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  1. #61
    Herald of the Titans
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    It was because p2 before they hotfixed it was literally impossible to beat him due to tentacles spawning in his stomach, not to mention all of the lovely rng bullshit that could happen at any given time. Not to mention the dps needed to kill everything in a reasonable time frame wasn't possible with the way abilities were and the amount of movement involved and target switching.

  2. #62
    Phase 1: Spread the raid out by group through the entire room, group one takes the 12 position, group 2 takes 1:30-2:00, and so forth. Melee had to be assigned properly as well, ranged dps stood in the far back and healers in between both. The raid I did it with at 60 had everyone in at least 200 nature resist from gear alone (Turning 2.5k green beams on my 3k hp mage into 1/2 or less). Dps small eyes tentacle > small tentacle > eye of c'thun. We already had bigwigs back then which gave us range checks. When C'thun cast his red eye laser, everyone would rotate 180 degrees to other side of the room, keeping your same position, moving in the same direction the eye beam moved.

    Phase 2: The entire raid ran to the stairs, 10 ranged dps were assigned to kill the small eye tentacles that spawned every 30 seconds, how everyone was stacked at the north, the big tentacles always spawned up north. When the first big tentacle spawns tank picked it up, everyone killed the closer eye tentacles (assigned ran and kill the ones in the back after it spawned) as the tank got some agro, and then we killed it. 30 seconds after the it spawned the new small eyes spawned and a big eye tentacle spawned. My guild had 6 mages, all of which had to as fast as they can target and counterspell the big eye tentacle, to not let it cast, which was followed by paladin hammer and then kidney shots, then any interrupts someone had.

    While all this was happening, people would be swallowed into the stomach, with the nature resist the stacking debuff wouldn't do as much damage as well. If someone was swallowed they had to use a nature protection potion (absorbs ~2k nature damage), if a healer you healed, and if you were a dps you attacked the 2 tentacles in the stomach, once the debuff started doing some damage you had to get out, it would take maybe 1 minute 30-2 minutes to get them both down, when both died c'thun would become vulnerable and he would be dpsed, however the tentacle had to be killed just a few seconds before the one outside was or the entire vulnerability phase would be wasted, if it took more than 3 of these it would generally be a wipe because to many people have died and healers wouldn't have mana. As a mage I had arcane elixir, greater arcane elixir, firepower elixir, flask of supreme power, mana potions and nature resist potions, as well as brilliant weapon oil....

    Having killed C'thun at 60 and having Light of Dawn, I would say LK is indeed a harder fight, but C'thun requiring so many people to farm so many mats and resist gear, would make him a much bigger pain in the ass....

  3. #63
    prolly said before, but the raid dps requirement for phase 2 could not be reached by the then typical ways (until the hotfix). it was encounters like this that spawned the necessity of consumables such as a food buff or flask.

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  4. #64
    I don't remember if there was a hard enrage on C'thun? As everyone explained about mechanics - everything going on in conjunction with mana restraints made a lot of OOM.

    There were no 50 some strategy guides/videos on the encounter, many guilds went in blind and learned the hard way.

    There were no 500 some addons to nerf the difficulty into the ground. No, I'm honest play the game without DBM or any other raiding addon/UI once in a while.

    60 -> 40 -> 25 -> 10. There is no comparison of a 10 man raid to a 60 man. Trying to coordinate 60 people of the right class composition. Coordinate healers, tanks, focus fire dps, all while spreading out. Keeping all those people at their computer; without starvation, bladder, or some major emergency pulling them away. Keeping people with high enough moral to show up, ON TIME, and beat your head against a boss long enough to make progress.

    1/3th of the talents/skills you had today. Secretly I call this a blessing as I like working with limited resources. But with todays raiding is trick for every occasion. Gear for Raid. = Raid for gear. There was no free hand outs or "im gonna faceroll an alt, I'll be in AQ next week". No, this is not a bash on WotLK.

    In all serious yes, C'thun can be dumb-ed down into logic. Spread out, a LOT. Tank tentacles and burst down everything you see. Get eaten, kill his stomach. Don't die. Limbo around the eye-beam. I'm probably missing one or two but point is it sounds easy on paper. The difficulty of the game has shifted a lot since vanilla, many things that made an encounter difficult had little to do with the mechanics of the boss. They were physical restrictions on performance (paladin dps anyone?), execution (group A group B group C), and attendance (need I mock this any further?).

  5. #65
    C'thun was a nicely overtuned boss but nowhere near as deadly as the Lich King Heroic. If not for the 30% buff I'm sure most players wouldn't get to it.

    More so there's only 1 guild that has done it without the buff and C'thun was done by dozens of guilds.

    Encounter difficulty went up since Vanilla, however so did player skill. Back then very few people knew how to play the game let alone theory-craft or document so extensively on encounters.

    Even before Wrath hit in WoW's popularity spawned numerous information sites that teach the player in great detail with videos, detailed information about each ability, solutions and loads of debates from other players. If that information would have been available at 60 I'm positive that the number of guilds who'd of defeated C'thun back then would of greatly increased.

    Fact is WoW is a gear based game as well as a skill based game. Making encounters over-tuned for the available gears means they'll become trivial when better gear is obtained. Most people that did go now in T10 to see Yogg 0 have no idea of how much of a pain it was; remember on E-J they stated as impossible to do it with that gear lvl yet with a trick (using hunter pets to tank) Stars managed to take the kill. <<< Now that is skill, when you face the odds that say you're not going to do it and then come up with a wacky solution to "bypass" the requirements.

    Right now comparing encounter X to incounter Y from past to present is unbalanced. I'm sure that those who you played with and even yourselves grew into your characters, you've become more skillfull as time passed and better at playing and reacting to encounters.
    Personally I've started since TBC and those fights I thought were over-the-top impossible for me I could do them now without any kind of problem. I've improved myself and so have you. It's like comparing yourself from now with a way younger version.

    So in the end it's best to do things at their time and live the moment.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by gwarsh41 View Post
    Wasnt one of the 25 man hard mode Ulduar bosses supposed to be impossible to beat. Still only a handfull of guilds have downed him I think.
    Yogg-Saron with the help of 0 keepers is still pretty hard now. I remember doing with one add up in a PuG on 25 man and it was pretty intense, so I can imagine +0 being pretty fun.

  7. #67
    Having killed C'Thun before stepping into Naxx, at level 60, he is both one of my favorite fights and one that gives me nightmares to this day. Killing him was an accomplishment and anyone who did down him before BC came out will attest to that.

    (Here's a few things I can still remember from that fight at 60. I played a Rogue, Combat Daggers)
    - tons of Nature Resist pots, I remember bringing over 80 for every raid on him
    - we split his room into 1/8 sections, 5 people in each section, all in a party for easier communication
    - you stayed with your group while moving with the eye beam in P1, when P2 started you stayed where you were with your group
    - having to reapply Instant Poison 3x just in P1, stupid charges
    - pro amazing DPS warriors who could switch to tanking the tentacles when needed
    - ranging down the big tentacles in P2 because we couldn't leave our 'section'
    - found an old video of our server first kill (youtube. com/watch? v=WpJ8c3QPnCU ) - mind the spaces, couldnt post the entire link

    (puts on rose tinted glasses)
    Ha. Such good times there. I miss those days, days where killing a boss was epic, truly epic. Lots of time and effort were put in. Farming previous raids to get people the top gear needed, there were no vendor bought items Badges/Marks/JPs. Back then there were no normal or hard modes, just brutal; Vael, Huhu, Twin Emps, etc.
    (takes glasses off)

    Vanilla raiding was very rewarding in that the months you put in on 1 encounter paid off, the boss is dead, you did it. Anyone that says MC/BWL/AQ/Naxx were boring are mostly talking out of their asses. I've stepped into those zones when they first came out and the level of difficulty was set on high. Imagine that every raid in LK was set only on Heroic mode, thats what Vanilla raiding was, and guilds still took down bosses.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by yovmit98 View Post
    spread clockwise in alphabetical order, duh :P
    You would think but that did not work because of the fact that the people that needed to be in certain spots such as healers in relation to tanks and their assigned heal's would not always have the right name. And it is still hard to spread out in that room and then move away from the beam while trying not to get to close to tentacles or death spots.

    ---------- Post added 2010-12-03 at 09:26 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    C'thun was a nicely overtuned boss but nowhere near as deadly as the Lich King Heroic. If not for the 30% buff I'm sure most players wouldn't get to it.

    More so there's only 1 guild that has done it without the buff and C'thun was done by dozens of guilds.

    Encounter difficulty went up since Vanilla, however so did player skill. Back then very few people knew how to play the game let alone theory-craft or document so extensively on encounters.

    Even before Wrath hit in WoW's popularity spawned numerous information sites that teach the player in great detail with videos, detailed information about each ability, solutions and loads of debates from other players. If that information would have been available at 60 I'm positive that the number of guilds who'd of defeated C'thun back then would of greatly increased.

    Fact is WoW is a gear based game as well as a skill based game. Making encounters over-tuned for the available gears means they'll become trivial when better gear is obtained. Most people that did go now in T10 to see Yogg 0 have no idea of how much of a pain it was; remember on E-J they stated as impossible to do it with that gear lvl yet with a trick (using hunter pets to tank) Stars managed to take the kill. <<< Now that is skill, when you face the odds that say you're not going to do it and then come up with a wacky solution to "bypass" the requirements.

    Right now comparing encounter X to incounter Y from past to present is unbalanced. I'm sure that those who you played with and even yourselves grew into your characters, you've become more skillfull as time passed and better at playing and reacting to encounters.
    Personally I've started since TBC and those fights I thought were over-the-top impossible for me I could do them now without any kind of problem. I've improved myself and so have you. It's like comparing yourself from now with a way younger version.

    So in the end it's best to do things at their time and live the moment.
    If you could get a guild to C'thun back in vanilla than every player knew what they were doing and theorycrafting didnt matter as much back then either.
    "A ship is safe floating in a harbor but thats not what ships are made for." - William Shedd

    "I didnt say most of the things that I said" - Yogi berra




  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by mypally View Post
    the mechanics themselves were not hard, non of the mechanics in vanilla were. What made it impossible was the health of the adds, the rate of spawn, and the fact that they never stopped spawning. You could just barely keep up with the adds with the full raid focused on them, that left no time to dps cthun, which made it an impossible encounter until they nerfed/fixed it. Its is somewhat analogous to herioc LK at 0% buff i suppose. But to make it feel more similar, imagine valks and vile spirits and defiles never stop spawning, even in transition phases.

    you just described the 'mechanics' that made the fight hard my friend

    ---------- Post added 2010-12-04 at 02:31 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    C'thun was a nicely overtuned boss but nowhere near as deadly as the Lich King Heroic. If not for the 30% buff I'm sure most players wouldn't get to it.

    More so there's only 1 guild that has done it without the buff and C'thun was done by dozens of guilds.

    2 guilds

    but regardless heroic lk 25 is the most challenging raid encounter the game has seen to date, you are 100% correct that people seem to forget about the 30% buff.

    C'thun to date remains my most favourite/nostalgic boss encounter in wow having killed him approx 4 times.

  10. #70
    Field Marshal Mistgun's Avatar
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    No matter how hard people say C'thun was, I don't think him 1 shotting people makes the fight hard, thats just having rng on your side or not. The boss mechanics is what matters, not how much damage he can do. just my 2 cents

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