Not so easy?

[lukyl]

Everyone seems to complain about Wotlk being too easy, but i would confidently say that 99% of those people have not done Lich king 25 heroic mode. people complain about Wrath having been so easy and blizz has given up on allowing raiders a challenge and that cata raiding will also be too easy. but people fail to realise that in their comparisons to vanilla, (who half of which never played they just seen videos) that there were around 5million less players to raid with, if a comparrison of the number of people who have downed Lich King 25 in heroic mode, was made against the number of people to took down KT in naxx in vanilla, compensating for the much lower wow population at the time, the numbers would be roughly the same.

people complain about wrath raids being to easy, but these people have hardly even tried the heroic versions at the time of their relevance. thers no use saying that wrath raiding bacome way to nub friendly etc. because yes normal raiding did, but blizzard reserved heroic raiding for those more hardcore gamers. So just realise that yes normal raids are shit loads easier then any raid was at vanilla, and most of BC, but heroic raiding and hard mode raiding (ulduar) during their relevant times are practically just as hard, and in most cases actually alot more creative.

so remeber that when you move into cataclysm and you might think raiding is still too easy, do the heroic versions then talk.

[Smoopie]

I agree 1000%..

People who never cleared more than 2 ulduar hardmodes, never killed yogg+1, never even attempted togc and killed 3-4 hardmodes in icc before 30%

OF COURSE those bosses are easy, they are suppose to! This expansion has become a lot of watching it on youtube=I did it. Or "why do the hardmodes it is the same fight derp derp"

Naxx was a joke yes, everything after that was a challenge IF you did it when it first came out IN the correct gear and BEFORE nerfs..

Killing yogg+1 or any of the keepers hardmode for the first time in december was not a challenge
Killing anub togc in icc gear was not a challenge
Doing 8-11 hardmodes once 30% buff came out (along with being geared out the ass) was not a challenge


It is funny that if you read the wow forums you can always check the armory of someone saying how easy stuff is and they haven't completed anything when it was current content (if they didn't post on an alt) "ohh my alt has everything but i can't tell you who that is"

[Chronius]

Only hard part in this game is finding 9/24 non retarded people to group with

[Jademist]

How about this...They go raid without DBM, without having watched prior videos on the raids, and on heroic modes, with gear that is not equal or greater to the raid they are running.

[Téuntjûh]

I am one of the people who never killed LK25hc, only done 11/12 ICC 25hc.
Still I think WotLK was too easy.
Just allowing all bosses to have a heroic mode isn't bringing anything new.
Little bit of tactic change but in the end it's still the same boss you defeat.
I think blizzard is just making it's easy for themselves by making heroic versions of bosses.
Give at least 1 boss thats hard on normal

[Hailstrm]

-Virgin Post-

It's only hard to you if you make it hard. Often, it's about coordination with a group and not being a hero. Learn the fights, upgrade your gear, and communicate. That's really about it.

[deevicoos]

1-2% did HLK on 25 and about 5% on 10 man. Though the changes in 4.0 probably increased the numbers a bit. The problem is that ICC was 30% from July. Blizzard dropped the ball badly on that one, as they assumed cata would be ready earlier. I think also because 4.0 trivialised every boss except HLK it's not really a fair comparison there (PP and sindy became a lot less fatal when the DPS had an extre 10Khp to play with, they'd been hard the weeks before but when that patch hit we facerolled).

The problem is, and I'm going somewhere with the above, is that people remember later in the day more vividly when even the top guilds had to worry about killing festergut normal for a few weeks. As things have become easy, people have forgotten further back, they became easy, they weren't always but people just overlooked that. Our realm's pretty backwards our number 1 guild is 190th in the world, but that's still ahead of 99.5% of people, I think even they weren't one shotting fester the first few times they hit him.

[Kelzam]

It amuses me to no end that people believe one or two bosses make an entire expansion and two years worth of content.

[Myrrar]

It amuses me to no end that people believe one or two bosses make an entire expansion and two years worth of content.

This.

Alg 25 with the right gear was difficult. Yogg+1/0 and firefighter were difficult. LK25HM was difficult. Besides that, Wrath WAS easy.

If they hadn't added in %buff to ICC and balanced it correctly I think most people would stand by "wrath was good raiding wise". But you focus on the beginning and the end, and both Naxx and ICC were extremely underwhelming from a top end game point of view.

Uld HMs = amazing
ICC HMs = same boss with added bull shit

[Cerus]

I think most of the easy complaints are towards the 5-mans which is the biggest part WoW. I dare say that you spend more time in 5 mans than you every will in a raid. And frankly they are right - LK heroics were far to easy far too fast which has been "fixed" in Cata. Eventually people will out gear them but the mechanics still require a good amount of coordination. There are just some boss fights where gear doesn't mean squat and will never allow you to overpower it while ignoring it's mechanics.

However in terms of raiding - the problem I and many others have is that you have the ezmode normal raids and then hardmodes. Nothing in between. Hardmodes are fine and all but it's no replacement for challenging boss fights. Pugs were killing Marrowgar the day ICC came out - that just ain't right for the final raid of an expansion.

[Munki]

It amuses me to no end that people believe one or two bosses make an entire expansion and two years worth of content.

^ 100%

Also Ulduar was a very fun raid, different fights, structure was amazing. Then we got the filler raid ToC and it was ok, got boring fast running it 4 times a week, but it did bring dailies that got my toons exalted with the different cities.

But after Ulduar, ICC was just ok, Yeah it was exciting to worry about trash again but really the only danger was when you didnt have a rogue for traps and after the buff it was ALT farming on easymode.

[Cerus]

firefighter were difficult.

I think the term your looking for is crazy #@$ insane. FF was no cake walk and still isn't - especially for people who never even saw Uld when it was current let alone a hardmode and there are a lot of people like that. Throw in people who have never even experienced a fight that takes "don't stand in the fire" to a whole new level and you've got yourself one heck of a boss encounter.

I loved Uld and it's probably my favorite raid out of Wrath - ToC was a snorefest but Naxx was alright.

[Aspid07]

1 boss being hard does not negate the fact that the expansion as a whole was easy. Full tier sets were handed to people with little to no effort or raiding.

[Deleted]

The main problem is finding people who did not slip into the "Hurr hurr overgeared and buffed, easy faceroll LK LOL" mentality. They're the ones who start slacking, standing in crap and generally wiping the raid while complaining that it's all so easy and everyone sucks.
I admit I haven't even gotten LK Normal on 10-man down, not for lack of trying :| But every single time I manage to secure any kind of spot into ICC, the raid promises an LK kill and turns out to be still on progression-tactics. Only one group sofar was so decent as to give me some cash for repairs.

I stand by my own nuance on the 'not so easy' as given by the OP.
The content IS relatively easy; It's just tricky and needs to be properly mastered. And it's the latter part that makes so many people fail when the encounters become trivialised by sheer gear+hp. Right down to the point where fledgeling raiders have been taught by heroics that you can just power through the insta-death mechanics of bosses. (how many people still ran away from the Dispersion of that lightning dude in HoL before the patch?)

As far as hard-modes go, I do think the Ulduar ones were better executed. It's not just 'boss has more hp or hits harder', it actually meant changing your entire fightplan for most of the bosses WHILE he hit harder or had more hp. It was more like "Challenge mode" instead of Hardmode.

[Monran]

It amuses me to no end that people believe one or two bosses make an entire expansion and two years worth of content.

This. And the argument I always see against Wrath being easy is "HLK25 no buff".
I haven't seen HLK. I know 12/12, seen 10/12. Was this expansion easy? Hell yes.
"Well you haven't done HLK" Yeah, and? It was still an easy expansion.

[Torne]

WotLK had some of the most difficult bosses ever.
the problem is, all heroics and most of the bosses in normal mode are simply so easy that even retards (and I mean REAL retards who couldn´t even down Attumen in BC) could down them.
And in my oppinion, the hardest hardmodes do not make up for pushover normal modes, you should at least be able to play you char to see all the bosses.(Yes, I know for example a mage that has kingslayer and several hardmodes 25 and didn´t even know he could decurse and blink out of stuns)

[xile]

This. And the argument I always see against Wrath being easy is "HLK25 no buff".
I haven't seen HLK. I know 12/12, seen 10/12. Was this expansion easy? Hell yes.
"Well you haven't done HLK" Yeah, and? It was still an easy expansion.

You're argument is soooo bad. What do you expect? There really is little to no middle ground on this game. Yeah you got 10/12 but how much time did you spend on that? Did you walk in after 2 days and clear it all? You obviously didn't get 12/12 on heroic so what is the problem? That they made the easy mode.... easy. And i'd put money on the fact that unless you were in a pretty decent guild you weren't clearing newly released content all that week. And then i bet you spent the next 4 months or so working on the hard modes. Of course something is easy once you have it down pat. Remember doing something like as simple as tying your shoes? It was hard when you started but now it's as easy as pie. Same thing works with WoW, there are only so dimensions of hard you can do before it gets to the point that it's dam near impossible. See yog 0 pre nerfs in ulduar gear, and icc 25 h lk with 264 gear with no buff. Pretty much borderline impossible. If anything complain about the lack of medium content, then again thats the content that you finally cleared after 3-4 months of wiping again and again on the most random fails. Yeah it may seem easy now but please go tell me the last time you spent 4 months working on something and called it really easy. Point being unless you're one of the 5% maybe of the population that walked in and cleared stuff week after week, then you have no room to be liek OMG wows easy, cause last time i checked wiping for months on old content and still not getting to see the end doesn't sound like an accomplishment.

[lukyl]

^
great response =) exactly what im saying.

and to the others who have said that having just a small set of bosses that were actually a great challenge but that doesn't make up for so many easy ones and non challenging heroic ones, yes i do totally agree with you, but still to have come away from wrath having done 80%+ of the content is no cake walk.

But yes, bring on cataclysm and challenging normal modes and insanely intense Heroic mode raiding XD

[Jazzhands]

Only a handful of guilds have downed HLK WITHOUT the ICC buff. That alone show's how difficult the fight was ment to be. I havn't done 25 HLK, but I have done 10. It took us about 2 nights of hard core practice to get the fight down. I hear of guilds spending weeks on the fight, but I don't see why, the fight really wasn't that bad. Now, if they're disabling the 30% buff, I can see it. I had a lot more trouble with Fire Fighter and such at gear level. The buff is the only reason ICC H modes are as easy as they are. Without that, most pugs probably wouldn't get past Saurfang or Rot/Fester.

Heroic ICC 10 is tuned to be done in 251/264 gear. Take a pug of decent players in this gear level, disable the ICC buff, and see how far you get. Will you face roll some bosses? Maybe, it depends on the group and how much heroic experience they have, but you'll probably have some trouble with certain bosses. This is how ICC was meant to be, not the face roll it currently is thanks to the 30% buff.

[Resies]

I am one of the people who never killed LK25hc, only done 11/12 ICC 25hc.
Still I think WotLK was too easy.
Just allowing all bosses to have a heroic mode isn't bringing anything new.
Little bit of tactic change but in the end it's still the same boss you defeat.
I think blizzard is just making it's easy for themselves by making heroic versions of bosses.
Give at least 1 boss thats hard on normal

This is like playing a single player game on easy then complaining that everything was... easy.

If you want harder bosses play on hard!