1. #13541
    The Lightbringer Wries's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenvalley View Post
    I'd honestly argue that the 780 ti at this point is best described as three generations after. The 600 series came and went, the Titan rolled around, before the 700-series started with 780 and started filling in the gaps below.

    Honestly, trying to count generations is getting convoluted. Do we consider the Titan series to be part of the 700?
    Titan is I think GTX 699 somewhere on the PCB. But in the driver selection page on geforce.com, it was moved to the 700-series as soon as the 700-series sprouted :3

  2. #13542
    Field Marshal Zangu's Avatar
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    Decided to Water Cool my system

    After an RMAed Motherboard I still had some credits left at the Manufacturers Store so I decided to buy another GPU...
    Fear of getting cooked alive during summer I decided to go water cooled once more after a decade of absence to it.

    Front shot:

    Changed my beloved Lian Li TYR PC-X2000B into a Corsair 900D more suitable for water cooling.
    The Front Bezel removed shows the 1st 240mm Radiator equipped with two 120mm Fans.

    Second Shot:

    With Corsair gluing the Heat Spreaders to the RAM I wouldn't have been able to remove them in order to water cool the RAM thus I didn't bother.
    So for now it's just the CPU, VR, MOSFET, PCH & 2 GPUs that are being water cooled - Still plenty.

    On the top is the 1st 480mm Radiator equipped with four 120mm Fans.
    Water Blocks, Radiators and Tubing is all EKWB.
    Pump/Res Combo and Fan Controller is Aquacomputer.

    Third Shot:

    Lots of custom cable sleeving was done here - Used pretty much an entire 100m spool for this build.
    Not very happy with the not decoupled Pump/Res combo but nothing I could have done.
    Will change to a different Pump/Res combo later on that mounts to the Motherboard Tray even freeing up another HDD Cage.

    Bottom area shows the 2nd 480 Radiator equipped with four 120mm Fans and slightly offset behind it the 2nd 240 Radiator with the last two 120mm Fans.

    Last Shot:

    Place where most of the sleeving went into.
    So not going to do that again in quite a while.

    Old Post showing System pre Water Cooled.
    16665600 Pixels

  3. #13543
    Scarab Lord Kostattoo's Avatar
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    Very nice and clean job you've done there Zangu, well done!
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  4. #13544
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    Got my speakers now to find my phone XD
    “Snow can only live in the winter. When it nears a fire, it dies. That is its life. It may yearn for summer, but… it can only desire it. In my hand, the snow becomes water, because this is not its world….”
    “The boundless Heavens and Earth are the final resting place of all living things. Life is like a journey, filled with various scenery, various paths.

  5. #13545
    Pit Lord Ghâzh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zangu View Post
    Fear of getting cooked alive during summer I decided to go water cooled once more after a decade of absence to it.
    The build is looking good although that's a common misconception about water cooling. You are actually getting equally cooked with either air or water cooling. Water will only help to keep the few selected spots (e.g., cpu die, gpu die or mosfet) cool whilst the hot air exhausted to your room is still as hot as if you were on air. The only thing that matters is the power consumption.

  6. #13546
    Field Marshal Zangu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghâzh View Post
    The build is looking good although that's a common misconception about water cooling. You are actually getting equally cooked with either air or water cooling. Water will only help to keep the few selected spots (e.g., cpu die, gpu die or mosfet) cool whilst the hot air exhausted to your room is still as hot as if you were on air. The only thing that matters is the power consumption.
    Can't go with or against that argument as it's not my field of expertise but It sure does look ( Temp Readings ) and feel ( Hand near Exhaust Ports/Radiators ) a loot cooler and even if it's not me benefiting from this the components sure do by having their temperatures reduced by at least a third and up to half from stock values.

    At least noise has gone down by a considerable amount especially during heavy load which was another reason.
    Too bad it's not helping THAT much with the noisy fan on my floor now roaring like crazy to cool me xD
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  7. #13547
    I am Murloc! Cyanotical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zangu View Post
    Can't go with or against that argument as it's not my field of expertise but It sure does look ( Temp Readings ) and feel ( Hand near Exhaust Ports/Radiators ) a loot cooler and even if it's not me benefiting from this the components sure do by having their temperatures reduced by at least a third and up to half from stock values.

    At least noise has gone down by a considerable amount especially during heavy load which was another reason.
    Too bad it's not helping THAT much with the noisy fan on my floor now roaring like crazy to cool me xD
    it's actually basic physics, energy only changes forms, so assuming your CPU is outputting say 50 BTU (random number) then it will output 50 BTU regardless of cooling solution, both water and air have to remove the that heat, and they both do it by dissipating it into the air

    water produces lower temps because with a larger surface area in a radiator it is more efficient at transferring heat into the air, the result is that watercooling will in fact make your room warmer than an air heatsink because its more efficient at transferring heat to the air, so over time, more heat gets transferred into the air, and your CPU temp drops

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  8. #13548
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyanotical View Post
    water produces lower temps because with a larger surface area in a radiator it is more efficient at transferring heat into the air, the result is that watercooling will in fact make your room warmer than an air heatsink because its more efficient at transferring heat to the air, so over time, more heat gets transferred into the air, and your CPU temp drops
    What? no. The temp of your system will rise until it reaches an equilibrium at which point it will always be dissipating the same Watts regardless of what you strap to it. Just because it gets hotter does not mean it is dissipating less heat, it just means it is less effective at doing so. The bigger the temp difference, the quicker the heat transfer, hence you will always reach an equilibrium not heat something up until it catches fire. You correctly stated that then contradicted yourself?

    As to whether it "feels" hotter or colder, probably just comes down to air speed and area of dissipation rather than actual watts being dissipated. My 35w laptop feels like a toaster. Small fan, small exhaust port. All makes sense, Megahalems feels like ambient air no matter the conditions and it is on top of 130w.

  9. #13549
    I am Murloc! Cyanotical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afrospinach View Post
    What? no. The temp of your system will rise until it reaches an equilibrium at which point it will always be dissipating the same Watts regardless of what you strap to it. Just because it gets hotter does not mean it is dissipating less heat, it just means it is less effective at doing so. The bigger the temp difference, the quicker the heat transfer, hence you will always reach an equilibrium not heat something up until it catches fire. You correctly stated that then contradicted yourself?

    As to whether it "feels" hotter or colder, probably just comes down to air speed and area of dissipation rather than actual watts being dissipated. My 35w laptop feels like a toaster. Small fan, small exhaust port. All makes sense, Megahalems feels like ambient air no matter the conditions and it is on top of 130w.
    you can't get cooler than ambient, but the reason water traditionally is better at cooling is because a radiator has more surface area to transfer heat to the air, this means that there is less heat in the system, and more heat in the air, resulting in lower CPU temps and higher ambient temps (in a closed system), keep a window open or something and you'll be fine, this is the same concept btw that makes passive oil cooling crap

    essentially, water puts more heat into the ambient air faster, that energy is now sitting in the air, making your room warmer (and raising the delta)

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  10. #13550
    Pit Lord Ghâzh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyanotical View Post
    you can't get cooler than ambient, but the reason water traditionally is better at cooling is because a radiator has more surface area to transfer heat to the air, this means that there is less heat in the system, and more heat in the air, resulting in lower CPU temps and higher ambient temps (in a closed system), keep a window open or something and you'll be fine, this is the same concept btw that makes passive oil cooling crap

    essentially, water puts more heat into the ambient air faster, that energy is now sitting in the air, making your room warmer (and raising the delta)
    If by closed system you mean the pc case would be sealed so good that zero heath gets out apart from the exhaust. In which case your hypothesis would be correct. That's not true though the heat is getting out one way or another unless we are talking about purely theoretical situations.

  11. #13551
    I am Murloc! Cyanotical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghâzh View Post
    If by closed system you mean the pc case would be sealed so good that zero heath gets out apart from the exhaust. In which case your hypothesis would be correct. That's not true though the heat is getting out one way or another unless we are talking about purely theoretical situations.
    assuming your computer is in a room with no airflow, watercooling will heat it up faster (first hand experience, not theory), but most people (as in not my brother) just open a window or door, or have AC, or some other means to remove the heat

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  12. #13552
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyanotical View Post
    you can't get cooler than ambient, but the reason water traditionally is better at cooling is because a radiator has more surface area to transfer heat to the air, this means that there is less heat in the system, and more heat in the air, resulting in lower CPU temps and higher ambient temps (in a closed system), keep a window open or something and you'll be fine, this is the same concept btw that makes passive oil cooling crap

    essentially, water puts more heat into the ambient air faster, that energy is now sitting in the air, making your room warmer (and raising the delta)
    That right there is a short term thing though. If you were to do an experiment by running WC vs say a stock cooler, and you let them run a particular test of set length they will both produce the same result for ambient air. The stock cooler will just have a lag because it has greater thermal capacitance, it will have to reach a higher temp before it can dissipate the required wattage at which point they will be identical. Once the temp is stable watts in = watts out. Just as the water cooler will never get so hot, the stock cooler will have to cool down after a burn so you are all square in the long run.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyanotical View Post
    assuming your computer is in a room with no airflow, watercooling will heat it up faster (first hand experience, not theory), but most people (as in not my brother) just open a window or door, or have AC, or some other means to remove the heat
    Are you sure you are not just overclocking the bejeebus out of said system because you have WC?
    Last edited by Afrospinach; 2014-06-10 at 05:49 PM.

  13. #13553
    Pit Lord Ghâzh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyanotical View Post
    assuming your computer is in a room with no airflow, watercooling will heat it up faster (first hand experience, not theory), but most people (as in not my brother) just open a window or door, or have AC, or some other means to remove the heat
    Faster but not warmer which is what you said initially. Given enough time both systems will be equally warm because the heat flow between the two must be constant in order to the energy source not to start warming up infinitely. Although how much faster is another question which I have no idea about but I would imagine it becoming irrelevant pretty fast after you had had the PC on for even slightly longer periods of time.

  14. #13554
    I am Murloc! Cyanotical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghâzh View Post
    Faster but not warmer which is what you said initially. Given enough time both systems will be equally warm because the heat flow between the two must be constant in order to the energy source not to start warming up infinitely. Although how much faster is another question which I have no idea about but I would imagine it becoming irrelevant pretty fast after you had had the PC on for even slightly longer periods of time.
    im not really looking at heat potential, just the fact that when you use watercooling, the reason your CPU has a lower temp is that more heat is being drawn away, and that has to go into the ambient air, so more energy in the air means warmer ambient air temp overall, we're splitting hairs though, i just wanted to point out that your room can actually get warmer with watercooling

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  15. #13555
    My setup is:
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  16. #13556
    Pit Lord Ghâzh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyanotical View Post
    im not really looking at heat potential, just the fact that when you use watercooling, the reason your CPU has a lower temp is that more heat is being drawn away, and that has to go into the ambient air, so more energy in the air means warmer ambient air temp overall, we're splitting hairs though, i just wanted to point out that your room can actually get warmer with watercooling
    No we aren't really. There's a fundamental flaw in what you're saying. There won't be more energy in the air if the power consumption of both air and water cooled systems are equal. Exactly the same amount of heat has to be exhausted from the system in both examples, resulting in the same room temperatures. Water cooled system will just reach the peak temperature faster.

  17. #13557
    The Insane DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghâzh View Post
    No we aren't really. There's a fundamental flaw in what you're saying. There won't be more energy in the air if the power consumption of both air and water cooled systems are equal. Exactly the same amount of heat has to be exhausted from the system in both examples, resulting in the same room temperatures. Water cooled system will just reach the peak temperature faster.
    A water cooled system is going to draw more electricity, if perhaps a minute amount, than an air cooled system, to be fair.
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  18. #13558
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghâzh View Post
    No we aren't really. There's a fundamental flaw in what you're saying. There won't be more energy in the air if the power consumption of both air and water cooled systems are equal. Exactly the same amount of heat has to be exhausted from the system in both examples, resulting in the same room temperatures. Water cooled system will just reach the peak temperature faster.
    It's sort of a queue.

    Minute 1 : 49° (water)
    Minute 1: 45° (air)
    Minute 2: 50° (water)
    Minute 2: 46° (air)

    Etc etc. In the end you shut the system off, whats heat thats left in the heatsinks/chips are going to go out at some point where as with watercooling most of it is already out.
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  19. #13559
    I am Murloc! Cyanotical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghâzh View Post
    No we aren't really. There's a fundamental flaw in what you're saying. There won't be more energy in the air if the power consumption of both air and water cooled systems are equal. Exactly the same amount of heat has to be exhausted from the system in both examples, resulting in the same room temperatures. Water cooled system will just reach the peak temperature faster.
    but that is assuming that both water and air are drawing the same amount of heat from the CPU, they don't always, a large dual tower heatsink can keep up with water, but take a stock cooler, the reason your CPU runs hotter is because the heatsink is not drawing as much heat away from the cpu and transferring it to air (i honestly didn't think i would have to explain this)

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  20. #13560
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyanotical View Post
    but that is assuming that both water and air are drawing the same amount of heat from the CPU, they don't always, a large dual tower heatsink can keep up with water, but take a stock cooler, the reason your CPU runs hotter is because the heatsink is not drawing as much heat away from the cpu and transferring it to air (i honestly didn't think i would have to explain this)
    This will be my absolute last post on this I promise as it is OT

    If you boil a cup of water and the let it cool, taking the temp every minute, it will lose more heat in the first min than any other and subsequently less every minute after. This is because the great the temp difference between two materials the greater the energy transfer.

    In this way you can see why your much more effective cooler with a larger surface area that is more effective at dispersing heat will have a lower peak temperature than a stock cooler. It can dissipate more watts at a given temperature. If it cannot radiate enough watts it is heating up hence greater peak temps for stock, but eventually it will be dumping all the heat being put in. The only thing that can affect your wattage is what you are actually doing with your CPU. What you are suggesting is that somehow heat is getting lost and destroyed which is just impossible. The heat must be either radiated into your room or stored in the system, but as long as you are still using your cpu and the temperature is stable it *must* be radiating every watt being produced no matter what cooling solution you are using. It is fundamental conservation of energy.

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