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  1. #381
    Fluffy Kitten Cambria's Avatar
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    What raid buffs do you have? If you have at least 5% I wouldn't drop any haste since you are right at the LB cap. Mastery will be better than crit, but the less you use RJ, the more important haste is between break points. I would probably leave your gear as is and replace tear as quick as you can. You only get the spi from crits, and that doesn't happen every icd. Should help your regen a bit.

  2. #382
    I actually hunted this thread down after wiping as a tank in Heroic VP last night because our resto druid couldn't cleanse the static cling.

    Please, please, please put Nature's Cure in as a required talent. It is far too useful, especially in heroics. Being able to cleanse static cling on the last boss in heroic VP or the fear on the second boss in heroic BRC are the top 2 that spring to my mind where the healer can help prevent the group from wiping if another group member's timing is off or the group makeup isn't ideal.

    My bet is that people who wouldn't want Nature's Cure are going to know the specs well enough to make that choice on their own in spite of whatever you post, but many newer wow players will cookie-cutter copy whatever you post and not realize they have hamstrung themselves until too late.
    Last edited by Luneko; 2011-02-10 at 06:00 PM. Reason: grammar boo-boos

  3. #383
    Fluffy Kitten Cambria's Avatar
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    If your druid can't cleanse, you should be jumping. If a beam tank gets feared, someone not tanking should jump into his spot. This guide is not really ment for 5 mans. I can't base my guide around people that just want to copy paste a spec since that's not how druids work. If they read the guide and see no one else can cleanse, they will know to take it, as it says.

    The guide is meant mainly for raiders, I'm not holding peoples hand if they don't actually want to read it and just copy paste =]

  4. #384
    If I'm understanding the notes right, if you take malfurion's gift your healing spells continue to give cc procs. I feel from reading the talent and ooc TT that I might be wrong about that, if ooc only procs from lifebloom I'm not sure I'd consider it a required talent. Does anyone know the specifics of that?

    Most of the time when healing I'm just casting rejuv and WG, though last raid I've tried to use nourish a bit more. I was considering this build http://wowtal.com/#k=gBkFJGbcn.aei.druid.

  5. #385
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    With that talent Lb gives you cc procs and LB only. Without it no healing spells give us cc procs. It's still being tested if it's worth taking anymore but as soon as I see the numbers I'll post them.

  6. #386

  7. #387
    assuming 12 LB ticks in 10 seconds

    4% chance per tick for an OoC proc

    1 tick every ~0.833 seconds

    ~72 ticks per minute

    4% of 72 ticks = 2.89 OoC procs per minute

    5086 mana for a HT

    5086 mana x 2.89 = 14,706 mana saved/minute = ~735 MP5 if you use HT every OoC proc


    5935 mana for RG

    5935 mana x 2.89 = 17152 mana saved/minute = ~875 MP5 if you use RG every OoC proc

    700-800 MP5 from 2 talent points looks pretty good to me.
    *Mana values are assuming 3/3 MG
    ---------------------

    if you can reach the 13th LB tick, you will see even more benefit from the talent.

    793 MP5 for HT

    925 MP5 for RG
    Last edited by Cerelli; 2011-02-10 at 11:12 PM.

  8. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerelli View Post
    Awesome theorycraftingness
    Thank you <3

  9. #389
    I enjoy having OOC proc right as I'm getting ready to Swiftmend. D:

    Outside of that, I absolutely love OOC.

  10. #390
    With the patch are you still recommending Natures Bounty?

    With the OoC/CC nerf, i am finding i am using regrowth a lot lot less, which means less benefit from the 60% crit chance. Still nice but not as useful per talent point as it was.

    1.5sec nourishs is nice, but considering how weak the spell is (average heal seems around 6k), i am only really using it as a light spam spell on the tank. However if the tank only needs light healing, a 1.5 or 2.5 sec cast doesn't really matter.

  11. #391
    6k sounds quite small, you ideally want to nourish someone already hotted. I did a brief testing yesterday with raidbuffs and i was getting some nice 13.5/14.5k crits with my gear (5 epics, rest 346 except a 272 green trinket... offspec ftw).
    "Seeping crest of turbidity, arrogant vessel of lunacy.
    Boil forth and deny, grow numb and flicker, disrupting sleep.
    Crawling queen of iron, eternally self-destructing doll of mud.
    Unite, repulse. Fill with soil and know your own powerlessness."


    Primera - Elemental Shaman - <Vedo La Gente Morta> - Pozzo dell'Eternità IT

  12. #392
    Quote Originally Posted by Shornaal View Post
    6k sounds quite small, you ideally want to nourish someone already hotted. I did a brief testing yesterday with raidbuffs and i was getting some nice 13.5/14.5k crits with my gear (5 epics, rest 346 except a 272 green trinket... offspec ftw).
    I have a fair bit better gear (think i am around 3 blues, 1 ring, helm, bracers might be 1 more but can't remember) and yeah the WoL reports are showing around that on average. If you look at the top output performers they are also getting around the same on average. Unless ofc i am misreading the reports, don't tend to watch numbers during raid.

    Even at 1.5sec cast time, i would prefer to just let rejuv tick and move on, of if things are bad, regrowth/HT.
    Last edited by stevos; 2011-02-11 at 10:25 AM.

  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by Myrrar View Post
    Yeah, for 25s with the Wg changes and RJ changes our hps should go up a bit, bit moonglow will probably become mandatory.
    I don't think so. A lot of the recent mana problems are from the old attitude of "nourish is free." Before, it took so damn long to cast that you had pretty much regenerated the mana cost during the cast. Now, however, it's easy to rifle off 15 nourishes and blow a huge chunk of your mana pool.

    Nourish still doesn't heal for shit, and should still (imo) only be used as a reaction to damage that NEEDS to be healed immediately. If you follow the old pattern of smart rejuvenation and WG on cooldown, rolling lifebloom and spending clearcasting procs on cast healing people, your mana will still last. Rejuvenation doesn't last very long, trying to keep 3 up so that you can spam nourish (which also blows mana quickly) runs you dry very quickly. Think of speed nourishes as more of a cooldown, it's a give and take. Can you spam them to potentially save a life or two? Probably, but it's going to cost you, as every quick heal does in Cataclysm.

    I find myself still not using nourish at all, really. No fight requires that kind of reaction unless people make mistakes. Even Chimaeron is better suited by regrowth spamming.
    Win and live. Lose and die.
    Rule of life. No change rule.
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  14. #394
    Fluffy Kitten Cambria's Avatar
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    It's not nourish, rj, or wg that are the problem mana wise. It's mana tide. The mana tide nurf makes spi proc trinkets pretty terrible and takes away more than a full extra bar and 1/2+ of mana depending on the fight. That's a huge hit to the mana we used to have. But, it's the same for all healing classes since we all depended on it so much.

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by Myrrar View Post
    It's not nourish, rj, or wg that are the problem mana wise. It's mana tide. The mana tide nurf makes spi proc trinkets pretty terrible and takes away more than a full extra bar and 1/2+ of mana depending on the fight. That's a huge hit to the mana we used to have. But, it's the same for all healing classes since we all depended on it so much.
    I already don't use spirit trinkets.
    Win and live. Lose and die.
    Rule of life. No change rule.
    Running worse than losing.
    Random casual stuff now


  16. #396
    It's unlikely your mana usage now will be exactly the same as it was before the patch. We have an increased ability to put out more hps now than we did before the patch (with the CD of WG being lower and with the buffs to Mastery), and with the mana cost of rejuv having gone up *slightly* it won't be as "free to cast" as it was pre-4.0.6. Neither of these changes on their own will guarantee we'll have mana problems, but if we try to take full advantage of these changes we can quickly burn through our mana.

    You make a great point though, Lysah, that smart use of wild growth and rejuv is important. Healers should refrain from spamming for the sake of topping the healing meters and should pay attention to whether or not those heals they're casting are worth the mana being spent on them.

  17. #397
    I'm not sure what all this bashing on nourish is about. I think the new NB is awesome. I only heal in 10 mans and I am geared heavily towards mastery giving me a 23% increase on healing. I am mainly assigned to tank healing and this change allows me to throw out some strong raid healing and then catch back up on the tank quickly. My nourishes are hitting for 10k and at a 1.5 sec cast time the hps is not that far behind HT but at a far cheaper mana cost. 10k is also about what my RG hits for. I guess I am looking at it from a mana conserving perspective. Yeah it does give any more potential throughput but it allows MT healers to assist on raid healing without having to use expensive HT to catch back up on the tank. On most fights I will already have rejuv on the MT and OT so only really need one more rejuv on the raid. I also find efflorescence to be strong as well but maybe because melee in my raid take time to move into the ring, and ranged tries to stay stacked during appropriate times.

    Perhaps I just don't have the experience from any harder stuff because I have only done 10 man normal modes but thats my two cents.

  18. #398
    The problem is, nourish isn't half as efficient as you think it is.
    Win and live. Lose and die.
    Rule of life. No change rule.
    Running worse than losing.
    Random casual stuff now


  19. #399
    If you are getting 6k AvERAGE nourishes

    try LEARNING YOUR CLASS!!!!!! (and not raiding in ilvl 300 gear)

    heal people that have a HoT on them. Hots such as rejuv/WG should always be on the raid in some manner. In some fights you can have a hot on someone 24/7(yay auto refresh regrowth on chimaeron).

    If you ARE casting a nourish/HT, and there is NOT a hot on your nourish/HT target then you are doing something WRONG.

  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    The problem is, nourish isn't half as efficient as you think it is.
    20% gain in hpm is pretty damn good.

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