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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Andok View Post
    Also, in Wrath, gear progression was terrible. Instead of the natural fresh 70-normal-heroic-next tier progression, it was fresh 80-heroic-ToC-ICC. Hope that will be fixed, and I think each raid tier (including heroic) should only give badges that can be used to buy gear one tier above, instead of 3 tiers above.
    You're missing the point. The idea is that points from heroics put you 1-2 tiers below the current normal mode (2-3 tiers below current heroic mode), so that somebody could actually get into raiding with a character.
    The way you suggest basically means that nobody would ever realistically get into raiding if they joined after the first few content patches, because they would have to farm outdated content to try and catch up with others. Think about that

  2. #242
    Will the terrible players actually read this and learn from it or insist on remaining bad?

  3. #243
    People that dosent know this already should quit the game.. Unless they are totaly new.

  4. #244
    I stopped reading at your credentials. Sorry.

  5. #245
    Mechagnome Ademptio's Avatar
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    Very nice post, I started playing in TBC just before wotlk. On Frostmane EU, got ganked like mad and then changed to ER a RP realm quiet and peacefull. The moment i got my pally to 70 3 weeks later WOTLK came out so i got no raid experience. Now i have a 80 with tier 10 of every class. And yes I have seen all all the fights in the game currently. And heard all the stories of 1 weeks clearing molten core... or hard tbc heroics where you had to use tactics. Now i played beta straight from WOTLK live. But i was familiar with hardcore raiding alrdy by now. But the majority of ppl in beta werent. And you could easly spot the difference between pre tbc players and wotlk starters. This post should be on front page of Blizz

  6. #246
    +1000

    As a tank for the majority of WotLK, and probably being a tank in Cataclysm I can't stress enough the amount of restraint that will have to be practiced for "Cata".

    Hybrids, you really need to step up. Paladins (ret) remember your talents and how they are trying to force you to play as a hybrid class IE. //Selfless Healer// (I'd link it but new users are not allowed to put links in posts.). If your not interested in playing a hybrid class, please re-roll, I have a mild feeling hybrid classes will be just that in cataclysm.

    +1000 again Daetur.

    Great post!

  7. #247

    My beta experience

    So, I was lucky enough to get to play beta (omg omg omg it was amazing!) and ill give a bit of imput from what i've seen that i did not see touched on (i did not read the entire thread, just some comments and the OP).

    1. when i did my first instance, it was on my dps warrior and it was blackrock caverns. we wiped 3 times on the first pull because most of us were still in wrath gear and mindset. by the time i had finished most of hyjal i went back and did it again, and we facerolled it pretty easily without much worry about CC. i also did throne of the tides pretty early on, and again, i was owned in the face. but when i went back in some cata gear...i still got destroyed. the dungeons, as of beta, were pretty different in levels of difficulty. some of them were a bit difficult, some of them were actually very hard. this goes into my next point....

    2. heroics. be ready to want to cry and smash blizzard in the head with blunt objects while people get back into the groove of difficult heroics. there is one pull in particular that comes to mind, heroic halls of origination. it is 3 smaller mobs and 1 big one, 3 of which use devestating aoe that if you are near and dont interrupt, you will die within a few seconds. there are a few pulls sort of like this, and each one had my groups (usually made up of my guildies, many of which were pretty regular raiders) corpse running at least several times per instance. however, going in to heroic blackrock i had very little issue ever (still lots of deaths, but never several deaths on the same pull). SFK was pretty hard, and grim batol was insanely difficult. so, unlike regulars, the difference from instance to instance can make a group pretty much incapable of completing certain ones. which will, ofcourse, cause some ragequit.

    3. there being a severe lack of epics you can obtain without raiding (rep, pvp and crafting can get you some) we are going to go back to the way vanilla was, methinks, where having epics really MEANT something. i think it will be easier to discern who is a good player (or at least experienced in content) based on gear much more than was possible in wrath. getting tier 10 gear without ever raiding was possible. this isnt the case with cata (as yet).

    4. it was mentioned in the OP to have consumables, but it is very important, i found, to have more than just health and mana pots. the food buffs and scrolls and things dont do as much anymore (an increase of 80 stam is a lot less overall when you have 180,000 life), but there are also other very helpful little things to keep around. elixirs are easy to make, and can be an incredible boon on the really hard fights. engineering items to stun a mob, even for a few seconds, really helps.

    5. the OP mentioned to learn your CC, but more than just that, learn all your skills. leap of faith ("life grip"), for instance, saved me from getting pummelled in the face on my warrior while trying to keep clothies alive. hamstring, chains of ice, conc shot etc are all incredibly helpful for slowing a single mob at the onset of a pull to break it up so you can down a mob before the next gets to you. use mind vision to see when pats are coming, mind soothe that group on the right before going to x boss so you can skip them without pulling, even if the shaman puts his totems in the wrong place. every class has a lot of skills that have changed quite a bit since we last really needed to use them very often. hunters can still fear animals, but when was the last time you saw that used in an instance?

    6. this is one i really noticed having an effect on wipes in cata that wasnt really the case in wrath, and even in BC it was less-so: stay behind the tank! there are a good amount of pats in the instances, and a single pat can destroy your group. getting even 1 extra mob in a heroic (if it is the wrong type of mob) can drop you all very quickly. there are even a few bosses that pat around that i saw pulled because overzealous/impatient people ran up to do the next pull.

    7. as was mentioned, threat is different now. we can just consecrate and spam hammer and keep 40 mobs on us with ease anymore. so remember the "three sunder rule"! even though we have 4 tank classes now, only 2 of which have a regular "sunder" type skill (druid lacerate and sunder, as faerie fire can do 3 stacks at once), the idea remains the same. WAIT FOR AGGRO. if you notice your aggro is getting high, use your skills to drop it. cower and feignt, use ice block just after a large string of crits, or use fade before you pop those cooldowns to start ripping mobs apart. know your threat like we didnt used to need to.

    8. finally, cata is pretty likely to bring back a plethora of old players that havent played in some time, and will probably bring in a lot of brand new players as well. things are very different than just a few years ago, so have patience with people who havent had a chance to test out the new mechanics in beta or with the cata patch on live. the game is nowhere near "complex" on it surface, but learning if you should stack haste or mastery, go for ice lance over frost bolt, or what lock pet to use when is going to take awhile for people to get used to. you are going to die a lot. the mobs are scary again. dont get your knickers in a twist over it or you will ruin the fun for yourself and your group.

    cata is a much larger challenge than wrath was, even just out of the gate. but the bit ive gotten to play, it is extremely worth it. but keep in mind with the game changing so much even the elite amongst us will need to adjust to lots of things, so imagine what it will be like for people who havent played in a long time, or are fresh to mmos, or are just casuals.

  8. #248
    i wonder what the dungeon queues will be like for the first dungeons in cata on December 7th.

    im 13 so i still go to school(OFC :P) ill probably go to the Local game Store after school and when i get home geek Cata and since i got 3 80's that is DPS and just 1 that is tank im wondering if it will be big differences between DPS,Tanks and healers in the Queues the first days.

    BTW i have played wow since i was 9. I have raided a little bit in Vanilla raided Magtheridon's Lair and SSC in TBC i stopped playing since my account got hacked (Twice) and started playing 14th December 2008 in WotLK and been geeking until now and i wont say i wont tomorow. The Day after Tomorow and so on Cant wait for Cata.

    Nice Post dude Much helpful stuff. To bad most of the Wrath Players (by wrath Players i mean those who stand in defile etc.) arent going to read it

  9. #249

  10. #250
    Wow! You know, you hear a lot about how the beta testers talked about how hard Cata is going to be. In fact, you hear it so much that you kind of just assume that maybe people may be over exaggerating a little when it come to Cata difficulty!
    But reading this post kind of makes me think that you're a little worried about the surprise people will get coming out of WotLK and into Cata. Which leads me to believe that Cata really IS going to be a lot harder!

    I've been playing WoW and raiding in Pre-BC content, and I really really do miss it! Even BC content had such "rich" and "satisfying" content compared to WotLK. I mean take Karazhan for example... The story and encounters alone were, at least for me, the most interesting events in WoW history. Not to mention ZA, which was added in a later patch during BC.

    I was looking forward to Cata content...but now i have to say I'm more excited than I have ever been for Cata. Now we can get a challenge anytime we want, and not just on 1 encounter in the entire expantion (aka H 25m LK).

    I hope people that really need to read this actually do. Cause like I've seen in the other replies to this thread, I'm worried about Blizz caving to all the people who will cry about heroics being to hard. My reply to these people is...if you can't stop failing at Cata content, then stop QQ'ing and go play Mario Cart! ...but not the one on Nintendo 64...that one might be to hard for ya...

    Thanks Daetur! Awesome post!

  11. #251
    Fantastic post. I've played since Vanilla and I agree almost completely with what you say.
    One thing I would say:
    Healers
    2a) In raiding situations it's also possible to heal the tank in lieu of yourself. Remember in raids there more healers and caster dps(druid/shams) that can pick up healing if a healer dies, but it is much harder for a dps to tank and not get one or two-shot. Unless the higher health pools will make that viable, not sure.

    And don't forget the adage "If the healer dies its the tanks fault, if the tank dies its the healers fault and if the dps dies its their own fault" as a general rule.

  12. #252
    Brewmaster Cairm's Avatar
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    Hope this help some ''noob'' to not ''suck'', ''fail'' and ''ragequit''
    <3 thanks for the guide :P

  13. #253
    It's funny. As a Vanilla player, I feel most of the OP's original information are just things people should already know.

    Is it possible people really *don't* know this information? How have they not figured it out by level 80?

    It boggles the mind, I tell you! O_o

  14. #254
    My problem with this post is simple: The people who need to read it are the people who won't read it or mmo-champion at all.

    My LFG runs over the last few weeks have been full of people who will simply fail in Cata, and this worries me. I'm effectively the only person in my guild, and am starting to wonder if I should recruit some select people.
    Shadowsong EU: Tyler [85 Warrior] .: Durden [85 Priest] .: Palahniuk [85 Warlock] .: Boeddeker [85 Shaman] .: Cronenweth [85 Druid] .: Uhls [85 Paladin] .: Chesler [85 Mage] .: Fincher [85 Hunter] .: Paulson [85 Rogue] .: Lichborne [85 Death Knight] Magtheridon EU: Uhls [82 Paladin] Trollbane EU: Acro [81 Death Knight] Blade's Edge EU: Cronenweth [83 Druid]

  15. #255
    The Patient ericyeahright's Avatar
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    Very well put sir.

  16. #256
    I think this game needs to go back to exclusive elitism, like in Vanilla. Let the people who bother to learn the game properly be rewarded. : /

  17. #257
    one more thing i forgot to mention:

    when you ding 81, your hit and crit and haste will all drop a LOT. the difference in stat ratings from 80 to 85 are absurd, whereas with the previous expansion it wasnt quite as much of a drop in stats. so when you are 83 and pulling less dps than you did in ICC pre-buff, and everyone else is too, dont fret. until you get into higher items at 85 you will have to play a bit differently for some classes. warriors rage works very differently now, haste affects things differently. while those changes are on live, while leveling they will effect your gameplay quite a bit. my suggestion? learn what stats you need early on, and reforge like a madman. with mastery in game, spell power gone (mostly), spirit being almost completely useless for anything but healers, your stat allocations are going to need to be tailored to new kinds of builds. "cookie-cutter" builds already were less important in beta than in wrath, with a choice of gameplay on mastery or haste, tanking with more parry or mastery. how you play now will change.

  18. #258
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Eyonath View Post
    Wrong. Wrath was not watered down HM 25m LK was by far the hardest fight I have ever experienced, and I have experienced every encounter as it was current content.
    Everyone who says what you say obviously has not cleared ALL WotLK content.
    who the heck cares if one encounter was good enough? how many encounters were there total in wotlk? 50?60?70? and you're saying that WOTLK wasnt watered down because of ONE, SINGLE encounter that required you to do every single encounter in the raid? - that wasnt available from the 1st week? that we had to wait ONE YEAR for? really?

  19. #259
    Stood in the Fire TyralisUH's Avatar
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    Overall , it says : Be perfect.

  20. #260
    Thank you for the awesome post. As a healer and a retired tank, i for one am looking forward to slowing down the dungeons and hopefully bring down some of the "god/holier then tho" attitudes out there

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