The High End Value Computer

[Deleted]

I appreciate good advice greatly. If you see my super value computer thread, many of the items on the list are based on feedback -- GOOD feedback. All ive seen in this thread is claiming there are better video cards without any proof, tests, benchmarks, or anything whatsoever.

As to your claim of the 5770 hitting 60 fps on max settings, it doesnt in the bencharms i linked earlier.
---------- Post added 2010-11-30 at 06:41 PM ----------



check the link

I hope you do realise those benchmarks are probably full of bullshit. They don't even say where they tested the GPUs. And come on, benchmarks for WoW? :') Also posting a benchmark of a 2560x1600 resolution is just playing dumb when this is supposed to be a "value" computer.

[Moobious]

So instead of arguing about the GPU I will point out something else I noticed about the build.

The WB black drives are a pretty poor value atm. They are only marginally faster than the samsung f3 drives but cost around 50% more ($60 for a 500gb drive vs $40).

---------- Post added 2010-12-01 at 02:36 PM ----------

To add to the video card debate-

I'm not going to argue the relative value of cards. My opinion on that is to just decide on how much you are willing to spend and pick the best performing card in that price range.

You really don't need more that a 5770 to run wow on ultra. There is a thread around here somewhere where cil outlines his build (i5 750 over clocked and a 5770). He runs 30+ fps (25m raid setting) on ultra with shadows.

[Kripparrian]

I hope you do realise those benchmarks are probably full of bullshit. They don't even say where they tested the GPUs. And come on, benchmarks for WoW? :') Also posting a benchmark of a 2560x1600 resolution is just playing dumb when this is supposed to be a "value" computer.

youve made many claims so far in the thread. back 1 up with any sort of tests, please.

So instead of arguing about the GPU I will point out something else I noticed about the build.

The WB black drives are a pretty poor value atm. They are only marginally faster than the samsung f3 drives but cost around 50% more ($60 for a 500gb drive vs $40).

---------- Post added 2010-12-01 at 02:36 PM ----------

To add to the video card debate-

I'm not going to argue the relative value of cards. My opinion on that is to just decide on how much you are willing to spend and pick the best performing card in that price range.

You really don't need more that a 5770 to run wow on ultra. There is a thread around here somewhere where cil outlines his build (i5 750 over clocked and a 5770). He runs 30+ fps (25m raid setting) on ultra with shadows.

Ill make the change

[Deleted]

youve made many claims so far in the thread. back 1 up with any sort of tests, please.

Mind commenting on what I said instead of just ignoring it? Or nothing to say anymore?

[Kripparrian]

all my statements are based on tests which I have shown proof for. They might be bogus, they might not. All the information youve put out is fully speculative until you show us otherwise.

Using your claims I could just say that any tests are bogus but I think the gtx 460 performs 10x better than any ati card -- how would you comment on that? Its very difficult for me to debate you when I use objective tests/ facts and you dont.

[Cilraaz]

You really don't need more that a 5770 to run wow on ultra. There is a thread around here somewhere where cil outlines his build (i5 750 over clocked and a 5770). He runs 30+ fps (25m raid setting) on ultra with shadows.

Ultra with shadows at half ("Good", I believe under the new settings). Technically, I suppose it would be 18+ fps in 25-man raids, since Sindy trash (both packs pulled simultaneously) bring me down to 18. If I had the option today, I'd probably go with a GTX 460 1GB or Radeon 6850. Both are the current price-per-performance winners and are basically tied.

Its very difficult for me to debate you when I use objective tests/ facts and you dont.

Benchmarks with no statement of the standards used are not facts. I also pointed out in another thread that that site specifically mentions that they force settings via the drivers. WoW didn't like me doing that with my 5770, but has no problem with me doing it with my 8800GTS G92. That alone could account for the differences.

I'd like to see that site run the same benchmarks with the drivers set to "use application setting" and changing values in-game.

[Deleted]

all my statements are based on tests which I have shown proof for. They might be bogus, they might not. All the information youve put out is fully speculative until you show us otherwise.

Using your claims I could just say that any tests are bogus but I think the gtx 460 performs 10x better than any ati card -- how would you comment on that? Its very difficult for me to debate you when I use objective tests/ facts and you dont.

How on earth are it facts, when there is no sign whatsoever where it's tested? I could make a benchmark like that out of nothing, just put some bars together and you're done. I'd put a GTS 250 on Crysis with 40 FPS and a GTX470 on 30. It says so in the benchmark with no further details, SO IT MUST BE TRUE OMG. I'm done here anyway, if you're so confident just go with the list and base it on bullshit benchmarks. You're just wrong. But hey, if you're too ignorant. Go ahead m8.

[Kripparrian]

I guess I misused the F word there.
There arent many many websites doing benchmarks on WoW. The one I presented is the only one I found that had recent (within the last year) benchmarks.

I understand the likelihood of inaccuracy in any benchmark, but I mean, what else would anyone base their decision on?

[Cilraaz]

I guess I misused the F word there.
There arent many many websites doing benchmarks on WoW. The one I presented is the only one I found that had recent (within the last year) benchmarks.

I understand the likelihood of inaccuracy in any benchmark, but I mean, what else would anyone base their decision on?

I understand that. However, using an almost certainly faulty benchmark to support "WoW favors nVidia" isn't really a fair thing to do. Faulty data is potentially worse than no data.

[ihearyoulikedataz]

In WoW, minimum framerate depends on CPU, maximum framerate depends on GPU - as long as both are reasonable for gaming purposes, ie. no integrated shit GPU or Intel Atom processor.

I'd just like to thank you for this little nugget of information. Brilliant!

[Psykopathic]

get a 1gb 460 for $20 more for that you get:
Memory Bandwidth: +28.8 GB/s
Pixel Fill Rate: +5400 MPixels/sec

[Deleted]

the cheapest 1gb gtx 460 on newegg is the gigabyte model for $189.99. A 26.7% cost increase. Looking at the benchmarks, in the worst case, the 1gb model beats it by 7% more fps.

Does a 26.7% cost increase justify a 7% increase in fps? No

you may have a point when it comes to other specific games, but as far as WoW is concerned, I've done my reasearch.

edit: keep in mind, the 7% fps increase occurs at 2560x1600 x4 AA ultra. Those are absurdly high settings, and yet only a 7% fps gain.

That logic is a bit flawed. Let's say an ATI 5970 costs £550, and a humble GTS 220 costs £56.99 (a little extreme I know, but I'm just trying to prove a point.) That's a 965.08% cost increase. Let's say, then, that at 1920x1080 resolution on crysis high settings, the GTS220 achieves 10fps and the 5970 achieves 100FPS. That relates to a 90% increase in FPS. Does a 965% cost increase justify a 90% increase in FPS? And also, the FPS in WoW is going to be over at least 50fps, and the eye cannot really notice any significant change about around 50FPS. So, say the 5770 gets 55fps and the gtx260 gets 62fps. Your eyes will not be able to perceive the difference. So in this situation you HAVE to take other games into account if you're going to get the best buy.

[Kripparrian]

all games performance per dollar: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/N...TX_580/29.html

gts 450, gtx 460 768mb, 6850 taking the top spots

also @moogley I dont really understand how you came to your conclusion that you have to take other games into account.
In any case, your example is fictional; at high settings the 5970 shows an 800% performance boost over the gts 220 *source = http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/N...TX_580/27.html

performance to dollar will usually favor mid end cards, not low or high end

[Eruu]

Hey Kripp, what's a good value monitor you would recommend that uses your resolution so I don't have to configure your UI ^_^

[Deleted]

Hey Kripp, what's a good value monitor you would recommend that uses your resolution so I don't have to configure your UI ^_^

That would totaly depend on your computer's spec.

[Kripparrian]

this is a pretty well priced monitor: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824236100

it is usually best to buy monitors locally because of high shipping rates.

When it comes to specs I go for 1920x1080 and <=2ms response. Size is subjective but I like 24" best with my computer setup.

[BicycleMafioso]

+1 to Kripp who does this and doesn't get distraught by the useless bickering on personal taste.

I can't see me adding anything, as this is obviously US-only, and is clearly not true over here. But expecting people to do it and taking every country into the consideration is, hm, stretching it.

[fableman]

So instead of arguing about the GPU I will point out something else I noticed about the build.

The WB black drives are a pretty poor value atm. They are only marginally faster than the samsung f3 drives but cost around 50% more ($60 for a 500gb drive vs $40).

---------- Post added 2010-12-01 at 02:36 PM ----------

To add to the video card debate-

I'm not going to argue the relative value of cards. My opinion on that is to just decide on how much you are willing to spend and pick the best performing card in that price range.

You really don't need more that a 5770 to run wow on ultra. There is a thread around here somewhere where cil outlines his build (i5 750 over clocked and a 5770). He runs 30+ fps (25m raid setting) on ultra with shadows.

Yeah, sure.. you can run WoW on Ultra using some ancient 4530 Mobile. Not an argument. I, myself, can't run WoW on Ultra (1080p + 4xMSAA) using 4870X2 + Q9550 with fps not dipping below 30 in raids. If people prefer playing chess on their PC instead of fast paced game, then yeah -- no problem.

P.S. Btw, WoW is CPU heavy (loves overclocks more than new GPUs).

to Kripparrian

Good choice of hardware, but I would advice to switch to a better CPU cooler as i5 760 tends to be a good clocker and not use its full potential is a crime, therefore a small investment in a better cooling would yield better performance/cost gains. IMO.

[Deleted]

The 212 is probably the best bang for buck cooler atm. Should be able to overclockg to 3.6-3.8 with it

[judurak]

At what point will these parts be outdated?