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  1. #61
    So warlocks got something like that and we got Stampeding Roar & Mushrooms.........no justice! :P

  2. #62
    Fluffy Kitten Cambria's Avatar
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    I'm not going to separate quote everyone but try and cover everything I saw:
    SM is a very strong heal. It has a 15 seconds Cd or less depending if you crit on Nourish/HT or not. It heals for at least 15k for me non-crit instantly. It procs efflor, which though isn't amazing, especially in heroics is still great on AoE fights.(Karsh in HBRC comes to mind)
    It's the same mana as nourish. SM should be used every CD.

    If you have LB up at all times CC should be procing all the time. Unless you NEED HT on the tank, there is no point not using RG. I haven't seen a top druid skip NB yet. The crit + LS is just too useful besides the fact the nourish/ht crit + SM is also very good.

    I have no need for Moonglow. There are fights I have more mana problems on, but I still haven't seen a huge difference from when I had it besides getting to use those 6 points elsewhere and them buffing effective healing. Long fights innervate early. Tree is really a great mana CD. Pop it and roll LBs on everyone and I can keep everyone up on the hardest fights with that and instant RG on the insane amount of CC procs.

    As said in the guide, if you are having insane mana problems that you HAVE to take MG, take it. But if you can get by without it, you should.

  3. #63
    Moonglow would definitely be the first place I looked to for efflorescence, too. How much do you want 6% "more mana" as opposed to a 20% increase to a HoT people will run away from.
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  4. #64
    Fluffy Kitten Cambria's Avatar
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    People never run away from my efflor, I make sure to tell them to stand in it or I'm not wasting my mana on them. It doesn't do a ton, but it does enough most fights that I wont drop it.

  5. #65
    You must get better groups than me =p
    I'm also afraid it won't have much use in raids, but I guess I'll see.
    Win and live. Lose and die.
    Rule of life. No change rule.
    Running worse than losing.
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  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Myrrar View Post
    I have no need for Moonglow. There are fights I have more mana problems on, but I still haven't seen a huge difference from when I had it besides getting to use those 6 points elsewhere and them buffing effective healing. Long fights innervate early. Tree is really a great mana CD. Pop it and roll LBs on everyone and I can keep everyone up on the hardest fights with that and instant RG on the insane amount of CC procs.
    Moonglow is something you will want to spec into when you are just starting out heroics and are having a hard time being efficient. When your gear improves though you can definitely drop it.

    efflorescence is a great through-put talent. It effectively adds 30%+ to each of your swiftmends. It isn't amazing on movement fights but it's still better than your other through-put options. Currently my efflorescence ticks for 1k a second which is better than wild growth if people can stay in it. Do we know if it is affected by mastery because it shows up as pet healing for me on recount.

  7. #67
    Have the breakpoints for extra ticks actually been tested in-game? I ask because I have 7.83% haste with the supposed rejuv 5 tick breakpoint being 7.15% and I'm not seeing a fifth tick.

    edit: nevermind the stupid question, I just realized you must be assuming there is a 5% haste buff present.
    Last edited by SbEguy; 2010-12-18 at 05:39 AM.

  8. #68
    Bit unrealistic to base all numbers on the assumption that every known buff in a raid is present. 10 man's dont get every class and heroics certainly won't either.

  9. #69
    Ty for the guide

  10. #70
    Fluffy Kitten Cambria's Avatar
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    If you aren't basing your raid around buffs, especially one that important to every caster class, the difference between 4 or 5 ticks probably isn't on your mind. Pretty much every guide for any caster assumes you have the 5%, even for 10s.

    1 buff brought by any shaman, a moonkin, or a shadow priest isn't really that unrealistic nor is it assuming you have 'every known buff'.

  11. #71

    Intellect better than spirit for regenning mana?

    Hey guys

    Ive just done a basic bit of math and im beginning to think that intellect is better for regen than intellect because of revitalize and replen etc
    I have been gemming for intellect and cant see much difference just wondering if i am actually right in thinking this.
    When i worked it out it turned out that int gives us about a third more combat regen.

  12. #72
    85 haste raitings
    Rejuvenation:
    4 ticks Baseline
    5 ticks 7.15% (917 Haste rating)
    This doesn't seem right... also EJ says 915.

    In order to get that one extra tick, you should need 25% haste. 3s between ticks / 1.25 = 2.4s between ticks * 5 = 12s

    Now, you get 5% spell haste from raid buffs so you only need 1.25 / 1.05 = 19% haste. Even if you were assuming that NG was used, that would be 1.19 / 1.15 = 3.5% haste.

    How is 7.15% being calculated?
    Last edited by Lyren; 2010-12-20 at 03:15 AM.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by SbEguy View Post
    Have the breakpoints for extra ticks actually been tested in-game? I ask because I have 7.83% haste with the supposed rejuv 5 tick breakpoint being 7.15% and I'm not seeing a fifth tick.

    edit: nevermind the stupid question, I just realized you must be assuming there is a 5% haste buff present.
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...oints-and-more...

    full on breakdown of haste breapoints with and without the haste buffs

    explains why numbers are rounded, and how i arrived at those numbers

    Original chart was posted on the EJ forums, actuall numbers were done through experimentation and math

    Ive tested them



    example to answer your question so you dont have to look for it is taken from my thread

    All of these numbers are rounded up twice to actually exceed the break point. Once from 2 decimal places, and once again with 1 integer(1014.3 to 1015 to hit a breakpoint and 1016 to exceed it and recieve the extra tick)
    If you are sitting directly ON a haste breakpoint, you will NOT get your extra tick, is why you EXCEED that breakpoint.


    There has been much discussion, and math, and arguements over these numbers. i also posted this thread on the wow forums and the final result is what you see after days of namecalling
    Last edited by Iamtheway; 2010-12-20 at 06:56 AM.

  14. #74
    LS is basicly a 30% increase to Regrowth's healing but with an uptime depending on your crit. If you have 15% crit, Regrowth will heal for 100% 85% of the time and 150*1.3=195% 15% of the time. The avarage heal on the long run is 100*0.85+195*0.15=114.25%
    If you take NB the numbers are 100% 25% of the time and 195% 75% of the time, so 100*0.25+195*0.75=171.25%
    Since you already had 15% crit we have to compare this 171.25% to the 114.25% calculated from your base crit. 171.25/114.25=1.498 so with 15% crit NB is a 49.8% increase to Regrowth on the long run.
    Efflor is 30% increase to SM with 1 person standing in it, 60% with 2, and so on up to 180%.
    So it's not crystal clear wether Efflor or NB is the better.

    I will drop Moonglow and get NB when I won't have mana problems. Right now there are some fights where I almost go oom even if I Innervate early and pop ToL to spam LB and free RGs. I'm thinking of dropping Swift Rejuv and put 1 point in NB to see if it makes a difference.

    On the topic of casting RG or HT on OoC procs: I use HT because I have the HT glyph so each HT lowers the CD of NS by 10s which is very useful. I only use RG during ToL or when I want the 15% haste buff. This works for me very well.

    edit: corrected the calculation becuse LS is 30% of the crit heal not the base heal so a crit Regrowth with LS is 195% of the normal heal, not 180%
    Last edited by Bjursta; 2010-12-20 at 09:23 AM.

  15. #75
    Not enough points for me to take Nature's Grace, I like Nature's Ward too much and having Furor is useful too for more mana. Plus I don't like 3 points being spent on that talent for one mediocre spell.

    The talent point in Swift Rejuv is an interesting issue......as we can no longer spam Rejuv like before, what do we care about half a second less on the GCD? It's only one point, but hey you always want that extra 1/2 points somewhere.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by farmergiles View Post
    Not enough points for me to take Nature's Grace, I like Nature's Ward too much and having Furor is useful too for more mana. Plus I don't like 3 points being spent on that talent for one mediocre spell.

    The talent point in Swift Rejuv is an interesting issue......as we can no longer spam Rejuv like before, what do we care about half a second less on the GCD? It's only one point, but hey you always want that extra 1/2 points somewhere.
    Nature's Ward is cool but I don't like being under 50% HP for a free Rejuv. If I take that much damage then something's gone wrong or everyone else is taking damage so I should use AoE heals anyway. It can be a lifesaver but it's not worth 2 points for PVE in my opinion.

  17. #77
    i was thinking about having my alt with a 7/3/31. skipping naturalist and emp touch.
    is it not possible to heal in a manner that doesnt use nourish or HT? ive been healing normals pretty easily by letting LB duration end (and if the tanks hp requires it pop a RJ just before to take advantage of mastery) and using SM on cd and regrowthing every clearcasting. would this not be viable in raid enviroments?

  18. #78
    It is in it's testing phase, but it's also because my spec has to be tweaked for PVE and PVP use. Nature's Grave sucks up too many points to make it viable in my spec.

    @ Damo

    I'd be hesitant on not using HT and Nourish at all, even if you're not specced, I would say casting Nourish to stop LB expiring is a must, remember it's benefit from Malfurion's Gift.

    However I'd be interested to see if that idea could work coz you use alternative glpyhs like the Regrowth one if you're not using HT much. Would make a nice change, but viable?........I wouldn't know in raid environments, but I'm skeptical to it's viability in heroics.
    Last edited by farmergiles; 2010-12-20 at 01:10 PM.

  19. #79
    Fluffy Kitten Cambria's Avatar
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    Nat Ward is kind of a wasted point. Though it gives you a place to SM if necessary and saves you one gcd, there are just too many other better talents to take. Using a pvp/pve spec is fine for heroics and regs, but not really acceptable in raids.

    You wont be able to run heroics without using Nourish. You just wont. Eventually when we are extremely over geared, it's a possibility, but Nourish is your filler spell so you need it. RG will never take nourishes place unless you have insane gear because of the mana difference alone.

    The jump from normals to heroics is huge. The jump from heroics to raids isn't as big, but it gives you a lot more obstacles. 25 raids, you wont be using nourish much, but you wont want to skip the talents for it for when you do need it.

  20. #80
    That doesn't really answer my question on haste.

    Math and the game shows that 7% haste gets you about 2.8s between ticks. Math again suggests that 5 ticks in 12 seconds should need 2.4s between ticks. Thus, where is the math showing how 1.0715 * 1.05 = enough to get 2.4s? Where is the math to calculate how blizz calculates the soft caps to put another tick in?

    I'm not questioning whether 7% actually works or not, I just want to know the math, the why, because that is counter to everything I expected. Are hots/dots different in that haste has double effect before the first tick occurs? That would be sufficient to explain, if such is the case, which I don't believe is.

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