1. #10461
    I am Murloc! Xuvial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyanotical View Post
    what most people seem to forget that at high levels of intense game play, whether it's counterstrike or guitar hero, top players play pro-actively, not re-actively, meaning that all this nonsense about reaction time is pointless, only a bambi reacts
    I would go as far as saying it's 50/50 in first person shooters, you can only be proactive to a certain extent. The moment you feel (or hear) a bullet impact from behind your character and know you have 0.5 seconds to live unless you do something, it's all reaction from there.

  2. #10462
    Epic! Idrinkwhiterussians's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltrusDisc View Post
    Do you mean Rogue the brewery?
    I do indeed. Dead guys abound...

    Anyway, cleaning will commence later today and I should have pics up by tomorrow afternoon
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyanotical View Post
    anyone want doughnuts? i hear there is a great shop in Vancouver

  3. #10463
    Quote Originally Posted by Xuvial View Post
    I would go as far as saying it's 50/50 in first person shooters, you can only be proactive to a certain extent. The moment you feel (or hear) a bullet impact from behind your character and know you have 0.5 seconds to live unless you do something, it's all reaction from there.

    Pro CS is like 90% pre aim 10% twitch not 50/50

  4. #10464
    Firstly, the frame doesn't "arrive at your fingers", it arrives to your eyes.
    When your brain sends a signal to motor neurons in your fingers it most certainly arrives at your fingers unless you have a neurodegenerative disease.
    Light from your monitor hitting your eyes starts the the process of reacting, it doesn't end it.

    Secondly, additional frames are only rendered AFTER you input further controls (e.g. move the mouse), not before.
    Games render frames constantly whether you're moving or not. Reaction time is a combination of the time it takes for you to become aware of a difference in game state and the time it takes you to actually do something with that information.

    How can the game render something to your left when you haven't turned left to look over there?
    Reaction time is responding to things -- if a fire appears under your feat the game world will know about it before you do because the instant that event happens it won't have been drawn to the display yet. Likewise for an enemy running into view. You don't need to do anything in order for a reaction to be required.

    If you're turning left and an enemy comes into view -- it's still going to be upwards of 10 frames on a 60hz display before your brain becomes aware of the "event" that demands a response and sends appropriate signals to your fingers. My argument goes that "if an extra 30 frames were drawn in that time it takes to react you don't really gain anything in terms of reaction time, but you'll experience the motion of your character on screen or the panning of the camera as being more fluid.

    I.e. there is a chance of you moving your mouse at the beginning of a frame and the monitor not displaying that movement until 16ms have passed until the next frame has been displayed. 120hz reduces that maximum response time to 8ms, which is excellent especially in fast-paced games.
    It's good to refresh the screen quicker - Microsoft built a really impressive rig to test how small you need to make input latency before it becomes unnoticable and they found it was down around 10ms. Noticing input latency is different from reacting to something and I mentioned that explicilty at the end of my post: you can notice the smoothness of motion). That's true for any game or even any application: lower input latency means your drawing application cursor more closely tracks your pen-tip. It's one of the reasons drawing on a Surface tablet feels better than doing it on an iPad.

    As to the rest of your post, look up what screen tearing and ghosting is, and what 120hz does to address those.
    Those are image quality benefits - they make things look much nicer. They won't make you react any quicker.

    ...Your point being? You're the one obsessing over it in the first place.
    That somebody who is curious about the reasons to prefer a particular technology should be told the truth about its advantages: IPS displays with high refresh rates look nicer than TN displays: they tend to have better color reproduction, less blurring, they often support 3D, they have better view angles, etc. Getting lost in talk about something that is nonsense (reaction times) means he doesn't have the information to make an informed decision. He might opt for a cheaper panel because "he's not a pro gamer" when the better viewing angle would have been a boon for him because he often watches movies on his screen while riding an exercise bike in the corner of the room.
    Last edited by evn; 2013-03-01 at 06:03 PM.

  5. #10465
    Elemental Lord Drunkenvalley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evn View Post
    Those are image quality benefits - they make things look much nicer. They won't make you react any quicker.
    ...Your point being? You're the one obsessing over it in the first place.

  6. #10466
    Here's my little corner of the house.



    Just finished putting together the new build.




    Case: Mountain Mods U2-UFO
    CPU: I5-3570K
    Motherboard: Asus Maximus V Formula
    GPU: Asus 660TI DC2
    PSU: sleeved Corsair HX750
    HSF: Corsair H100i
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    RAM: 8gb G.Skill RipjawsX

    Monitor1: Samsung 27" LED
    Monitor2: AOC 24" LCD
    Keyboard: Razer BlackWidow
    Mouse: steelseries Legendary Wow mouse (i love it =P)

    Going to give it a few days to let the tim burn in before I start the overclock.

  7. #10467
    Dreadlord Stravs's Avatar
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    love that case Jay but is it noisy with all them fans?
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  8. #10468
    Quote Originally Posted by Stravs View Post
    love that case Jay but is it noisy with all them fans?
    Actually, its pretty dang silent. I have a fan controller so I set them to the lowest setting possible, and the air coming out the top is pretty chilly. The little space heater under my desk makes more noise

  9. #10469
    The Insane DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stravs View Post
    love that case Jay but is it noisy with all them fans?
    Why assume that a lot of fans is a lot of sound? It's a Mountain Mods case with what looks like a fan controller. I'd consider that probably quite silent...
    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
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  10. #10470
    Quote Originally Posted by DeltrusDisc View Post
    Why assume that a lot of fans is a lot of sound? It's a Mountain Mods case with what looks like a fan controller. I'd consider that probably quite silent...
    Adding a lot of fans will make noise sooner or later even if they are quiet on their own.
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  11. #10471
    The Insane DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by n0cturnal View Post
    Adding a lot of fans will make noise sooner or later even if they are quiet on their own.
    More fans than are in that case. 10 fans all set low or even medium that are made to be as silent as possible will still be very silent.

    Besides, space heater? lol he might as well turn the fans to max.
    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
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  12. #10472
    Quote Originally Posted by DeltrusDisc View Post
    More fans than are in that case. 10 fans all set low or even medium that are made to be as silent as possible will still be very silent.

    Besides, space heater? lol he might as well turn the fans to max.
    It really depends on how loud the fans are and how many you add. Having 2 fans of lets say 19dB would make 22dB of sounds, having 4 19dB fans would increase it to 25dB and so on.
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  13. #10473
    Dreadlord Stravs's Avatar
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    Why assume that I assumed that it was noisy ? Yea Noct that's what I was getting at
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  14. #10474
    The Insane DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    Take for instance my computer.
    I have 2x200mm fans, 1x230mm, 1x140mm, and 1x120mm.

    Most if not all are running at 40% of not even 12v. It's obnoxiously silent... for a non-sound-proofed case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
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  15. #10475
    Dreadlord Stravs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltrusDisc View Post
    Take for instance my computer.
    I have 2x200mm fans, 1x230mm, 1x140mm, and 1x120mm.

    Most if not all are running at 40% of not even 12v. It's obnoxiously silent... for a non-sound-proofed case.
    That's your definition of silent though, I have 3 fans running atm the 2 on the nh-d14 (low noise adapters) and 1 gfx card fan set at 30% and I consider mine noisy believe it or not And I doubt I could go any quieter without sound proofing or going fully passive. Some people are really anal about noise and i'm one of them.
    Last edited by Stravs; 2013-03-01 at 06:45 PM.
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  16. #10476
    Elemental Lord Drunkenvalley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evn View Post
    Etc.
    Firstly, never ever reply to something after your post by editing an older post. I only barely noticed you'd said something in the first place.

    Secondly, I don't think I've ever heard of anyone sane actually investing in 120Hz monitors for what you seem to be implying is a big misconception being spewed around the place. The first and foremost argument has been, from what I've seen, that the higher refresh rate creates a smoother visual experience when combined with the hardware to push the necessary FPS.

    Your involvement of IPS panels in this is very moot, as currently one still has to choose between 120Hz or IPS quality.

  17. #10477
    Lol, oh you guys...the space heater is just to keep the chill off of my feet since the wife enjoys sub-arctic temps in the house. In total, there are 9 120mm and 4 80mm fans. I am being completely honest about the silence of the system =)

  18. #10478
    The Insane DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaynith View Post
    Lol, oh you guys...the space heater is just to keep the chill off of my feet since the wife enjoys sub-arctic temps in the house. In total, there are 9 120mm and 4 80mm fans. I am being completely honest about the silence of the system =)
    People aren't considering the noise-level of space heaters. /sigh

    @stravs: My computer is a very very calm hum that is barely noticeable, partially because:

    A) Basement noises: 15-20 feet away is a furnace, air conditioner, dehumidifier, water heater, and sump pump.
    B) Speakers/headphones are definitely louder than some fans on 40% of 3v or 5v. (Can't remember which voltage level the NZXT Sentry 2 puts them on.) My headphones are Shure SRH440s, closed-back headphones, so just putting them on alone drops noise levels that my ears can hear by a good 70% or so. The speakers are Samson MediaONE 3a studio monitors, aka, strong and focused and can easily outmatch the 4 speaker stereo system around my drumset that I got years back, at a bit above half the compared volume.
    C) Even if we took the above noises out, my computer is still shockingly quiet. It helps having BIG fans. Is it absolutely silent? No, I'll never say that. However I bought all quiet fans for my case and then turned them down so they wouldn't be too loud. Any noise that does exist, of course gets destroyed by A & B.

    Get it now?
    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
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  19. #10479
    TOTALLY NOT
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltrusDisc View Post
    Take for instance my computer.
    I have 2x200mm fans, 1x230mm, 1x140mm, and 1x120mm.

    Most if not all are running at 40% of not even 12v. It's obnoxiously silent... for a non-sound-proofed case.
    You think that, but that's because you haven't heard it in comparison. :P

  20. #10480
    Quote Originally Posted by DeltrusDisc View Post
    People aren't considering the noise-level of space heaters. /sigh

    @stravs: My computer is a very very calm hum that is barely noticeable, partially because:

    A) Basement noises: 15-20 feet away is a furnace, air conditioner, dehumidifier, water heater, and sump pump.
    B) Speakers/headphones are definitely louder than some fans on 40% of 3v or 5v. (Can't remember which voltage level the NZXT Sentry 2 puts them on.) My headphones are Shure SRH440s, closed-back headphones, so just putting them on alone drops noise levels that my ears can hear by a good 70% or so. The speakers are Samson MediaONE 3a studio monitors, aka, strong and focused and can easily outmatch the 4 speaker stereo system around my drumset that I got years back, at a bit above half the compared volume.
    C) Even if we took the above noises out, my computer is still shockingly quiet. It helps having BIG fans. Is it absolutely silent? No, I'll never say that. However I bought all quiet fans for my case and then turned them down so they wouldn't be too loud. Any noise that does exist, of course gets destroyed by A & B.

    Get it now?
    I wasnt saying that the space heater added to the sound. As a matter of fact, I was using it as a comparison of the sound relative to my system. /sigh

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