Is 'Mail Specialization' reason enough to choose mail dungeon set?

[Tricksterjim]

Seriously? I really don't get why people think this way... Your class wears Mail... Wear Mail. I can't stand when Plate DPS wears Leather or when Plate Healers wear Mail/Leather/Cloth saying that it "Gives better stats." Look harder... You'll find stuff that gives the same stats with your own armor value... Stop stealing other Armor Classes armor.

In my opinion, if a Class is intended to use only PLATE, they shouldn't be able to wear Cloth, Leather, or Mail.
Mail Wearers shouldn't be able use Leather or Cloth.
Leather wearers shouldn't be able to wear Cloth.

Well you corrected yourself there. if a Class was intended to use only PLATE then Blizzard would not have allowed them to use other gear. Blizzard decided however that they wanted to encourage classes to use more of a specific gear, so no a DPS warrior might have to chose between a Mail piece with better stats or a gear specialization. Again if Blizzard only intended a class to use a specific gear, they would only allow that class to equip that specific gear. I guarantee you there will be pieces out there that will temp Plate wearers away from all Plate or Cloth caster pieces that temp druids/shammies.

What you can't stand doesn't matter if the BIS is not a classes ideal armor type.

[Bamboozles]

So basically you just said "My guild won't do whatever it takes to down a boss."?

An upgrade is an upgrade. A downgrade is a downgrade, no matter the gear.
At least, this was true in WLK, but Cata's Armor specialization reverses that. Finally I won't have to need on cloth-armor because Blizzard couldn't bother give Elemental Shamans proper non-tier-gear.

Very, very rarely is cloth an upgrade for anything that isn't a Priest. If you're a Paladin, you aren't ever going to get cloth above a Priest. People have said it before me, and I'll preach it again:

If you're serious about raiding, you're going to wear mail. If you don't like the look of mail, tough break.

[RedDragon4275]

Well you corrected yourself there. if a Class was intended to use only PLATE then Blizzard would not have allowed them to use other gear. Blizzard decided however that they wanted to encourage classes to use more of a specific gear, so no a DPS warrior might have to chose between a Mail piece with better stats or a gear specialization. Again if Blizzard only intended a class to use a specific gear, they would only allow that class to equip that specific gear. I guarantee you there will be pieces out there that will temp Plate wearers away from all Plate or Cloth caster pieces that temp druids/shammies.

What you can't stand doesn't matter if the BIS is not a classes ideal armor type.

Let me correct myself. If there's a Mage rolling for a piece of Cloth that's an upgrade for him/her and a Shaman want's to roll on the same piece... No. The Mage gets Dibs.

I still believe that Classes should stick to their armor classes. I also believe that your view on Blizzard wanting some classes to wear more than armor type is wrong. There are 2 main reasons I believe for this...

1. If Blizzard intended those classes to wear more than one Armor Class, they wouldn't have fixed the Issue with the Armor Specializations.
2. Just because a Class can use stats on another piece of Armor doesn't make it right. Why can Hunters Roll Leather, but Rogues can't roll on Mail?

I guess you could say I'm bitter. I'm a Rogue. It sucks to get beat on a Roll by a Hunter or Warrior when my roll should take priority because I actually wear the damn Leather.

[Hardalor]

Short answer: Yes.

That is the best statement. And so far, I'm seeing a lot of people failing to do real gear research. I mean, I won't say NO to a major cloth/leather upgrade myself. But if the mail piece of gear is there, I'd want it. Plus, for once, it feels like Ele (my spec) isn't getting totally shit on for gear, for most slots.. Which ALSO means Resto should be getting some nice gear along with it.
And I would hope I don't see any Resto Shaman complaining about Mastery. I haven't done research past the tool tip on Resto mastery, since I don't heal on my Shaman, but I would want that like Deathwing wants to kill things..

[Tricksterjim]

I guess you could say I'm bitter. I'm a Rogue. It sucks to get beat on a Roll by a Hunter or Warrior when my roll should take priority because I actually wear the damn Leather.

Yup I would. Ask any endgame druid how many pieces have ended up being cloth. It is a pain in the ass for the other side. But I can sympathize with you. I have lost Leather pieces to warriors because they were BIS.

But an endgame guild will gear their members in BIS. What you believe or think is "fair" doesn't really matter. What Blizz is doing is cutting down on the worst of it by giving extra incentive, but they are not getting rid of it.

[SkodLife]

Very, very rarely is cloth an upgrade for anything that isn't a Priest. If you're a Paladin, you aren't ever going to get cloth above a Priest. People have said it before me, and I'll preach it again:

If you're serious about raiding, you're going to wear mail. If you don't like the look of mail, tough break.

Are we talking Cata or WLK now?
If you mean Cata, yes.
If you mean WLK, no.
And are we talking Stats or Looks?

I have always meant that armor-type-restrictions is stupid, because an upgrade is an upgrade.
If a guild don't get that, the guild is not trying to do 100% to progress. A PuG is something else, but PuGs are not good raid-groups and not the proper way of playing raids.

However, with Cata you get (I believe) 5% extra [Stat] if you wear your correct armor-type. 5% is a huge deal in Cata with so high numbers. I haven't done theory-crafting, but I doubt I would ever NEED to use another piece of cloth again.

---------- Post added 2010-12-04 at 02:13 AM ----------

Let me correct myself. If there's a Mage rolling for a piece of Cloth that's an upgrade for him/her and a Shaman want's to roll on the same piece... No. The Mage gets Dibs.

I still believe that Classes should stick to their armor classes. I also believe that your view on Blizzard wanting some classes to wear more than armor type is wrong. There are 2 main reasons I believe for this...

1. If Blizzard intended those classes to wear more than one Armor Class, they wouldn't have fixed the Issue with the Armor Specializations.
2. Just because a Class can use stats on another piece of Armor doesn't make it right. Why can Hunters Roll Leather, but Rogues can't roll on Mail?

I guess you could say I'm bitter. I'm a Rogue. It sucks to get beat on a Roll by a Hunter or Warrior when my roll should take priority because I actually wear the damn Leather.

A rogue. No wonder.
Then let's try another way.

An Elemental Shaman in WLK needed hit (until capped), SP, Haste and Crit (in that order). MP5 and Spirit was useless.
Now, try look up the gear-list in Ulduar25 (or 10 for that sake) and find gear which is mail.

Every time a new patch came out, I had to search for possible gear to wear. It was more of a puzzle finding anything than finding BIS (I don't go much into theory crafting, but I know enough of my class).
That is not a good design, especially when e.g. rogues have gear at almost every boss.
Heck, even BIS gear when T9 was the highest had a ring with MP5 as Elemental. And don't forget: 3 specs had to whine a flood of tears before Blizzard FINALLY decided to make a proper weapons on LK25 for those 3 spec (I'm talking about the Mace which currently have SP, Haste and Crit).

Tell me why e.g. clothies and leather-users should have priority in armor-type, when I throughout the whole @£$#ing WLK had to use Cloth and Leather just give maximize my DPS!

[harky]

Let me correct myself. If there's a Mage rolling for a piece of Cloth that's an upgrade for him/her and a Shaman want's to roll on the same piece... No. The Mage gets Dibs.

Why would anyone want to be a part of a guild who gives priority on items based on a useless statistic like 'armor type'? The new system means it's a non-issue because Cloth is always a larger upgrade to cloth classes, leather to leather, etc. Before the new armor specializations the armor type should have been completely ignored by non-tanks. It was completely irrelevant.

[DomBomb1]

Why would anyone want to be a part of a guild who gives priority on items based on a useless statistic like 'armor type'? The new system means it's a non-issue because Cloth is always a larger upgrade to cloth classes, leather to leather, etc. Before the new armor specializations the armor type should have been completely ignored by non-tanks. It was completely irrelevant.

false. Any leather wearer who rolled on a cloth piece when there was an equivalent leather piece available was screwing the raid out of progression gear, cause when that leather piece does drop, you DE the cloth piece. If you gave cloth wearers priority on cloth, then that would never happen, and the overall raid gearing would be better. Anyone who says otherwise is greedy.

[Deleted]

There is no point taking any cloth or leather items. Even if its a large upgrade, I highly doubt it will beat the 5% gain.
In cata you should never be taking a different armour type over another class and tbh theres no point taking a different armour type even if no1 else needs it.
5% int gain is huge.

[Deleted]

I wouldn't raid with someone making me wear gear that is worse for me.

You mean making you wear armour that isn't native to your classes armour specialisation?

[hopshock]

It depends on your gear, the bonus is helpful though.

[Contrary Jerry]

Same thing happened to me, I was tanking on my Gnome Warrior and Emerald Saint's Spaulders dropped, and they look cool on my little gnome so I /rolled for them and beat this paladin. People tried telling me they are no good for warrior but i didn't listen.

[harky]

false. Any leather wearer who rolled on a cloth piece when there was an equivalent leather piece available was screwing the raid out of progression gear, cause when that leather piece does drop, you DE the cloth piece. If you gave cloth wearers priority on cloth, then that would never happen, and the overall raid gearing would be better. Anyone who says otherwise is greedy.

That's just ignorant.. If the Leather piece drops that would be DE'd, not the cloth. There were 3-4 best-in-slot cloth pieces for Druids in ICC. Same can be said of Mail for Paladins. Holy BiS had 3 pieces of Mail. Ret's had 1 piece of Leather. That isn't 'greedy' that is wanting the best for your character. The armor type has absolutely nothing to do with how good the gear was for a particular class until 4.0. My Resto Druid had a cloth belt and boots before 4.0. I rolled on them as upgrades from equal-ilevel leather items because the itemization was poor in those slots.

The whole reason people got gear from lower armor classes was because those pieces had better stats. Why would you have downgraded your cloth gear to leather, or mail just because it was leather or mail?

[Achaman]

Stop stealing other Armor Classes armor..

Amen

[Xuany]

Whatever amount of stats you would gain wearing leather or cloth wouldn't be comparable to the stats off of Mail gear (same ilvl) + the Mail Specialization. They also made the Armor Specialization for people to get away from wearing other types of Armor. Besides Mail Resto/Ele gear is scaled around your class and your class only. Same thing with Leather Agility, It's scaled around Rogues and Druids, not Warriors or Paladins.

[Jonisawsom]

Umm, sorry, i also stated about the stats... The cloth gear has a lot more intel/spirit whilst the mail one has more mastery/haste. however intel/spirit are better for reforging as it is a percentage of the amount, so sacrificing the difference in spirit between mail and cloth will get you more than the difference in haste/mastery.
I just mentioned the "look" aspect of it as an extra, believe me, if you like your char you will play better with it.

Which stats are you going to prefer? You want to take the cloth because it has more Spirit so that you can reforge it? I assume you are going to reforge it into Mastery/Haste/Crit. You would wind up with more of those stats just taking the Mail gear in the first place. Are you also sure you won't actually need all that spirit?

Mail:
1381 Int
840 Spirit
380 Mastery
469 Crit
192 Haste

Cloth:
1381 Int
1040 Spirit
260 Mastery
309 Haste
292 Crit

They have the same amount of Int (not including sockets and bonus), and you can't reforge it anyway. It's beyond me why you would even WANT to reforge Int to something else anyway.

If you did reforge the Spirit off of each piece of gear you still wind up with less overall Spirit by taking the Mail gear and more of the other stats.

[Deleted]

Locking thread (for all the reasons said about)
Its common sence really.