Not all classes can tank and/or heal, but do we really need all of them to DPS?

[Thermitus]

This is sort of an opposite idea to my other thread. "Why not let all classes tank"

Sure, I know there are reasons why all classes have a DPS spec and I'll throw up the best and most obvious one first. To remove DPS classes from hybrid classes would slow Questing down to a dull, boring and hugely time consuming chore. But is there a way to fix that? Prot Warriors can quest ok, healing specs would need more DPS, adding reactive damage like inflicting more damage upon being hit could speed up questing DPS while not making them viable group/raid DPS. There might be ways to keep them fun.

The reason I suggest this is because as we all know it's harder (there fore slower) to find a spot in a group or raid as DPS because there are so many DPS'ers out there.

Thoughts?

[Deleted]

its kinda unfair, really because overall there is no pro to being a pure dps-class, if there would be, that would propably take out all tanks and healer as dpser in the hard modes and stuff... but you cant giva a hunter an heal or tank specc... kinda sucks because you have to min-max but then again it makes dudu and pala three times as usefull as my hunter...

[sulfuric]

To change this for the world of warcraft game would destroy entire talent trees, specs and synergies. Years of development and gameplay would be undone, questing would be unfair for a few classes, solo play and farming would be unfair for some classes.


As far as your other threads, giving every class every spec would break the game. Homogenization would run rampant, there would be no point or purpose to be any given class or spec, everything is everything. The game would be destroyed as you know it, the game screen would only ask you to pick a skin color and face type. Class would be undone

[Deleted]

jeah thats pretty much a QQ thread so you might want to leave the logic on the front porch...
its obvius that there wont be any changes.

[Deleo]

You are arguing that there are not enough healers and tanks. Do you really wanna scare more of them away by making life harder for them? Many hybrid classes are not tanking or DPSing because they don't like it. I don't see how it is going to change by giving tanking specs to other classes or making life harder for healers or tanks? I think if someone has rolled a DPS it means he doesn't like tanking/healing, and I hardly see people saying "damn, I'm in love with my mage, things would have been perfect if I could tank with it, tho"

[zelamonster]

Unless we want to break PVP by creating tanks and healers that also do significant DPS...yes, we do need them to have a DPS spec.

[Deleted]

I think a fair trade off would be to let pure dps classes have the best CC which will be needed in cata and let classes than can tank or heal and dps have unreliable cc.

For example warlocks fear should make the target cower aka not run around like a headless chicken as were a priests should.

Mage and Rogues already have this with poly and sap (although sap should be usable in combat)

Ret pallys rependance (or whatever it called) should be a pure pvp thing and not effect mobs.

I suppose druid's are technically ok is roots is unreliable anyway and hibernate is very situational.

[Renagade Raven]

As well as what others have said; class balance, years of design, homogenisation etc going out the window there is a much more obvious reason.
It doesn't make sense.
Mages, hunters, priests, shaman, warlocks, and rogues don't have anything to let them tank.
It would also ruin the idea of armour classes, like plate > cloth, because these classes would be tanking without decent armour, yet in some way not be taking much damage.
Sorry, but horrible idea.

[Siraeyou]

As well as what others have said; class balance, years of design, homogenisation etc going out the window there is a much more obvious reason.
It doesn't make sense.
Mages, hunters, priests, shaman, warlocks, and rogues don't have anything to let them tank.
It would also ruin the idea of armour classes, like plate > cloth, because these classes would be tanking without decent armour, yet in some way not be taking much damage.
Sorry, but horrible idea.

Apparently you aren't aware of when Shamans had some tanking talents ages ago
Warlocks make good mage tanks for fights such as Blood Princes if you didn't want to use a tank on Keleseth
Rogue evasion tanking ftw. I know this one doesn't prove much, but hey I evasion tanked Arthas for the last few % for our guild's first 25m kill so you can't say they don't have anything

[Renagade Raven]

For example warlocks fear should make the target cower aka not run around like a headless chicken as were a priests should.

There's a glyph for that ;]

Ret pallys rependance (or whatever it called) should be a pure pvp thing and not effect mobs.

So... a Dps should be worse at something than all the other Dps, because the other specs on his class (which don't affect his gameplay at all as a Dps, seeing as he doesn't get their benefits while doing so) can tank or heal? I don't really get that, at all.

I suppose druid's are technically ok is roots is unreliable anyway and hibernate is very situational.

You forgot Cyclone, which is one of the best. And Roots does damage/allows you to still attack the target so is different. If it were in some way "worse" than the others, that wouldn't be a good thing. It also affects some targets immune to other crowd control

[Deleted]

Also a stupid idea. Why? Because you choose a class not a role. If you choose a mage then you could read in the description that you can only do dps. If you dont like it.. there are 9 other slots per server to fill up with "hybrids".

Lets take the idea a bit further shall we? Striping Tanks from DD specs and healers too.
PvP = dead
also we would have to remove EVERY SINGLE DEFENSIVE SKILL from DDs. No evasion for rogues, no dodge, no blind, no stun, no sprint, no cloak of shadows, no parry, stealth, vanish... recuperate
mages: no manashield, no frostshield, no frostarmor, no iceblock, no frostnova, no slow effects, no 5% dodge, invisibility...
warlocks: no pet-aggro, no teleport, no increased armor, no health regeneration, no fear, no stun,...

Just because those are defensive abilities and should be reserved for tanking only classes or reserved for healers if it reggs health. also mana regeneration should be limited to healers as well (fancy the 1% mana for 10 seconds).


This idea is more stupid than the other idea for more than obvious reasons.

In the real world people that have a job should not be allowed to have free time as they get money. People without a job should not be able to have money whatsoever as they have free time.
see the logic?

[Renagade Raven]

Apparently you aren't aware of when Shamans had some tanking talents ages ago
Warlocks make good mage tanks for fights such as Blood Princes if you didn't want to use a tank on Keleseth
Rogue evasion tanking ftw. I know this one doesn't prove much, but hey I evasion tanked Arthas for the last few % for our guild's first 25m kill so you can't say they don't have anything

Yeah they all have some damage reducing talents or abilities, this doesn't make them reliable tanks, and doesn't mean they should be made into tanks ;]
And no, Shaman didn't have proper tanking talents, they had a little shield block and defence, but weren't designed for tanking anything harder than a level 40 dungeon. Those talents were just some damage reduction ones, because that's the way it worked then =P

[Irony]

So basically force me to heal on my Priest/Shaman? Ya fuck that....

[Thermitus]

I posted this for the purpose of new ideas on how the game could work in other ways. You know, like a think tank of sorts. I can see now that really isn't going to work here...

[Deleted]

Apparently you aren't aware of when Shamans had some tanking talents ages ago
Warlocks make good mage tanks for fights such as Blood Princes if you didn't want to use a tank on Keleseth
Rogue evasion tanking ftw. I know this one doesn't prove much, but hey I evasion tanked Arthas for the last few % for our guild's first 25m kill so you can't say they don't have anything

In cataclysm we get taunt! We can still parry (enhancement only) and block (with shield equipped, but enhancement can do that). also we wear mail and have more armor than a warrior paladin dps and always have more armor than deathknights due to 12k armor on shields.

So there you got it, we can taunt and have a fair amount of avoidance.. I guess thats why there was one shaman actively tanking in ICC25NH

[Deleted]

So... a Dps should be worse at something than all the other Dps, because the other specs on his class (which don't affect his gameplay at all as a Dps, seeing as he doesn't get their benefits while doing so) can tank or heal? I don't really get that, at all.

You forgot Cyclone, which is one of the best. And Roots does damage/allows you to still attack the target so is different. If it were in some way "worse" than the others, that wouldn't be a good thing. It also affects some targets immune to other crowd control

pallys not having repentance in pve would lower there dps how exactly?

Cyclone is 6 seconds on mobs aswell as players so meh and roots can break under damage so its not really recomended to nuke that mob.

[Rude Hero]

To respond to the original post, I don't think what you're suggesting would lower dps queue times. People that want to dps will dps, even if it means they'll have to reroll to do it.

What I'd be more interested in is giving more classes access to tanking/healing specs and abilities.

Edit: And it's not like pures don't get anything in return. The gap is closing, but pures have always had more mobility and control when compared to hybrids. Each class has roughly the same number of abilities. The hybrids have the same number as the pure, even though they satisfy two or more roles.

[Deleted]

Yeah they all have some damage reducing talents or abilities, this doesn't make them reliable tanks, and doesn't mean they should be made into tanks ;]
And no, Shaman didn't have proper tanking talents, they had a little shield block and defence, but weren't designed for tanking anything harder than a level 40 dungeon. Those talents were just some damage reduction ones, because that's the way it worked then =P

Actually shamans were planned as tanks because alliance theoretically had paladins. We still do have a shieldwall for 30% can wear shields, can dodge and parry and wear mail which gives good mitigation with the shield equipped. Shamans were supposed to tank much like paladins will in cataclysm and deathknights always have. by healing themselves.
in cata we get a taunt so whats up with that?
there also was defensive mail gear in the game fyi

[Deleted]

To respond to the original post, I don't think what you're suggesting would lower dps queue times. People that want to dps will dps, even if it means they'll have to reroll to do it.

What I'd be more interested in is giving more classes access to tanking/healing specs and abilities.

Edit: And it's not like pures don't get anything in return. The gap is closing, but pures have always had more mobility and control when compared to hybrids. Each class has roughly the same number of abilities. The hybrids have the same number as the pure, even though they satisfy two or more roles.

but you dont get to use those abilities, ask arcane mages, i never played one but was it 1-1-1-2 or something for a more or less two button rotation?

[Rude Hero]

Coming in a future expansion:

Every class gets a fourth spec.