1. #10581
    Quote Originally Posted by Cerus View Post
    Fans are cheap and you really cannot have too many.
    Oh, yes you can. As I said in my previous post, there are diminishing returns where fans are concerned. Eventually you keep building the negatives with little to none of the positives. I originally had more fans, both before and after I upgraded, and it didn't add much but noise. While I will concede that it probably would decrease my CPU temperature by a bit if I did all the things you mentioned, I don't have much motivation to do so considering it will be money and noise to reduce temperatures that are already well-safe.

  2. #10582
    Quote Originally Posted by Crusader Cronus View Post
    Oh, yes you can. As I said in my previous post, there are diminishing returns where fans are concerned. Eventually you keep building the negatives with little to none of the positives. I originally had more fans, both before and after I upgraded, and it didn't add much but noise. While I will concede that it probably would decrease my CPU temperature by a bit if I did all the things you mentioned, I don't have much motivation to do so considering it will be money and noise to reduce temperatures that are already well-safe.
    That depends on your ambient temps and if you OC and by how much. Granted an entire case of fans is overkill but at bare minimum you need one or two intakes at the front bottom, one exhaust at the rear towards the top - preferably inline with your CPU heatsink/fan so that it is working with it - and an exhaust fan at the top to top it off if your case supports it. In your case - as I've mentioned already - I would add an exhaust fan at the back and setup your HS so that it is blowing across the fins and into the rear exhaust fan. Rest of the setup is fine and with that addition you'll have good, proper airflow pattern. Since you are OCing you really don't want to be skimping on fans.

    Out of curiosity - what are your idle and full load temps?
    Last edited by Cerus; 2013-03-06 at 01:02 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lansworthy
    Deathwing will come and go RAWR RAWR IM A DWAGON
    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyCasual View Post
    There's no point in saying this, even if you slap them upside down and inside out with the truth, the tin foil hat brigade will continue to believe the opposite.

  3. #10583
    Quote Originally Posted by Cerus View Post
    You posted this while I was responding. If I understand you correctly you have the fan on your CPU heatsink so that it is blowing towards the back of your case? You do realize that you essentially have zero airflow over the fins right? Than fan needs to be blowing fresh air across the heatsink fins in order to properly dissipate heat. You can use a push pull setup to increase cooling by having one fan blowing across the fins towards the rear of the case with another fan on the opposite side blowing in the same direction as the first.

    IE: Rear <----||||----<--- Front

    Probably why you saw little difference in temperatures. Orientate the HS/Fan properly with a rear exhaust fan and you should see a big difference.
    You misunderstand me, because I mistyped and then edited it once I caught my mistake. It's pushing through, and retrieving a good deal of air through the back even without a fan while doing so. If air directly from the outside of the case (with or without a fan to aid it), being right next to the fan pulling through can't decrease temperatures then neither will reorientation, especially if that reorientation leads to fighting between the top exhaust for hot air from the rest of the components. A push-pull configuration would be equally pointless, especially on a heatsink that's been proven to benefit very little from such a thing. I won't be wasting my time for a fraction of a degree, or even five, when it's perfectly within limit as is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerus View Post
    Out of curiosity - what are your idle and full load temps?
    I get up to the low 70s with Prime95 running large FFTs, and the low 80s with that and Furmark burn-in running alongside it. Do keep in mind this is at 4.5GHz with 1.28v.

  4. #10584
    TOTALLY NOT
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    Please read the rules and stop quoting pictures without breaking the image tags.

    As for the topic at hand, proper airflow != more fans. I'm running 4 case fans in my Define (R3), two front 800rpm intakes at 5v and 7v respectively, a bottom 1450rpm one to feed the GPU at 5v and an exhaust at the back, also 1450 rpm, but also at 5v.
    I could probably make do with running only two of those; one front intake and one bottom, 800rpm at 5v both. I'd prefer not to, since the additional ones I have make no noise.

  5. #10585
    Quote Originally Posted by Crusader Cronus View Post
    You misunderstand me, because I mistyped and then edited it once I caught my mistake. It's pushing through, and retrieving a good deal of air through the back even without a fan while doing so. If air directly from the outside of the case (with or without a fan to aid it), being right next to the fan pulling through can't decrease temperatures then neither will reorientation, especially if that reorientation leads to fighting between the top exhaust for hot air from the rest of the components. A push-pull configuration would be equally pointless, especially on a heatsink that's been proven to benefit very little from such a thing. I won't be wasting my time for a fraction of a degree, or even five, when it's perfectly within limit as is.



    I get up to the low 70s with Prime95 running large FFTs, and the low 80s with that and Furmark burn-in running alongside it. Do keep in mind this is at 4.5GHz with 1.28v.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusader Cronus View Post
    You misunderstand me, because I mistyped and then edited it once I caught my mistake. It's pushing through, and retrieving a good deal of air through the back even without a fan while doing so. If air directly from the outside of the case (with or without a fan to aid it), being right next to the fan pulling through can't decrease temperatures then neither will reorientation, especially if that reorientation leads to fighting between the top exhaust for hot air from the rest of the components. A push-pull configuration would be equally pointless, especially on a heatsink that's been proven to benefit very little from such a thing. I won't be wasting my time for a fraction of a degree, or even five, when it's perfectly within limit as is.



    I get up to the low 70s with Prime95 running large FFTs, and the low 80s with that and Furmark burn-in running alongside it. Do keep in mind this is at 4.5GHz with 1.28v.
    Ah - well that's definitely better than having it pulling air through it for sure. The problem I still see is that you have an uneven and turbulent airflow pattern created by your heatsink blowing hot air into the path of the incoming cool air creating a warmer temp gradient for your HDDs, MB, CPU etc. Since that the CPU is the most crucial part of a system (cooling wise) and generates the most heat you want that air to get out of the case as quickly as possible. That's why modern cases have an exhaust fan located right inline with the CPU and generally have on preinstalled. Having the HS blowing towards the back into an exhaust fan with an exhaust fan on top won't cause any "fighting" as you put it. The top exhaust will help create a good bottom to top airflow pattern and the HS fan and rear exhaust will take care of the CPUs cooling needs.

    That's pretty much the standard gaming case design these days so I wouldn't worry about any cooling fan conflicts. Every degree counts - even if it's just one. It's that much longer your equipment will last. Your temps are in range but that's a fairly mild OC for 70s and 80s. I'd prefer mid 60s or less in my own systems but I'm a cooling freak. I'm not really sure why since any HW failure means I get to do some building. I thought about breaking things on purpose but I figured my wife would catch on too quick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lansworthy
    Deathwing will come and go RAWR RAWR IM A DWAGON
    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyCasual View Post
    There's no point in saying this, even if you slap them upside down and inside out with the truth, the tin foil hat brigade will continue to believe the opposite.

  6. #10586
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    While the "hot air" concept is true, it's always overstated.
    I've found, with the sample size being my computers throughout time, that windchill matters, internal air temperature has a slight effect. Delta temperature around the case is more important in my experience.

  7. #10587
    Quote Originally Posted by tetrisGOAT View Post
    Please read the rules and stop quoting pictures without breaking the image tags.

    As for the topic at hand, proper airflow != more fans. I'm running 4 case fans in my Define (R3), two front 800rpm intakes at 5v and 7v respectively, a bottom 1450rpm one to feed the GPU at 5v and an exhaust at the back, also 1450 rpm, but also at 5v.
    I could probably make do with running only two of those; one front intake and one bottom, 800rpm at 5v both. I'd prefer not to, since the additional ones I have make no noise.
    Went and read the rules again. No mention of breaking image tags in quotes. I'm either blind or it must be a new hidden rule. A PM asking me to tweak my post would have been sufficient instead of hacking it up yourself without even leaving any of the post I was responding to intact. /sigh
    Quote Originally Posted by Lansworthy
    Deathwing will come and go RAWR RAWR IM A DWAGON
    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyCasual View Post
    There's no point in saying this, even if you slap them upside down and inside out with the truth, the tin foil hat brigade will continue to believe the opposite.

  8. #10588
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firatha View Post
    PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING THREAD-SPECIFIC RULES BEFORE POSTING:

    • Do NOT post images that exceed 800 pixels in width; use thumbnails instead, with a link to the original picture. Imgur.com is a great place to upload to, as they give you thumbnails on all images.
    • Do NOT quote entire posts without breaking the image links; if you plan to quote, please remove the [IMG]-tags.

    Updates are in bold
    @Cerus, It's right there in bold, hard to miss.
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  9. #10589
    Dreadlord Msi's Avatar
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    Just bought the MSI Mpower z77
    Anything I should know before installing the motherboard?
    Our greatest influences will always define us.

  10. #10590
    Quote Originally Posted by tetrisGOAT View Post
    While the "hot air" concept is true, it's always overstated.
    I've found, with the sample size being my computers throughout time, that windchill matters, internal air temperature has a slight effect. Delta temperature around the case is more important in my experience.
    Hot zones, hot air blowing against your intake air and hot air dumped into the case by the gpu or intake air obstructed by bad cable management creating "vacuums" is as crucial to temps as the delta temperature. It matters in the sense of ambient over delta. It is true though a Delta temperature of 20+45=65 and a Delta temperature of 35+45=80, so it matters more in a way.

    What is equally important to remember is that you can't do so much about your delta temperature, but you can optimize your ambient temperature. Having hot air warming up your intake air effectively takes your overall Ambient over Delta temperature up. I agree, the importance of airflow is overstated, it is also the only variable you can control to a certain extent.

  11. #10591
    Fluffy Kitten Marest's Avatar
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    Ordered this Bluetooth keyboard off Ebay for my Nexus 7. I've used a slim USB keyboard with an OTG cable in the past, along with a USB hub, mouse and a foldable stand. Now I can cut it down to just this, which makes it a lot easier to grab with me when I travel about (and leaves space in my bag for other goodies).

    Typing on it was a bit wonky at first, but I got used to the slim design faster than I expected (took about an hour). It's of course nothing compared to a full-sized keyboard, but I don't really plan on writing long essays with it anyway. It's for typing down short notes, appointments and the occasional forum post. It's a giant plus that it doubles as a case (screen protector) and stand.

    It cost me just $20 (128 SEK), shipping included, and was delivered in just under 4 days (from China).


    Front. Notice the rather odd layout with TAB replacing § and Q being almost 150% its original size. The Home and Back buttons (in place of the Windows-key) work as you'd expect. Top right you see on/off switch, two LED indicators (power and connection) as well as a connect button.


    Back. Not the same finish as found on the back of the Nexus 7 but pretty close. It feels cheaper and is more prone to fingerprints. On the bottom-left is a connector for charging (micro-USB).


    Thickness. Like Linus, a side-by-side comparison with an iPhone 4. It makes the device about 60-70% thicker (haven't measured) but barely adds any noticeable weight. It snaps on as you'd expect - almost a perfect fit.


    Comparison. Keyboard to the left, Nexus 7 on the right (obviously). The keyboard is slimmer, albeit not by much. The hinges fold over the Nexus when you snap them together.


    As per the unofficial MMO-Champion Computer-forum tradition.

  12. #10592
    That is really sexy. I had a Nexus7 and my wife thought it looked cool. Now I'm stuck with her old iPad mini. Maybe I'll try to steal it back!

  13. #10593
    I am Murloc! Cyanotical's Avatar
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    I have a similar device for my ipad, it's fairly nice, but i run into the issue of it's a bit bulky and interferes with the speed of opening a tablet

    how does that work out on the 7" size?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marest View Post
    As per the unofficial MMO-Champion Computer-forum tradition.
    rofl

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  14. #10594
    Fluffy Kitten Marest's Avatar
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    @Cyan
    It's very situational. When I'm at work or when I'm at home I rarely use the keyboard because it isn't necessary. I use my tablet to browse; check news, forums, emails, etc. Whenever I feel I need to actually type something (write a post, answer an email, etc) a computer is never far away. While on a train or a plane it's more convenient to have the keyboard though as you can at least do some work with it - almost like a small notebook. As such I will rarely have the keyboard attached when I'm at home.

  15. #10595
    The Insane DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    omg Marest.

    Come now, more current video psshhhhhh! That video is months old! XD The miss is in the background and such. 8/10 for effort though!
    i7-5820K | ASUS X99- Deluxe | Crucial 2x8GB DDR4 2133MHz | eVGA GTX 760 SC | Crucial MX100 512GB | Crucial M500 240GB | Crucial m4 128GB | Western Digital Blue 1TB | Western Digital Black 1TB | SeaSonic X660 Gold
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  16. #10596


    It looks messier than it actually is =/

  17. #10597
    Pit Lord Wries's Avatar
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    Why not the entire machine park? I'm sure I've posted most of it at some point but small things change and stuff. Also, just a teeny weeny bit better camera than before but was still dark as hell when I snapped most photos..

    HTPC/SteamBP/Guest PC
    TV is a Samsung something something 46" LED-backlit edge-lit LCD-TV
    Silverstone Milo ML03
    Intel Core i5-3450S 4c4t @ 3.5GHz
    ASUS P8Z77-M PRO
    AMD Radeon HD 7750 1GB GDDR5 Low Profile
    8GB 1600MHz DDR3 RAM
    128GB SSD


    The thing in the darkness in the middle there, right below the TV. THERE IT IS! THE HTPC!

    TV-PVR, game-console, all in one. Forgot to take any close-up picture, might add later.
    Usually accesses data from the server PC. Not much storage built-in anymore. Runs XBMC on boot.

    WS/Gamestation
    2x LG 23" 1920x1080 LED edge-lit IPS Monitors
    Corsair Obsidian 650D
    Intel Core i7-2600K 4c8t @ 4.5GHz
    ASUS P8Z68 Deluxe
    outdated.
    Nvidia Geforce GTX Titan 6GB GDDR5
    16GB 1600MHz DDR3 RAM
    120GB SSD
    3x 1TB WD Caviar Black in RAID0
    2x 2TB WD Caviar Green




    My tiny oasis of joy Recent upgrade was the GPU, obviously. Gonna try to stay away from any upgrades, other than cheap bling :P

    Laptop
    Macbook Air 2012
    Intel Core i5-3427U 2c4t
    Intel HD 4000
    8GB 1600MHZ DDR3L RAM
    128GB SSD
    64GB Nifty Minidrive

    Forgot to snap pics at home so here are some others.


    I play some games through bootcamp mostly. Works with what I play but with low-medium settings of course
    Edit: obviously its main purpose is not gaming. Work-on-the-go machine mainly.


    Home Server
    BitPhoenix Prodigy
    Intel Core i5-3450 4c4t @ 3.3GHz
    ASUS P8H77-I Mini ITX
    Intel HD 2500
    8GB 1600MHz DDR3 RAM
    8TB HDDs



    Very not so glorious pic, it's behind the dishwasher in a kitchen cabinet

    It's just a home server for various projects. Mainly air video and ftp traffic I suppose.
    Hard drives were due for replacement but since I got a Titan, my tech budget for this year is used up and I can't with good conscience spend any more. They'll simply have to hold.
    Last edited by Wries; 2013-06-20 at 01:18 PM. Reason: Wrote ddr and not gddr
    Obsidian 350D | Intel Core i7 2700K @ 4.8GHz | ASUS Maximus V Gene Z77 | 32GB RAM | Nvidia Geforce GTX Titan 6GB | 500GB SSD | LG 34" 21:9 34UM95-P

  18. #10598
    Quote Originally Posted by Wries View Post
    etc.
    Loving that setup Wries, how long did it take you to put all of that together? Wish I could save up the money to afford a setup like that , most of my money goes on rent/student related stuff so I'll probably have to wait a while til I get anything similar. Very jealous!
    CPU: i5 3570k @ 4.3GHz | GPU: MSI GTX 970 Gaming 4G | RAM: Corsair Vengeance LP 1600 MHz | Case: NZXT H440 | Motherboard: Asus P8Z77-V LX | CPU Cooler: CM Hyper 212 Evo | SSD: Samsung 840 120GB | HDD: Western Digital Caviar Green 1TB PSU: CM GX 650W Bronze Soundcard: Asus Xonar Essence STX

    Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Zazu/advanced

  19. #10599
    The Patient at05gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appled View Post
    Loving that setup Wries, how long did it take you to put all of that together? Wish I could save up the money to afford a setup like that , most of my money goes on rent/student related stuff so I'll probably have to wait a while til I get anything similar. Very jealous!
    You could whore yourself out to 1,000 fat chicks for 50 bucks each. :P kidding

    In all honesty just save what you can when you can and you'll be surprised what you can afford. I never thought I could afford anything on what I make now, but I've got a laptop for college, a fairly powerful gaming computer, a file server, and a car now ('05 VW GTI 1.8T, mmmm turbo noises). Just have to cut back what you think you can live without and SAVE EVERY PENNY. Make your own meals every day, don't eat out, etc.

    Sorry mods, I know I know, save it for the chat thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by noteworthynerd View Post
    But hey, we're just strangers on the Internet with decades of combined IT and computer building experience, what do we know?

  20. #10600
    Quote Originally Posted by at05gt View Post
    You could whore yourself out to 1,000 fat chicks for 50 bucks each. :P kidding

    In all honesty just save what you can when you can and you'll be surprised what you can afford. I never thought I could afford anything on what I make now, but I've got a laptop for college, a fairly powerful gaming computer, a file server, and a car now ('05 VW GTI 1.8T, mmmm turbo noises). Just have to cut back what you think you can live without and SAVE EVERY PENNY. Make your own meals every day, don't eat out, etc.

    Sorry mods, I know I know, save it for the chat thread.
    Haha yeah that is true, although my current rig is perfectly fine tbh and I run every game that I actually play on ultra. Realistically I don't really need a better pc and I enjoy spending money on other things too

    But yeah, going a bit off topic!
    CPU: i5 3570k @ 4.3GHz | GPU: MSI GTX 970 Gaming 4G | RAM: Corsair Vengeance LP 1600 MHz | Case: NZXT H440 | Motherboard: Asus P8Z77-V LX | CPU Cooler: CM Hyper 212 Evo | SSD: Samsung 840 120GB | HDD: Western Digital Caviar Green 1TB PSU: CM GX 650W Bronze Soundcard: Asus Xonar Essence STX

    Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Zazu/advanced

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