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  1. #1501
    Quote Originally Posted by Turvakapsu View Post
    If the whole lifebloom heal is going to be effective and you haven't got anything particularly important to do for the next 3 GCDs, you should let the lifebloom expire. If not, refresh it with a nourish if it's not going to overheal or with a cast lifebloom if it would.

    You can reach the haste breakpoint easily with 463 heroic items.

    There's a lot of differences between dungeons and raids. Mainly the fact that you don't need to emergency heal or heal inefficiently so much. If you're going to do 25 man then sure, practice on the RF. 10mans are however a bit different to the 25mans.

    Overhealing is always bad, but inevitable. Overhealing is basically just wasted mana.

    And as for keeping as many hots up as possible, depends. You shouldn't blanket rejuv, but try to keep WG on cooldown and use rejuv when it's going to be effective. Just use your abilities wisely. Heal when necessary, trying to keep yourself down to as little as possible "everything else that WG and SM" is always going to be a good start for healing properly, but don't be afraid to use other spells. Overhealing and emergencyhealing are the 2 things you should avoid the most.
    What does emergeny healing mean then? Panic spam healing touch?
    Last edited by Octavia; 2012-10-22 at 09:29 AM. Reason: new page qoute

  2. #1502
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    Quote Originally Posted by Octavia View Post
    What does emergeny healing mean then? Panic spam healing touch?
    Trying/having to try to save a tank (or another person) with non-NS regrowths/healing touches.

  3. #1503
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post
    When it comes to actual healing, we're nowhere near where we need to be. There are better classes to play if you are hardcore enough to make the change.
    Honestly, you must play with some bad Druids... I have yet to see a fight that we are not in the top two. Shaman and monks also seem to swap for the top spots too, but we are always right there.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-22 at 03:02 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Torty View Post
    If you are stealing hps from other healers, drop a healer. If one class is doing worse on an encounter, replace him with other class that does better. Quite simple really. I never felt like stealing someone's hps, because we already were quite close to dying from damage.

    More about meter padding is in Hamlet's posts, he is doing that in LFR (hope he is not actually struggling with healing that). I'm talking only about progression raiding.
    Obviously this depends on comp and the fight. And yes I understood what the context was, lol. Anyway, I maintain that focusing on increasing healing done by WG is not always a strong qualitative enhancement, while still potentially being quantitatively strong. And even then it is not always that strong of a boost, if any, over ToL, which is more flexible. But to each their own.
    Last edited by Sprucelee; 2012-10-22 at 03:04 PM.
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  4. #1504
    My comments aren't based on competition, rather responding to the encounter. There are many fights where multiple people take their full health or more in damage over a short time, then very soon after are going through it again, or there is other damage that could potentially kill a low health person. Look at Elegon's orb phases, each time they deal around 50-75% of every player's health and that happens 4 times in a row with a very brief rest between them. Immediately after is the group up/add kill where damage is high, and if you are at the end, then you have the burn phase immediately following. Shamans and monks, even paladins, can use normal heals to get through high damage where we have to use a cooldown because our normal group healing is just too slow. Both shamans and monks are better tank healers and raid healers. Monk is superior to druid in all ways but one, control. Druids control who has what on them at any given time. Monks rely on smart heals to distribute their hot and position to apply group healing for several of their spells. Having the raid adapt to those control limitations is usually very easy making Monk's significantly higher output a certain win over druids. Shamans have the same control we do, higher output, more cooldowns, better cooldowns. Their only problem so far is that mana seems to be tighter for them than druids (based on my 10 man grouping with a shaman).

    As I've said all along, it's about the toolbox, not sniping heals for meters, etc.

  5. #1505
    To add to the guide:

    Quote Originally Posted by Myrrar View Post
    [Jade Courtesan Figurine]
    ilvl: 476/489/502
    Avg Spi: ?/?/705
    Avg Int: 956/1079/1218
    MP5: ?/?/395.08
    Location: tbd
    click to use, 15 sec. active time, 60 sec. CD
    This item only exists in its normal version (489). It drops from trash in Mogu'shan Vaults normal or heroic.

  6. #1506
    Spruce what do you mean we are in top 2 when you then say "Shaman and monks also seem to swap for the top spots too, but we are always right there." So basically we are behind 2 classes and fights with hpalas and priests to be on top of them. Is that good for you ? I am sorry when i had shamans behind me in almost every fight until nerfs came in ds and now i see them sit comfortably in top while i have to keep adjusting my stats trying to gear up and learn the fights as good as i can so i can use my abilities to the full then i am sorry i agree with mavla we are away from these 2 classes. I played with same players for months so i know how good they are it is obvious that after the last patch before mop shamans have improve vastly. While other healer classes seem more balance (havent seen a disc priest yet) shamans and monk are easily ahead of us.

    P.s. Talking 25man raiding.

  7. #1507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torty View Post
    -snip-
    If you can't accept that people who played druids for 7+ years in some of the best guilds in the world(and make your progression look like a joke btw) are now pure theorycrafting and aren't retarded I don't know what to tell you. This convo is a waste of time.

    WoW isn't hard, it never has been. You can't map out every variable for a fight because every single guild does things differently. This is the difference between top 5 and the rest of the world. You can map out number wise, if everyone plays perfectly, what spells are going to do. You can also map out 1000 other things.

    Trying to play off that you know better based on your own experience yet theorycrafters are dumb because they don't have your experience is laughable. Are your other healers shit? Are you clearly fucking up somewhere else?(70% uptime on LB?) Have you tried to play the other way and did that as accurately as this way? Is your raid taking more dmg than they should be? Are they using a poor strat? Is your MT less geared than someone elses? Are you less/more geared than other druids? How is everyone setting their druids up? What other healers are every guild taking? What other classes are every guild taking?

    As you should know if you're been raiding top tier for more than a few months, every single little thing matters, which is why class rotating and min/maxing is so important. This is also why theorycrafting is so strong. The base information you find on spreadsheets are factual tweaked for each fight by people who clearly smart enough, and well known enough to talk to lots of people from lots of guilds and get an average of how fights play out. You then take those numbers and tweak them to the 1000 variables that make up your guild encounter. You don't say 'spell A is OP for me because how I do things'. You say 'you should look at spell A again, it's working for me on this fight because we _____'.

    Something that you'll have to learn on our forums is:
    1. No one gives a shit what guilds you're in or how good you are. They want to know what's best for them, not for you. We've also had druids in top 10 guilds come in and be completely wrong about things(that druid who said she never gets the haste cap...), so it doesn't matter. I've given advice from what my guild did and no one else was on that progression point. It's just not the aim of the majority of people wanting knowledge. You'd be surprised how many druid posters on our forums are equally and better progressed than you are also.
    2. Any info I and probably anyone else give are not for hardcore progression. No one cares that on fight A we have to do all these things they would never have to do in their raid. They want to know what's best for them, not us.

    Anyway, pointless discussion is pointless. If you want to argue if theorycrafting is shit or experiencing a fight is better than numbers(we'd totally all know our haste caps from just doing HMs!) PM me.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-22 at 02:25 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Thalur View Post
    To add to the guide:



    This item only exists in its normal version (489). It drops from trash in Mogu'shan Vaults normal or heroic.
    Last time I looked WoWhead only had the info for one(probably not enough data yet since it was random? I guess) There are three though: http://www.wowhead.com/search?q=%5BJ...Figurine%5D%09

    Not sure how a random drop would work in LFR though.

  8. #1508
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post
    . There are many fights where multiple people take their full health or more in damage over a short time, then very soon after are going through it again, or there is other damage that could potentially kill a low health person. Look at Elegon's orb phases, each time they deal around 50-75% of every player's health and that happens 4 times in a row with a very brief rest between them. Immediately after is the group up/add kill where damage is high, and if you are at the end, then you have the burn phase immediately following. Shamans and monks, even paladins, can use normal heals to get through high damage where we have to use a cooldown because our normal group healing is just too slow.
    After being asked to respec resto from balance I ran into this very problem on Elegon. The healing I was dishing out, responsible as I was for my own side's pylon DPS group, got me into problems over and over again because I just couldn't keep folks up! Or if I could last through 5 sets of adds, there would be absolutely 0 mana left over for the next phase.

    Our paladin was keeping his side up with ease, and even took care of an extra member from my group when I said my mana just couldn't handle it. Even going ToL or trying to prop people up with LB's beforehand would help either for saving mana or keeping health up, since the HoTs just weren't strong enough and it took way too long to apply them.

    How do people deal with this kind of situation, especially when you're healing melee that are running all over the place?

  9. #1509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sissadora View Post
    After being asked to respec resto from balance I ran into this very problem on Elegon. The healing I was dishing out, responsible as I was for my own side's pylon DPS group, got me into problems over and over again because I just couldn't keep folks up! Or if I could last through 5 sets of adds, there would be absolutely 0 mana left over for the next phase.

    Our paladin was keeping his side up with ease, and even took care of an extra member from my group when I said my mana just couldn't handle it. Even going ToL or trying to prop people up with LB's beforehand would help either for saving mana or keeping health up, since the HoTs just weren't strong enough and it took way too long to apply them.

    How do people deal with this kind of situation, especially when you're healing melee that are running all over the place?
    First thing I'd do is check that it's not a simple case of melee not dropping their stacks - I added the Overcharged debuff to my frames so I could check people were. If they are then look at what your strategy is:

    Are you trying to keep them at 100%? If so you'll OOM very quickly, the damage is "predictable" and you can see the orbs moving so you actually have more time to get their health back up to a level where they will survive than it at first appears. It's also worth stressing to melee (or indeed anyone) that Blizzard pretty much gave everyone a personal dmg mitigation or healing CD and that they can/should help, and Ironbark is not just for tanks...

    Also what's your entry into Phase 2 like? If the raid is doing things right you should be going in with a decent level of mana, if they're not and you're having to heal everyone back up from a buffed Annihalation then again you're going to have trouble.

    In the pillar phase are you getting a rest? Again if the execution is good/right this should be almost a complete regen phase and the opportunity to take a Potion of Focus etc should be available to you. The phase is also long enough with the potential dmg only ramping later on that even bringing people back up from relative low health in Phase 2 should still give you regen opportunity.

    All that's based on 10M normal-so if you're in HM I apologise...
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  10. #1510
    Quote Originally Posted by v6Max View Post

    .........

    In the pillar phase are you getting a rest? Again if the execution is good/right this should be almost a complete regen phase and the opportunity to take a Potion of Focus etc should be available to you. The phase is also long enough with the potential dmg only ramping later on that even bringing people back up from relative low health in Phase 2 should still give you regen opportunity.
    Thanks for your quick and thoughtful reply! It's indeed 10M normals we're just about done with and soon moving onto heroics (my guild killed Elegon and WotE while I wasn't there, sigh).

    This might have indeed been a strong case of melee not dropping their stacks in addition to not caring for mitigation cooldowns. At least two of the 5 that I was supposed to take care of were the two notorious melee who also had a habit of taking extra damage everywhere else (overaggroing on trash, in the beginning of bossfights, et cetera). I'll need to add Overcharged to my unit frames to keep an eye on that next time around.

    Phase 2 beginning was fine if I was being very careful with my mana during the first phase. There were excellent P1s (nobody taking extra/unnecessary damage) or totally failed P1s (people being blown to smithereens with the buffed Annihilation because the tank wasn't paying attention). Makes you worried for our heroic progress, huh?

    But in 70% of the cases I had to blow my mana potion cooldown before the pillar phase, so everything was on cooldown then and regenerating meant standing around and praying nobody was going to stand in lightning blobs or get hit by adds.

    Just for reference I'll post my armory in case you're interested: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...antarra/simple (don't mind the ungemmed shoulders or helmet, I got those two pieces AFTER our tries on Elegon and haven't gotten around to gemming them yet).

    We had a long discussion with the other healer (paladin) afterwards who saw I was struggling with mana, so he suggested I'd heal the ranged group next time, use some Shrooms (hah) and Efflorescence because that'd work a lot better for me. I think that would already be a massive improvement instead of draining my mana with Rejuvs and such.

    I was actually wondering, what do other druid healers do in the Spark phase when your healing targets are all over the place without going MASSIVELY out of mana?

  11. #1511
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sissadora View Post
    But in 70% of the cases I had to blow my mana potion cooldown before the pillar phase, so everything was on cooldown then and regenerating meant standing around and praying nobody was going to stand in lightning blobs or get hit by adds.

    Just for reference I'll post my armory in case you're interested: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...antarra/simple (don't mind the ungemmed shoulders or helmet, I got those two pieces AFTER our tries on Elegon and haven't gotten around to gemming them yet).

    I was actually wondering, what do other druid healers do in the Spark phase when your healing targets are all over the place without going MASSIVELY out of mana?
    I was using rejuv, nourish (yes really), when melee were coming out I was swiftmending and getting them to stand in Effloresence until the next set of orbs spawned. Consuming any OOC on regrowth etc. I had 2 melee plate, 1 melee leather and 1 ranged on my side. I was normally getting into the Pillar Phase with over 50% of my mana left.

    I use Innervate early (say around 80% mana) and have the Vial of Ichorous Blood trinket as well, combat regen is around 10k at the moment. On our kill it looks like I got 2 innervates in, 3 uses of the Vial trinket - I only used NV and ToL in the final phase.

    Your armory is showing you in balance spec at the moment.
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  12. #1512
    Quote Originally Posted by Myrrar View Post
    Last time I looked WoWhead only had the info for one(probably not enough data yet since it was random? I guess) There are three though: http://www.wowhead.com/search?q=%5BJ...Figurine%5D%09

    Not sure how a random drop would work in LFR though.
    The different versions do exist in the game files (and on wowhead), but they do not drop. There are no trash drops in LFR, and trash on heroic mode does drop normal mode items. (Otherwise you could just switch to heroic for the trash.)
    It has been working like this throughout Cata as well.

  13. #1513
    Quote Originally Posted by v6Max View Post
    I was using rejuv, nourish (yes really), when melee were coming out I was swiftmending and getting them to stand in Effloresence until the next set of orbs spawned.
    I also see some use in spamming nourish as I did that a lot at Will of the Emperor and it was quite doable. I don't know if I can abuse our triggerhappy to melee to stand in Eff but I will definitely try. Thanks for the tips!

    Quote Originally Posted by v6Max View Post
    Your armory is showing you in balance spec at the moment.
    Yes, I use balance spec while doing dailies but this is the exact same gear I wear for both specs (with same gems and reforges).

  14. #1514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalur View Post
    The different versions do exist in the game files (and on wowhead), but they do not drop. There are no trash drops in LFR, and trash on heroic mode does drop normal mode items. (Otherwise you could just switch to heroic for the trash.)
    It has been working like this throughout Cata as well.
    Ohhh, I see. I thought you were asking if I had found the other versions. Yeah, I'll just remove the other ones since they're confirmed to not drop.

  15. #1515
    Quote Originally Posted by Myrrar View Post
    <..>
    I will keep this short.
    • This is my second account druid I used mainly for pvping untill late wotlk (first one is locked due to region restrictions), actually their raiding experience looks like a joke compared to mine, which is really not the point of this thread, but whatever.
    • I've never posted anything about my progression, it was you bringing up irrelevant shit into discussion of healing technics.
    • This tier doesn't exactly have 6 bosses. I don't know if you are still following raid scene, but yeah, Terrace and Heart of Fear are pretty much around the corner. Might take a look at them. There are also new bosses in those (sic!) and some of them even have aoe damage. I will add excel raiders to the same group as youtube raiders from now on.
    • Please, for the love of god, don't include me in your group by saying 'us'. I don't know you, I haven't seen your character, and judging by your ignorance on trash drops. spreadsheet theorycrafting for top guilds and many other shit, you didn't raid properly in last 4 tiers and your cutting edge progression raiding experience is pretty bad too.

    I will just ignore your posts from now on, given the fact that you resort to calling your discussion opponent retarded and an ability to generate useless walls of text in an attempt to avoid proper points of other's posts.
    use some Shrooms (hah)
    Nothing funny in it. Shrooms have much higher HPM than Rejuv, so if you use them on 6+ people and have limited amount of mana, it will give you higher end results (IN THEORY LOL). If you want to do as much healing as possible on any fight, you want to maximize usage of your most efficient spells (tranq -> tree -> sm -> wg [-> shrooms if appropriate]), while using all mana regen available and ending fight with 0 mana. Excessive mana regened by spirit is used on less efficient spells like Rejuv, Healing Touch and Regrowth.

    You are probably going oom, because your trinkets are kinda bad. None of them provides regen at all. Try farming Price of Progress and any other 463 trinket like Fruit Barrel or Vial, both will be better than your current ones. Also try speccing into HotW instead of NV. You can dps while there's no damage going out (like pylon phase multidotting is pretty strong, if you can't afford dpsing sparks) while regening at the same time. Synchronize cds with your mate paladin. Use AM, Tree, Tranq, Ironbark and HoSac as often as possible, those are great mana management tools. Personal cds from each raider is a given, I guess. Can't really say more without a log.
    Tortie - Night Elf Druid - The Maelstrom EU

  16. #1516
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    lol, you're kidding yourself. 1st reply
    I'm 7th resto druid in the world to kill Will of the Emperor heroic.
    Your attitude also shows you haven't been hardcore raiding nearly as long as you like to pretend you have. But, not the point and/or worth talking about.

    You keep ignorantly and arrogantly claiming whatever you want, the rest of the world doesn't care. As said, you don't even look at what others post you just blindly rage with a seriously misplaced superiority complex. The hypocrisy in almost all your insults give me a headache. You don't want a debate, you want to be right. And people like that aren't worth arguing with. The sky is blue, 'NO IT"S GREEN'. Shit, even when people say it's blue/green, 'NO IT"S GREEN".

    As I said, if you want to whine some more PM me. I really doubt everyone else wants to watch, or deal with, the teenage girl bitchmatch.

  17. #1517
    To the goon who is "world 7th" , thanks for your opinion, now be adult, move on if you don't agree.

    To our Super Moderator, thanks for the time you put into Resto Druids and beyond...

    Take what you will from this quote...

    Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit; Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.

  18. #1518
    To the goon who is "world 7th"
    It was a joke aimed at retarded reply 'all top druids say blablabla'. I don't care about my progression, others' progression and all non-related to this discussion bullshit Myrrar is constantly posting about. It was not me starting this, check conversation again.

    Anyway, no point bickering. If you think shrooms and sotf have no place in druid rotations, I won't continue arguing with people that resort to 'other people say' arguments. At least people in posts #1473, 1474, 1484 and 1491 made it somewhat constructive.
    Tortie - Night Elf Druid - The Maelstrom EU

  19. #1519
    Quote Originally Posted by Torty View Post
    Shrooms have much higher HPM than Rejuv, so if you use them on 6+ people and have limited amount of mana, it will give you higher end results (IN THEORY LOL). If you want to do as much healing as possible on any fight, you want to maximize usage of your most efficient spells (tranq -> tree -> sm -> wg [-> shrooms if appropriate]), while using all mana regen available and ending fight with 0 mana. Excessive mana regened by spirit is used on less efficient spells like Rejuv, Healing Touch and Regrowth.
    I was actually healing in LFR a lot with the shrooms, I noticed. It was even kind of fun using them, though I'd really love it if they healed more than they do now. Thanks for the rest of the tips, I need to get used to being this tree thing. (Healed as a holy priest since TBC, so I'm not used to having the panic buttons that I have now.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Torty View Post
    Try farming Price of Progress and any other 463 trinket like Fruit Barrel or Vial, both will be better than your current ones. Also try speccing into HotW instead of NV. You can dps while there's no damage going out (like pylon phase multidotting is pretty strong, if you can't afford dpsing sparks) while regening at the same time. Synchronize cds with your mate paladin. Use AM, Tree, Tranq, Ironbark and HoSac as often as possible, those are great mana management tools.
    Yes, trinkets are my first priority now, but since I hit 90 I haven't seen anything useful drop so I'm kind of praying I will get something before we start heroic progress tomorrow.

    HotW I didn't really consider until now since I'm quite healing-minded and to my old-fashioned self DPSing as a healer feels weird, but it should definitely be part of my tool repertoire for heroic modes.

    Edit: sorry, folks, for taking space with my "help me not embarrass my raid leader" sidetracking. I think I have the answers I need now, and if I don't, I'll just make a new thread for it. :3
    Last edited by Sissadora; 2012-10-24 at 07:05 AM.

  20. #1520
    i noticed the method druids were using shrooms on heroic will, thats the only time they seem useful.


    and also, for being "the 7th resto druid in the world to kill will hc" i'd expect better talents gems and knowledge really, you don't even hit the 3043 haste breakpoint and your gems are all over the place. ???
    Last edited by pulchritudinous; 2012-10-24 at 12:07 PM.

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