardless of whether 'WotLK players' and 'bad players' are the same thing, very good advice, presented well - especially as it's informal/friendly enough not to alienate the people who could benefit from reading this.

    Good show!

  4. #64
    High Overlord wowmolly's Avatar
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    great post def should be stickyd. very helpfull idd

  5. #65
    The Patient Detonation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyonath View Post
    Wrong. Wrath was not watered down HM 25m LK was by far the hardest fight I have ever experienced, and I have experienced every encounter as it was current content.
    Everyone who says what you say obviously has not cleared ALL WotLK content.
    /agree
    Quote Originally Posted by Sengiratolom View Post
    Global= kill in one global cooldown, in what universe do you have 12 sec gcds? Where the hell did you get so much negative haste that you now attack 8 times as slow?

    Would be hilarious to watch you auto attack someone with a 3.8 speed weapon, 1 attack every 30.4 seconds. some1 stands in meleerange and runs away every 25sec= you dont attack @ all and the green geared person with a lvl 60 dagger stabs away your health.
    Music | Anime

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Skarrd View Post
    Sure, heroic LK was the hardest, but it was not the only hard encounter and definitely not the only fun one.
    Well PP was kinda entertaining, Sindra was just annoying with the long phase1 and then teh uber hard phase 2. BQ faceroll along with the ones I havnt mentioned (yes I mean heroic).

  7. #67
    Great post , sticky = win

    One thing do , while i agree the "Tank" is not the master of the group, and he shoudnt behave like that i want to say that a group shoud have someone to lead since in my personal opinion when
    there is no one to lead usualy the grp doesent go good.

  8. #68
    Brewmaster juzalol's Avatar
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    TL;DR
    Tank&spank
    If fire on ground, move

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by DistortionSleep View Post
    I have a beta key, I did the 85 5-man heroics, they aren't really as hard as allot of people make them out to be. Sure I was using a 85 premade character with 359 gear. My point being is, if the 85 5 man heroics are pretty easy at the first raid tier, whats makes you think they won't be faceroll just like todays 5 man's with final raid tier? Just something to think about.
    Todays 5mans where faceroll with questgear, with tier gear we just pulled faster and more.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Daetur View Post
    Daetur’s pretentious how-to-better-yourself after learning to play in Wrath post, incoming! Dare ye read it and take its words to heart? Or dare ye troll instead? One will fill me with warm joy and hope for the future, and the other will simply amuse me, so let’s get crackin’!

    This is my own comprehensive take on tips and tricks you should get used to before Cataclysm hits, for tanks, dps, and healers. Some of you may very well know these things, even if you have only played during Wrath. However, some of you may have never needed to use or think about them. Everyone has the potential to improve. I have things I need to improve on too, some of which are things I discuss here! I don’t think you suck personally, but I do think that we’ve ALL gotten complacent and rusty with Wrath of the Lich King. Players who started playing in Wrath never got the experience of Classic and BC where we once had to learn many of the lessons that will be invaluable come December 7th. It’s not their fault, but it needs to be addressed.

    Daetur’s credentials: Regular WoW player and raider since Classic; Has tanked, healed, melee and ranged dpsed all current content. 11/12 Hardmode experience. Cataclysm Beta tester.

    I play a hunter, a death knight dps, a druid tank/dps, a paladin healer/dps, and a shaman healer/dps.

    EVERYONE:
    1.) Be mindful of your positioning. Do these mobs have a knockback? Will you get thrown into other mobs? Is the tank facing the mob away from the group in case it has a conal or cleave? When trying to dodge that fire on the ground, are you running towards another group of mobs? These are things that you will need to be more mindful of in Cata. Extra pulls can and likely will mean wipes, and any damage that can be avoided will make your healer’s life that much easier, and make their mana last that much longer.

    ------> 1.a) If you do get aggro, run the offending mob TO your tank, not AWAY from him. Root or snare the mob that is aggroed on to you, and then move TO your tank so that the mob will run closer to them as well. This makes it much easier for your tank to peel the mob off of you, and will get you back into safety quicker.

    2.) Communicate with your group. It doesn’t matter if you’ve never seen these people before in your life. Ask who you should CC. Ask the tank to pop his CDs because you know you have trouble healing this pull. Ask if you have questions about an encounter (please, for god’s sake). Ask for a mana break. Don’t sit there like a deaf mute along for the ride and pray everyone else knows what they’re doing. Much of the Cataclysm content WILL take some organization.

    ------>2.a.) Take and give constructive criticism. If you wipe, try to figure out what went wrong and fix it without liberal use of “suck,” “noob,” “fail,” “ragequit,” etc. That will not get you any closer to downing the boss or the trash. It will only destroy any cohesion your group had, and angry players tend to perform worse than calm or happy players. Also, if someone else offers you criticism, don’t take it too personally. “Hey, hunter, can you step up the dps?,” is NOT a personal attack. Take responsibility for your actions! I’ve raided ICC hardmodes and played since Classic, and I still screw up. But, I have the balls to say “Sorry guys, bad tab target, completely my fault. I’ll be more careful,” or “Oh man, I just wasn’t paying attention, my bad. I know what the (fire)(acid)(defile) looks like now, I’ll watch more carefully next time.” And you should too! It keeps groups more cohesive, and makes errors clearer to everyone in the party so that no one has to play the blame game.

    3.) Keep your group’s best interests in mind. Pay attention to what is happening to your group members. Is a mob running for your healer or clothies? Root it, slow it, or stun it. Did you get an extra add? Try to help control them- slow, CC, etc.

    4.) Be patient! This is all new content, and your group is in leveling gear, not top-tier epics. These fights are not generally easy, and have some new mechanics to learn. If someone in the group needs to have the fight explained to them, don’t complain. If your groups wipes, run back in and try again. I’m sure you had to learn the fight at some point too. If the healer needs to stop for a mana break, don’t keep pulling or get impatient. Trust me, they are working hard to keep your group alive. DON’T expect 15-20 minute runs!

    5.) Be observant. Check out new buffs, debuffs, and spell effects. The more you know about what is around you and what mobs can do, the more effective you can be. Mages in particular, watch for TASTY Spellsteal fodder. You’ll be amazed at the buffs you can give yourself and take off of a foe.

    6.) Consumables!! Yes, that’s right! Health potions, mana potions, potions of speed! Well, mostly health and mana. Have them! Use them liberally if you have access to them! Mana potions in particular can give healers the extra mileage they need on a tough fight.
    =======================================================


    DAMAGE DEALERS (DPS):

    1.) If your target is casting and it can be interrupted, do it! Interrupts- not just for bosses! Interrupting spells being cast by your enemy will often go a long way towards reducing incoming damage. Try to watch casting mobs as you do the dungeon (over and over again, most likely), and try to see what spells are particularly nasty. AoEs are often good candidates for interrupts. This will also save your healer mana!

    ------> 1.a.) Bind your interrupt/stun/silence to an easy-to-reach key. If you only ever use ONE keybind, this should be it. I typically have mine bound to my scrollwheel or Shift+leftclick so that I can hit it as fast as possible. Your mileage may vary.

    ------> 1.b.) You can use a ranged interrupt or silence to help your tank gather spaced out caster mobs. The tank will, 9 times out of 10, greatly appreciate this, and it really helps with add control.

    2.) A dead DPS does NO dps! Remember, if you recklessly frontload all of your damage and aren’t careful, you can end up pulling off the tank. If you can frontload 12k burst dps, but only live for 4 seconds, that’s only 48k damage. Compare that to the careful dps who pulls 6k sustained and lives through the entire 60-second fight—that’s a whopping 360k overall damage to your 48k! Please be aware that many tanks have to “relearn” the new tanking style of Cataclysm, and most of us have had our AoE threat capabilities nerfed. Please stay on our target, or the marked target.

    ------>2.a.) This rule also applies to standing in ‘stuff.’ The faster you move out of it, the easier you make your healer’s life. Since mana will be more of an issue for healers in Cataclysm, the more mana you can save your healer, the better your group’s chances of survival.

    ------>2.b.) Use of defensive cooldowns, even as a dps, can really save your healer a lot of trouble. If you can anticipate incoming damage (un-interruptible AoE, or you got aggro somehow), pop a CD like Barkskin, Icebound Fortitude, etc. Also, with a bit more freedom in speccing in Cata, talents that increase healing done to you or reduce damage that you take can be very good candidates for your spec.

    3.) Be patient! Let your healer drink, let your tank mark and set up their pull, and let someone explain the fight if necessary.[/b] Remember, this content will be NEW to nearly everyone from 80-85. It is more difficult that WotLK content, and we will not be in top-end gear. We will be in leveling blues and greens. These fights will take preparation, caution, and learning. Once you know a dungeon by heart, remember that everyone starts somewhere, and that there was a point where you didn’t know the fight. Have patience with the others in your group, and help them learn.

    4.) Learn about your classes’ Crowd Control (CC) abilities. Before stepping into a Cataclysm dungeon, please note that some trash packs NEED to be Crowd Controlled (CCed). Familiarize yourself with the CC options available to your class, and the limitations of it. Does it only work on certain mob types? How long does it last? Does it break on damage? Use these abilities liberally to take dangerous mobs out of the fight while you deal with others. This is also a good technique to reduce tank and healer strain, and gives your group a better chance of success. Practice on your own—pull two or three mobs solo, out in the world, and try to keep one CCed the entire time you are killing the other(s).

    ------>4.a.) Don’t break the sheep! Be careful of cleaves and AoE abilities if there is a CCed mob nearby. Damage often breaks enemies out of CC, and they will then run rampant through your group. One of the WORST things you can do is place a DoT on a CCed target (I’m looking at you, Dks glyphed for increased Pestilence and Blood Boil range—for the record, I am one of you), since it will CONTINUALLY break the CC even if it is reapplied.

    5.) Learn to kite! Kiting involves slowing a mob and making it chase you away from or around your group while not hitting you. Mages and hunters in particular are known as great kiters. Death Knights can be quite good at it too, as they have both a taunt and Chains of Ice. This technique can be extremely helpful in situations where there are multiple powerful melee adds that cannot be CCed. If they are too much for your tank to handle together, a dps can often kite one until the other is dead, at which point the tank will take over. Rumor has it that a Heroic boss in a Cata dungeon requires that an add be kited for the ENTIRE fight! Are you up to the challenge?

    6.) Follow marks and kill orders! Focusing fire will be very important in Cata. We won’t be able to just AoE down every pull anymore. Usually, Skull will be first and X will be second. Crowd Control targets may also be marked. As a general rule, HEALER type mobs die first, followed by damaging casters, then melee.

    [b[7.) You are more than just “big numbers!”[/b] Simply because your role or spec is “dps” doesn’t mean you can’t throw out a heal, a dispel, or a cleanse, or even pick up a stray add. Did the healer just die? Does your class have some healing spells? Well, you’d BETTER have those on your bar, because it’s time to show what you’re made of. Pick up the healing and save your group! You can do so much more than just damage and occasional CC. Paladins, use Hand of Salvation on a party member that’s getting close to pulling aggro, or even Hand of Protection the mage! Remember, casters can continute to cast while HoPed, but melee can’t continue to use physical strikes. Misdirect or trap that accidental add pull! Throw out a cleanse to someone, innervate the healer if they’re low on mana! You have these great utility spells, but no one expects you to use them Time to prove them wrong and show that there’s a reason you’re like Wolverine. The best at what you do.


    ============================================================
    HEALERS:

    1.) Cleanse! Many healers in WotLK are more used to healing through debuffs instead of removing them. With mana being more of an issue in Cata, it will often be more efficient to remove damaging or heal-reducing debuffs as soon as possible, rather than try to heal through all the damage. Which debuffs are more expensive to heal through than cleanse will be something you have to learn on your own, but it will be important to keep cleansing in mind in Cataclysm content!

    2.) Conserve your mana! Mana is not going to last you anywhere near as long in Cata as it does now. Learn which heals are the most efficient, and get a feel for how much each one heals for. Knowing which heal to use when will be essential. AoE heal spam will not cut it anymore.

    ------>2.a.) Part of mana conservation is triage. Triage is deciding the priority of you ‘patients.’ As a general rule, if SOMEONE has to die, it should be the dps first, the tank second, and the healer last. This means, if you have to choose between saving a dps and yourself, save yourself. Between the tank and the healer does get more fuzzy, but remember that it’s possible for dps to burn something down with heals backing them up if the tank does die.

    3.) Predict incoming damage. Watch who the mob(s) is(are) targeting. Having an addon that shows who has threat is quite handy here, or just activate this feature in the standard WoW raid/arty interface. If you see an add turn to a dps, you know that that’s the one that will need heals. You shouldn’t be mindlessly spamming everyone in CASE they take damage anymore. You know the tank will be taking damage. But the key to be a great, efficient healer, is to be able to anticipate who ELSE in your group is going to get hurt.

    4.) Be ready for anything. Assume the worst. If you are about to start a pull that you have never healed before, it is safer to assume high spike damage than wait and see. Many healers get a nasty surprise when a new type of trash mobs hits like a freight train and they just weren’t ready for that kind of damage.
    =====================================================

    TANKS:

    1.) Don’t break CC! Pull mobs BACK and away from CCed adds. This will reduce the risk that CC will be broken by your own AoE tanking abilities and dps’ cleaves. It will help you hold threat because you do not need to watch your AoE and cleaves, and it will help your dps for the same reason.

    2.) Mark adds! You should know the drill—Skull on the first target to die, X on the second, mark CC targets with Square, Moon, etc. Focusing fire will be more important in Cataclysm. Packs cannot simply be AoEed down across the board. Typically, you’ll want to have your dps target enemy HEALERS first, then damage-dealing casters, and finally, melee.

    3.) Be liberal with your shorter cooldown CDs. Mitigating incoming damage will be essential in Cata. It will help conserve your healer’s mana. A particularly good time to hit your shorter defensive cooldowns (anything under 2 minutes) will be close to the start of a pull, when the most adds are alive, unless there is something special about the adds that makes them more dangerous later.

    4.) Use your stuns! Stuns are a great way to mitigate incoming damage, don’t forget it! They can also buy you time to get stable threat at the start of a pull, or stop a mob from running after a healer or dps when your taunt isn’t up.

    5.) CONTROL your pulls. Pull with restraint. Most tanks in WotLK (myself included) have gotten very, very accustomed to charging into a dungeon, foaming at the mouth, and pulling the first three groups all together. This is NOT going to fly in Cata, guys. You will get you furry/plate-wearing ass kicked. We will need to relearn how to pull with restraint. When you pull a group, range pull and drag them BACK instead of charging right into them. You can also have CCers pull from range and pick up the mobs as they head towards your group. Try not to aggro any extra mobs.

    6.) You are NOT the master of the group. Many tanks in WotLK have become rude and overconfident due largely to their short queue times. I can be guilty of this as well. Many have a tendency to treat the other members of their groups with the expectation that whatever THEY says goes, because the group cannon function without them. Please, I beg of you, if you are one of these tanks, remember that you cannot solo this content. You need your group as much as they need you.
    =================================================================
    Wow, are you guys still here, or did you just skip to the end?
    If, as I suspect, this was WAY too long and you didn’t care, here’s a brief summary.
    Be patient. Be observant. Communicate with your group. Own up to your mistakes. Learn as much about your class as you possibly can, and use all of your tricks. Learn to kite and Crowd Control. Learn to mitigate as much incoming damage as possible, even as a dps. Manage your mana. Think on your toes!
    Sooooo.... the same things as now? (except the mana thing)...

    What you need ot know about healing is that if the debuff is removable.. most healers will remove.. if not we heal through and you will find that most of the debuffs in Wrath were in fact.. NOT removabale.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by seam View Post
    Why sticky? If people are smart enough to come to mmo-c they are smart enough(I hope) to know everything here =\
    You might want to sit down for this one: they're not.

    Great post from OP, all the uncommon-sense things we need to know (Or did know and forgot in 2 years of AoE-ing everything) lined up while avoiding the "Don't suck lolz" or "Herp derp do guild runs" clichés that infest so many "What you need to know for Cataclysm"-posts...

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Pascal View Post
    yes.

    thank you for this post. however I'm afraid that the mass majority of wotlk players who will emoragequit multiple times in cata will not read this.
    I'm a vanilla player , I started with the first WoW closed beta , all I can say is GOOD RIDANCE to the emo-ragequit-qq-imature players . I'm tired of all the scrubs I encountered over the years in BC/WotLK , I mean the ones who don't even have the decency of gemming , enchantig their gear , reading strats for the raid boses or generaly failing at the ONE and MOST IMPORTANT RULE :

    DON'T STAND IN THE FIRE !!!!

    But as most of you know the ones I speak of are the ones who don't ever read a forum ... Even now when I go to Uld mount runs with one of my alts I will always see atleast 30% of the players that have NO IDEA of what strat you should use at the boss .

    Thanks for your post , hope it will help some beginers in Cata . I usualy do what you said there .... unfortunatly that means that my DPS is lower than in the cases where I tunnel vision (frost DPS) and all I care is about nuking the mob .

    I remember in the begining of BC when we did the shatered halls , we were 5 guildies (just dinged 70 with 70% of the gear from BWL/AQ40) 2 locks ..... we had to CC 2 targets each and nuke another ...... Fear+CoR and Seduce the other ..... the feeling after finishing such an epic pull was unbelivable (btw The Stattered Halls were insanely dificult at the launch) .
    Last edited by wvx; 2010-11-25 at 02:36 PM. Reason: BC reminder

  13. #73
    Field Marshal Hawthorne's Avatar
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    Thankfully I will be instancing with my guild and wont have to pug through Cataclysm. Good luck guys

  14. #74
    Stood in the Fire Melfeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ganette View Post
    the mechanices behind the 25 lk fight are stupid easy. and were infact "watered down" versions of tbc and vanilla content
    Oh, they were? What's that, you haven't even killed him? Even with the 30% buff? I'm sorry, but you're in no position to make such a claim. And to top it all off, it's wrong. If you'd have paid any attention to what Blizzard actually says, you'd know that it is the hardest encounter ever to have met the servers of WoW. Why do I say this? It might be because Blizzard said so themselves.
    Last edited by Melfeth; 2010-11-25 at 02:36 PM.

  15. #75
    Great post

  16. #76
    Blademaster casby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avlli View Post
    I totaly disagree. If you aren't RUDE when players sux at their jobe, they will never learn. Point is, most of good tanks don't like to teach players play the game they(the tanks) have played for over 4+years, it is way easier to leave the group and join another more mature/experienced/skilled group.

    IT is simpele: (from tank pov)
    tank sux =>group sux
    healer sux => group sux
    dps sux => horrible group ever.

    INDEED, no more carring in cata. You sux => go play another game.
    I'm going to have to call bull-ish on that. Being rude rarely ever works out. Either the person you're being rude to rages or you look like you're the one raging. Neither of which ends in continuing down the yellow brick road with a full-party. "You shouldn't use xyz" or "try doing 123 this next time" generally gets the point across. And for gods sake dont yell at someone in party chat. If you're gonna help, send them a whisper. If they rage or continue to ignore the hints, there is always the vote to kick button. If it's in party chat, make sure you say something that you'd be okay with someone saying to you. And please don't reply to this with "my epeen is so huge that i can take anything everyone says to me as constructive criticism cuz i r so leet."

    ps. this is not a dig.
    "shut up casby. you're dumb." -construct
    "casby is all, therefore you are casby, therefore casby is you, therefore you're arguing with yourself... and that is very un-casby." -dab
    "huh?" -casby
    "shush, casby. i'm trying to defend you here." -dab
    "how is that defending me?" -casby
    Construct leaves the group.
    "See. I embarrassed him." -dab

  17. #77
    The Patient etsumii's Avatar
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    Most of the things you've mentioned are, in fact, just common sense though.

  18. #78
    should be 'must read' before u can create ur first char

  19. #79
    The Lightbringer MonsieuRoberts's Avatar
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    Delicious information, thanks.
    "In short, people are idiots who don't really understand anything." - Seramore

    ~On hiatus 'till WoD~
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  20. #80
    sheshhh... not like anything new here.

    Well done will link to next stupid person

    *looks at person*
    [w to akuaku]: you idiot! read this http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...41#post9540041
    [from akuaku]: you idiot! read this http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...41#post9540041
    [w to akuaku]: fuck you!
    [from akuaku]: up yours
    akuaku makes a confused face.

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