What Wrath players need to know to not suck at Cata!

[Puntar]

There is something missing.

* Do not engage the encounter in the very limited environment, where camera position can change unexpectedly (due to a nature of camera movement near walls) and can obscure your pov. You can get killed very quickly (even as tank in some cases) as you can easily miss an important "info" while camera gets wonky, with healer being stunned & tank at 40% hp.

Heroic HoR is the prime example of this!

I never understand why are people insisting to do it in the alcove. It annoying and frustrating for both tank and healer!

I have been here numerous time and only 1, once I was doing it in the open, at the entrance (as a dps dk) . After 2 wipes in the alcove I persuaded the others to do it there and ... we were successful on first attempt.

Having a open view of the encounter & surroundings and mobs engaged is THE KEY to overcome all odds game throws at the group (in 5m or raid)

In the HoR's alcove players are fighting against one additional random roll - auto camera movement near wall.

[penpen002]

Bravo, bravo, bravo!
Now the only issue at hand is getting people to do these, lol.

[DiscoMoonkin]

thank god i already do everything in the post......

shit happens,

its a fact,

rage quitting over a freak accident dont solve anything.....

pretty much agree with everything the op said

[morlem]

i really really love how everybody thinks that anybody who started at wotlk is a mouth breathing dumbass who has no commonsense and cant play wow out of a paperbag.

[Deleted]

This for sticky idd. Just sad that the great mass of wotlk players wont follow this.

As a healer I would say the same. When I look at the players who I encounter in the 5 man heros, I would say 90 % of them is going to have a really hard time in Cata from what I heard about the difference in playing which seems to be needed. Most of them just rush out of healing range expecting me to run after them instantly or keep standing in the coloured flame things on the ground, waiting for them to fade and for me to heal (most of them drop dead though after a few seconds ^^ ). I look forward to Cataclysm hoping some of these people will learn how to play again and stop that stupid and boring "rush...rush...BÄM...aoe...rush...bäm...aoe".

This is a very good guide. I'd like to copy it to some of the German boards if I'm allowed to. Maybe some people will read AND unterstand it. ;-)

[Daetur]

There is something missing.

* Do not engage the encounter in the very limited environment, where camera position can change unexpectedly (due to a nature of camera movement near walls) and can obscure your pov. You can get killed very quickly (even as tank in some cases) as you can easily miss an important "info" while camera gets wonky, with healer being stunned & tank at 40% hp.

Heroic HoR is the prime example of this!

I never understand why are people insisting to do it in the alcove. It annoying and frustrating for both tank and healer!

I have been here numerous time and only 1, once I was doing it in the open, at the entrance (as a dps dk) . After 2 wipes in the alcove I persuaded the others to do it there and ... we were successful on first attempt.

Having a open view of the encounter & surroundings and mobs engaged is THE KEY to overcome all odds game throws at the group (in 5m or raid)

In the HoR's alcove players are fighting against one additional random roll - auto camera movement near wall.

I tank as a bear. Until 4.0.1, we had absolutely no way other than LoS to get caster mobs grouped up, so I found using the alcove to be far better than trying to maintain control out in the open. I never had any issues with losing 'information' due to camera angles and PoV, because I turn on floating nameplates for enemies, and have a UI where all the information I need is very visible. Having done H HoR both in and out of the alcove as a ranged dps, melee dps, healer, and tank, I have got to say that I disagree with you here, and truly prefer to fight near the alcove for line of sight. The real key, I think, is to move out from the corners of the alcove once the mobs are grouped up as desired, and not stand in the corners like a naughty child.

That said, different strokes for different folks, and if you prefer the open, power to you. I just know that I never have and never will fight H HoR like that unless I have to.

The only reason I don't think I would add a tip like that would be because there are so many UI elements and options that allow you to get all the information you need without the use of your camera. While it is always better to have visibility, it's not going to be as essential, universally applicable, or basic as some of the other things here.

I love replies like this, though, so thank you very much, and it actually is a good note, don't think that I'm trying to say that visibility is worthless or something. This is just more the sort of thing that I'd put into a more 'advanced' version of this post, should I ever choose to do that.

i really really love how everybody thinks that anybody who started at wotlk is a mouth breathing dumbass who has no commonsense and cant play wow out of a paperbag.

Heh heh. Try reading my third paragraph a bit more carefully.

"My working definition of "Wrath Player" is not someone who started playing during Wrath. It includes everyone who PLAYED the game during the WotLK expansion. So, yes, this means me. And all of you BC and Classic players. We've all developed bad habits from Wrath that we may need to think about breaking before Cata."

This is a very good guide. I'd like to copy it to some of the German boards if I'm allowed to. Maybe some people will read AND unterstand it. ;-)

You can take this wherever you like. I'm flattered!

[Ulfhedinn]

I love all the people that have fictional memory. We out geared instances before wrath and it isn't any different now and won't be in Cat.....

Classic vanilla required a lot of time and effort to out gear instances in any way. By the time you had a character that would be considered over geared for 5 mans you probably had your class and the dungeons mechanics mastered. Back then even dps had to know how the pulls worked. TBC was much the same way with heroics only it took a bit more effort.

The faceroll that is wrath heroics was never reached by anything other than the best raiding guilds before wrath. Pugs never could perform in the way they do now. Only an insane person would think that every single pug with bad dps could pull off the runs pugs do now. I have run more heroic randoms than I care to remember that had one or more members at lower dps than anyone at 70.

What is even worse is arguing his points are wrong because of this. Sorry but if everyone did what he posted now heroics would be even faster and Pugs would be able to clear a lot more of ICC.

As a final point, unless your group was full sunwell geared you could not run through heroic magisters and completely ignore fight mechanics while pulling sever groups at a time. There is not one instance in wotlk that is anywhere near as hard as that instance was.

To say it is our gear that is making wotlk as easy as it is makes you crazy, an idiot, or a troll.

[Deleted]

Hello Dudes n Dudettes,

Great posts above BTW and I found Daetur post informative and I feel very excited for Cata now as I loved the 5mans in TBC and the tactics but I’m hoping someone here will enlighten me on group make ups, When TBC came out I was in my Hunter faze and the group make ups where ridicules some times “oh you’re not Survival build sorry” or “LFM Hunter ?/?/37 build” because it was new and because it was CC needed it pushed a lot on class and spec to make the best group and don’t get me started on the drop rates of Hunter kit in TBC that’s why I quite my Hunter sick of seeing Shamy kit or nothing.

Well I’m in my Rogue faze and with SAP only being a CC for 60secs (OoC) and can’t re-apply unless vanish I don’t see why a group would want a rogue in the new 5man’s with heavy CC. I guess my question or problem is do I leave my Rogue at 80 and level my Pally (DPS/Heal/Tank) as that class has more options on group makeup. Personally Mage look like the No1 CC & DPS class to pick also bufs and food n drink ok I guess I’m feeling very sorry for my Rogue so I will stop ranting and sorry if this is in the wrong section.

Thanks

[Daetur]

Hello Dudes n Dudettes,

Great posts above BTW and I found Daetur post informative and I feel very excited for Cata now as I loved the 5mans in TBC and the tactics but I’m hoping someone here will enlighten me on group make ups, When TBC came out I was in my Hunter faze and the group make ups where ridicules some times “oh you’re not Survival build sorry” or “LFM Hunter ?/?/37 build” because it was new and because it was CC needed it pushed a lot on class and spec to make the best group and don’t get me started on the drop rates of Hunter kit in TBC that’s why I quite my Hunter sick of seeing Shamy kit or nothing.

Well I’m in my Rogue faze and with SAP only being a CC for 60secs (OoC) and can’t re-apply unless vanish I don’t see why a group would want a rogue in the new 5man’s with heavy CC. I guess my question or problem is do I leave my Rogue at 80 and level my Pally (DPS/Heal/Tank) as that class has more options on group makeup. Personally Mage look like the No1 CC & DPS class to pick also bufs and food n drink ok I guess I’m feeling very sorry for my Rogue so I will stop ranting and sorry if this is in the wrong section.

Thanks

Actually, I had similar concerns, because I play a DK as my main, and we have no significant form of CC.

However, don't despair! While CC is "required" or, at least, EXTREMELY helpful for some pulls, it's not going to be like Magister's Terrace where you need 3 CCs running at the same time. Usually, you'll only need to use one, and the chances of you having a group with one form of Crowd Control is very, very high. In addition, a 60 second sap is a decent duration. If your group hasn't brought down at least of of the not-CCed mobs withing 60 seconds, something's probably wrong.

Also, you can be useful in other ways! You bring high damage and reliable interrupts, and you also have damage mitigating and self-healing (recuperate) abilities that will lighten the load on the healer if necessary.

As the OP of this thread, I assure you, you won't be 'worthless' because you can't CC. While it will be necessary at the beginning of this expansion, until we overgear the content, Blizzard planned well so that we won't have a repeat of "Oh, no CC? Well, GL getting a group, lolololol!"

The only dps, I believe, with no CC are:
Warriors
Death Knights

The chances of you having a party made entirely of warriors and DK dps, with a priest or paladin healer, is quite slim, and even that composition will get you a lot of reliable interrupts and even some stuns to help mitigate the lack of CC.

If you love your rogue, level him, and play him well!! I wouldn't worry. Sap will serve you just fine.

[Coldology]

Great post.

[Brazinger]

Wrong. Wrath was not watered down HM 25m LK was by far the hardest fight I have ever experienced, and I have experienced every encounter as it was current content.
Everyone who says what you say obviously has not cleared ALL WotLK content.

I have completed all of Wotlk's content and say, that Wotlk was the most ridiculous version of WoW, I have ever played... By difficulty, that is.

As for the original post:
A great post and I agree with every single suggestion here!
I truly hope, that the difficutly and challenge of previous expansions is back as it was in the beta, where it really was hard.

[ramajuko]

OP has a great post, I'm gonna have to shake off some of the rust gathered from easymode WOTLK. Nobody should be taking this personally, I'm a classic raider and I freely admit that Wrath made me bad.

[Brakthir]

I have completed all of Wotlk's content and say, that Wotlk was the most ridiculous version of WoW, I have ever played... By difficulty, that is.

As for the original post:
A great post and I agree with every single suggestion here!
I truly hope, that the difficutly and challenge of previous expansions is back as it was in the beta, where it really was hard.

Then you're full of shit, because if you've truly completed all content when it was actual content, you'd know it was harder than BC or Vanilla.

[Despy]

I dont quite get why everyone love this post.

Its just obvious facts posted in the most patronizing fashion possible.

And some weird shot at every tank to play in wrath.

[Daetur]

I dont quite get why everyone love this post.

Its just obvious facts posted in the most patronizing fashion possible.

And some weird shot at every tank to play in wrath.

It's only a shot if that's how you act.

[Despy]

It's only a shot if that's how you act.

Because of their q times? Thats why their arrogant?

Also things like "prioritize healing the tanks/healers over the dps" how dumb do you think the average wrath player is? Wrath might not have been as hard as bc but it wasnt hello kitty island either. It would have been nice to have something in your post that other than "mana is an issue" that applied only to cata not learning wow 101.

[Yooya]

I have completed all of Wotlk's content and say, that Wotlk was the most ridiculous version of WoW, I have ever played... By difficulty, that is.

As for the original post:
A great post and I agree with every single suggestion here!
I truly hope, that the difficutly and challenge of previous expansions is back as it was in the beta, where it really was hard.

You're a Keyboard Turner therefore anything you say is irrelevant.

On that note, come on guys, Wrath of the Lich King wasn't as bad as people make it out. Anyone who played Vanilla knows that they had at least 10 people of ultimate suckage in their 40 man. If anything Vanilla raised a worst generation then Wrath has. I mean look how many people are posting "Vanilla was harder" and they haven't cleared a damn thing in Wrath? Nostalgia is a bitch.

Good post, but I think your target audience isn't the only one you need to reach out to.

[Deleted]

Lovely thread! Thanks a bunch for this one

[Liesarra]

Bad players have always been bad players if they infact do not work on it. And saying WOTLK players, meehhh thats pretty lame, ok i can agree many people that joined in WOTLK dident have allot of experience, but if u give those people time they will become better and if they do not take the time to become better then " bad players will always be bad" idd. I know many players that started in WOTLK and idd are were elite players now, and know their game. so saying WOTLK players would be pretty silly, i would rather say what players need to know in general

anyhow a wery nice post and its realy awsome that u are wiling from ur freetime to tell people some tips on how to play =)

[klurejr]

To the OP, Great post!

I know for many who started playing in WOTLK this is going to be a somewhat painful process, the same process that we vanilla and BC players had to face when heroics were hard back in BC. I recently started playing my hunter again now that they use focus instead of mana, and while lvling this past week or so and running plenty of dungeons I tried to practice trapping, kiting and other methods of CC. I specifically went with a surv build just to make my build better for CC.

I for one really look forward to having to CC mobs again, put slightly more skill back into the players and make dungeons more about teamwork then DPS races.