Poll: How should Raid Progression work?

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  1. #1

    End-Game Content

    Hi.

    I am wondering about how YOU think players should progress through raids. Should everyone be able to jump straight to the last or next last tier of raiding? Or shold everyone have to work their way up, starting with the intro raid of the expansion? To illustrate what I mean, I'll use some examples:

    In Classic WoW, only a very small percentage of the playerbase were able to raid, so I'm going to exclude it for now.

    In TBC, we saw a perfect example of the second option. There were lots of raids, including both single boss raids and long-ass raids that took ages to complete. However, just about every raider went through Karazhan before any other raid. Then, there was a middle tier with Tempest Keep and the small raids. Finally, there were Illudan and Kil'Jaeden. This way, just about everyone who were raiding Black Temple or Sunwell Plateau had considerable raiding experience and probably good gear. However, many remained stuck at Karazhan throughout the whole expansion.

    In Wrath of the Lich King, we started pretty much how TBC had started: Naxx was the intro raid, and we had several small raids in OS, EoE and even stuff like VoA. Then, when Ulduar came, we were suddenly introduced to the new way things worked: Badges from Heroics were buffed, so that you could now get Ulduar-level gear without even touching Naxxramas. This trend continued through ToC and Icc. Even though the 25 mans and ther HC versions always remained a notch or two above the HC gear, it was now much easier for the general playerbase to access raiding content. Blizzard hit a new record in number Subscribers, but many "hardcore" raiders complained (complainS) that Wrath was too easy and noob friendly.

    There are many opinions, and they are all biased.A new expansion is coming up, and only Blizzard knows what system will be used. What do you want for Cataclysm?

    What do YOU think?


    tl;dr What kind of raid progression system should be used in the future?

  2. #2
    In my opinion, the wotlk model was the best one, where everyone could jump into the second highest tier with a little time invested in heroics, and then quickly move on to the latest tier when all the "farmable" stuff had been farmed. This makes it more fun (in my opinion) to play alts, since it makes it a lot easier to go on raids with the people I usually play with, without dragging them through content that is outdated for them (unless they happen to have an alt at the same gear level as me). It also makes rerolls much easier to do, which is a good thing when in a high-end raiding guild.
    -

  3. #3
    You should be able to jump to the highest tier but not get gear equivalent to that tier without raiding.
    What it means in a WotLK model:
    Triumphs in heroics were good, especially for alts.
    Frost as dailies were really bad, it "forced" everybody to run heroics everyday making most people hate them and it made gear up to ilvl 264 accessible to some very bad players with close to no effort.

    And ofc the actual way things are... being able to buy everything from running heroics is very messed up but Cata goes live in just a little bit so it's alright I guess.
    Last edited by Terranor; 2010-12-01 at 04:49 AM.

  4. #4
    I say Wrath model with Attunements. You know like kill atleast one last boss from each tier not as ridiculous as BC ones.

  5. #5
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  6. #6
    also for buying gear. Absolutely no Tier gear

  7. #7
    I think you should have to start with Molten Core and work your way up.

  8. #8
    I like the cata model, getting the gear 1 tier lower than the current tier, its good that way. Now you can get a full t10 set without setting foot in ICC, i wouldn't mind getting the full t9 set from badges and then go into ICC which is what the Cata model is

  9. #9
    Deleted
    You should be able to obtain gear 2 tiers behind the current through heroics to gear up for raids.

    So basically, at raid tier 13 you can get tier11 from the regular Justice Points and then also be able to farm out a fixed amount of Valor Points weekly to buy the tier13 and/or tier12 missing offset items. Guilds who recruit 'undergeared' can use that month for the trials, take people to some raids/bosses to see how they play along with the rest, but also not go into total panic mode or have to farm 3 other tier of raids to gear one or two persons up.

    The idea behind gearing up easier for raids is fine, but in its wotlk implementation it also made the whole gearing process far too easy and the tiers/gear levels completely lost any meaning. The tbc model was far too grindy and hard. A good middle would be the above.

  10. #10
    I think all raid content should matter. By that I mean they should offer the same items just upgraded for the next tier on the points vendors, and have the rest need to be gotten from the old content. Lets face facts, the content isn't hard by any means anymore. Take a week or two to gear up a character to play with you isn't really that big of a deal. Just seems like Blizzard likes to stand by the "That's old content" adage now. If that's the case though, they might as well just 1) remove it or 2) offer it for free if it is never meant to be used again. I'd gladly play on a free Blizzard run server without the $15 a month price tag to get all the content that Blizzard considers unimportant while the elite who think endgame is the only important area can have their new raids.

  11. #11
    BC style.....without question. It proved that players could make the hard stuff and weed out the less "raid qualified".
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorehowl View Post
    BOSS IS TANKED BY 1 TANK, OTHER TANK JUST JERKS OFF TILL THAT ONE ADD COMES OUT LOL SO FUN
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight Gil View Post
    Dear sir, would you kindly stop saying such retarded bullshit?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by mezzodave View Post
    I think you should have to start with Molten Core and work your way up.
    This.

  13. #13
    We constantly see these new threads, enough already.

    Blizzard isn't going to change and the qq isn't either. Why would they? Its a foolish system. If a player comes to the game late, and wants to compete with other raiders, why should he/she do pugs that probably will disband after a couple of wipes or join a guild that isn't progressing well? Sure the systems in Cataclysm will fix things because the challenging difficulty in heroic 5 mans and in raids but that doesn't change the fact that some epics that the player may want may not even drop, did you jackasses ever figure that out? Meaning regardless of the new learning curve being introduced in Cataclysm, players still got to hope their drops come and still have to compete with players that maybe they don't even deserve the drops. Remember trying to pug through Gruuls Lair or Karazhan, see how well that turned out? OH HO Magtheridons Lair Pug, I remember those days .

    Quote Originally Posted by Restorection View Post
    BC style.....without question. It proved that players could make the hard stuff and weed out the less "raid qualified".
    Yes players that didn't raid at current content are sure to not be "raid qualified". Give me a break.

    Oh yeah, if a player is new to the game, its obvious the learning curve on how to play the game for that person will be high because of the new systems coming to the game.

    Stop comparing Wrath to Cataclysm you idiots. They aren't the same thing.
    Last edited by FattGuy; 2010-12-01 at 05:51 AM.

  14. #14

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Restorection View Post
    BC style.....without question. It proved that players could make the hard stuff and weed out the less "raid qualified".
    Elitist remark is elitist.

    I don't really care about the Epeen and I liked the way you could quickly gear alts. Also, like the OP said, many guilds were stuck in Kara during TBC. While this was partly because of the jump from 10 man to 25 man, it still sucked that guilds would have to go back and gear new people up when they were faced with some leavers.
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    HA! I have to admit I only play WoW for the homoerotic innuendoes

  16. #16
    Deleted
    Blizz should make you go through all raid tiers, at least because the older instances are (or should be) equally fun and new players shouldn't ignore them completely. In BC, you could buy some badge gear to help you to quicker complete the lower tiers, this is a mechanic that would need to be expanded. They should NOT let you buy gear from one tier below the current just by doing heroics, as that is not fun.

  17. #17
    While Wotlk model is good for alts/rerolers as stated before, but i find it generally wrong.

    Basically it does just the oposite of what it's suposed to do.
    Now, i'm not an elitist that thinks ppl shouldn't get to see the latest tier, we have normal/heroic mode to sattisfy both player groups in that regard.
    What bothers me is that wotlk progression model is made under banner of "let everyone see the content" and what it does is it pushes ppl to skip awesome raids of lower tiers. How many players went straight from HC-s to TotC or ICC and missed Ulduar. Missed the raid that is by general consensus of playerbase best, or atleast in top 3 best raids ever.

    Therfore i'd like to see a new model:
    Wotlk model of beeing able to jump to final tier raid but with a twist.
    The twist beeing that in order to enter the next tier raid you need to complete previous one JUST ONCE. It would function as attunment of a kind, but without tedious quests and shit, just plain and simple: Kill KT-->go to Ulduar-->kill Yoggy-->go to TotC-->kill Anub-->go to ICC. No gearfarming, no weeks lost, just one simple clear, and it can all be done in one week.

    This way everyone would be able to jump into last tier as in Wotlk, but everyone would also see all of raiding content instead of skipping awesome things.
    Last edited by Khazaad; 2010-12-01 at 11:08 AM.

  18. #18
    i like the progression to be linear, so no hopping from heroics to LK as was possible now in WOTLK.
    Lets hope cataclysm is more like my liking.

  19. #19
    Deleted
    I prefer the BC model. It allowed a lot of guilds to see BT/Hyjal, while they were still doing the previous ones due to a clear progression path. The disadvantage of this model is adding rerollers/alts/new players to your raiding roster which basically forces the guild to do a couple raids from the last tier in order to equip someone.

    The Wrath model isn't the way to go, its original intention is to alleviate adding new members to your raid, which it does fine. however it adds a new problem: while earlier many people didn't see the high end raids now a lot of new players won't see the low end raids. there is no reason to go naxx or ulduar when you can get better gear from running heroics. A Simple equation of Risk vs. Reward.
    Also I feel getting such powerful gear from 5-man dungeons is just too much. Raiding guilds battle for months for this gear and in the next patch you can get the same for doing heroics, which can easily be done in green questing gear (at least this won't be the case in Cata, but still they are designed for a ilvl 333 party, getting ilvl 359+ gear from this is just too much)

    Continuing this model in Cata will lead to the same effect, i hope blizzard will consider this, though I fear they are fixed on this current model. I'd really like to see a clear progression path and every player experiencing every raid.

  20. #20
    With playing lots of alts I kind of like the idea to be able to jump into raids quickly.


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