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  1. #21
    Bad players will allways be bad.

  2. #22
    great post. i will be running heroics with my guild

    ---------- Post added 2010-11-23 at 05:21 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by grimwol View Post
    Very well said, Daetur! It brought back memories of how hard it was to convince people to run TO the tank if they pulled a mob. Those were good times. Like someone said, I won't be running PUGs anytime soon. Just wish more of the WOW community would take the time to read this!
    yeah usually they run as far away as they can then rage at the tank. so funny

  3. #23
    I have one argument. You advocate the use of roots/snares if a DPS pulls aggro. But if a mob gets rooted next to a healer, that mob will turn and kill the healer no matter who has aggro on it. It will also do this to another DPS. So if you are going to root/snare, do so away from your teammates.
    WoW having more subs than SWTOR is the same thing as Justin Bieber having more youtube plays than Tupac. Just because its more popular doesn't mean its good.

    Warcraft Lore has gone from one of the most vast and interesting stories in all of gaming to a bad Thrall Fanfic by Chris Metzen.

  4. #24
    Scarab Lord Buckwald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceberg265 View Post
    I have one argument. You advocate the use of roots/snares if a DPS pulls aggro. But if a mob gets rooted next to a healer, that mob will turn and kill the healer no matter who has aggro on it. It will also do this to another DPS. So if you are going to root/snare, do so away from your teammates.
    Or, if you need to root/snare in a pinch, people should be aware enough to move. That's a lot easier for a DPS to move when needed and might be tricky for heals, but dungeon/raid awareness is key.

  5. #25
    Thanks a lot for the effort, I sincerely hope people will take this to heart and learn from it. For all our sakes.

  6. #26
    I will be pugging as a healer soon as cata hits first thing in fact just to see if this is true

  7. #27
    I have about eight guildies who need to read this. But they won't, and they will always be bad, and they will hopefully never be in my runs :P
    But good post, really informative. I miss vanilla and TBC style dungeons/raiding. I miss mechanics in five mans that are lethal to even highly geared people. I miss wiping on trash (yeah, i said it). It got to the point in Wrath where i was so bored in five mans that i would just wand, or after the recent patch, moving scorch for no cost just cause i could and still win on dps.
    I'm hoping for difficult content that takes time to learn. LK was the only enjoyable fight in ICC for me, and besides him, Yogg, Algalon, heck all of Uld was good. I want more stuff like that.

    Recommend this post to those who need it. Let's try to break the AoE mindset. Can't wait for some wipes!

  8. #28
    High Overlord troufas's Avatar
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    Sticky this ASAP! The more that people read it, the better for all of us!

    @OP: If i were you i would post the same on the official forums.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by troufas View Post
    @OP: If i were you i would post the same on the official forums.
    Heh. I did, actually.

    Ironically, though, I did it on my Death Knight, haha.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Eyonath View Post
    Wrong. Wrath was not watered down HM 25m LK was by far the hardest fight I have ever experienced, and I have experienced every encounter as it was current content.
    Everyone who says what you say obviously has not cleared ALL WotLK content.
    The discussion at hand isn't about expansion-end bosses, it's about pre-raid 5 man content. Wrath had some nice bosses, creative mechanics, and at least one well designed raid. However, heroics have been an aoe fest since day one, and that needs to change. TBC was great because even once you started raiding, heroics were still hard and required coordination and CC. They could obviously still be facerolled with high levels of gear, but that level of gear wasn't available to your average player.

    Nothing can shake my believe that this world is the fruit of a dark god whose shadow I extend -- Emil Cioran

  11. #31
    High Overlord
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    Meh by the 3rd raid patch we'll be overgeared and facerolling these too

    My first HC in wotlk was in Gundrak HC with a full group in quest greens and blues and was anything but faceroll as I remember. Snakeballs all round =)

  12. #32
    Stood in the Fire cydri's Avatar
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    You should probably add a section for people who will write TLDR, something like if reading a few paragraphs is too time consuming for you, maybe skip playing cata?

    :P

    Good list.

  13. #33
    I'm ready for Cat instances.

    Glyphed poly to undot my sheep.
    Focus macro for the said sheep.
    It's the internet. You never know if people are either sarcastic or just bad.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by ganette View Post
    yes it was....you went through many months of aoe spamming, and even the H25LK fight was the same...if you saw lady vashj, or kael in tbc, then you knew hard fights... and before you ask no we didnt get Hlk25 we did get every other fight in this expansion though, and ONLY H25lk fight offered any REAL difficulty, and not because the fight itself was hard, but because the players themselves had been "brainwashed" that they could just sit still and take it and it would be ok throughout all of wotlk.... the mechanices behind the 25 lk fight are stupid easy. and were infact "watered down" versions of tbc and vanilla content. we are finally getting back to that in cata, where bosses dont have to hit for 75k a strike, because the mechanics in place are hard enough that its unnecessary. if youve played beta, you will agree with me im sure.
    Most of pre-nerf ulduar was very challenging, though admittedly the fact that they nerfed it takes away from it a bit. I'd also go out on a limb and say 0% buff icc heroics were challenging as well. People seem to forget that the buff is what made it faceroll, especially for people who didn't get to 11/12 until 15%+.

    Sure, heroic LK was the hardest, but it was not the only hard encounter and definitely not the only fun one.

  15. #35
    Great post, this should definitely be stickied!

    I'm waiting in great anticipation how the "WotLK-mentality" fares when Cata hits, I'm quite sure it does not. And yes, I'm going to be running the dungeons and their heroic versions with friends and guildies, I can't actually wait!

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Daetur View Post
    6.) You are NOT the master of the group.
    I agree with everything except this. When the content gets tough it is very, very important that there is one person that knows all the pulls, sets the kill order, decides what to CC and makes sure nothing is pulled before the group is ready. This could in theory be anyone, but in practice it will always be the tank.

    So: You ARE the master of the group. It is your responsibility to know every pull and every boss. Lay out the kill orders, CC and tactics. Tell the group to stop when the healer needs to drink and tell the group to go when everyone is ready. In WotLK groups didn't need leaders since everyone could just charge in and go all out AoE. All the stupid things that people pulled in WotLK dungeons that could be easily fixed by the tank will now wipe your group in Cata, you cannot let this happen.

  17. #37
    great post, but the avarage WOTLK player isnt even used to waste himself on reading this.

    ---------- Post added 2010-11-25 at 01:56 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Brett Skullcrack View Post
    I agree with everything except this. When the content gets tough it is very, very important that there is one person that knows all the pulls, sets the kill order, decides what to CC and makes sure nothing is pulled before the group is ready. This could in theory be anyone, but in practice it will always be the tank.

    So: You ARE the master of the group. It is your responsibility to know every pull and every boss. Lay out the kill orders, CC and tactics. Tell the group to stop when the healer needs to drink and tell the group to go when everyone is ready. In WotLK groups didn't need leaders since everyone could just charge in and go all out AoE. All the stupid things that people pulled in WotLK dungeons that could be easily fixed by the tank will now wipe your group in Cata, you cannot let this happen.
    actually anyone can do this job, and expierience has proven that tanks are not the best solution for this.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by ripponesan View Post
    actually anyone can do this job, and expierience has proven that tanks are not the best solution for this.
    Like I wrote, anyone can do it in theory. Experience has proven that in practice it must be the tanks.

  19. #39
    Epic! twistedsista's Avatar
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    a spot on post, mate. absolutely spot on. can i just edit this post & say it should be copied & pasted on every realm forum available

  20. #40
    Stood in the Fire palamanian's Avatar
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    I agree 100% with everything except the "WOTLK Player" part. Players that ignore these rules have been doing it since the beginning.

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