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  1. #1641
    How much haste is too much haste? This guide and many others have confused me "Here, Look at this deep mathematical algorithm chart to figure out your haste cap" Like...what percent?

    Right now I am sitting at 9.98% Haste OR 4.242 haste, For 10 man healing.

  2. #1642
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    Don't look at percents, it's misleading.

    If you get the 5% haste buff from your raid you either want 3043 or 6652. Nothing in between, less, or more. If you use Soul 5730 is the breakpoint you want to get. The 2nd isn't worth the stat loss yet.

    If you don't get 5% haste in your raid, whine to your raid leader because that's a huge buff you're missing. You want 5320, the second one isn't worth the stats.

  3. #1643
    Quote Originally Posted by Myrrar View Post
    Don't look at percents, it's misleading.

    If you get the 5% haste buff from your raid you either want 3043 or 6652. Nothing in between, less, or more. If you use Soul 5730 is the breakpoint you want to get. The 2nd isn't worth the stat loss yet.

    If you don't get 5% haste in your raid, whine to your raid leader because that's a huge buff you're missing. You want 5320, the second one isn't worth the stats.
    I don't use soul of the forest I use tree form, and we do have a hunter in our 10 man raid group that uses a sporebat for the 5% haste buff.

  4. #1644
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysara View Post
    I don't use soul of the forest I use tree form, and we do have a hunter in our 10 man raid group that uses a sporebat for the 5% haste buff.
    4242 is pretty far off from 6652. If you can get to 6652 without having to gem all pure haste or skip out on int food, you can try. If not or you'll just be killing your stats for it, drop down to 3043.(as close as you can).

  5. #1645
    Quote Originally Posted by Myrrar View Post
    4242 is pretty far off from 6652. If you can get to 6652 without having to gem all pure haste or skip out on int food, you can try. If not or you'll just be killing your stats for it, drop down to 3043.(as close as you can).
    Will do! Feel like a resto shaman with all this mastery now

  6. #1646
    Going up to 6652 will be a loss in healing regardless of your current haste. Go 3043 and toss everything else into mastery (and crit which is better than haste between breakpoints). Shave spirit off as you get comfortable and focus on throughput. Don't make the mistake of disregarding a piece of loot that drops that has no spirit on it, it's likely an upgrade.

  7. #1647
    Quote Originally Posted by Myrrar View Post
    If you use Soul 5730 is the breakpoint you want to get.
    Has anyone actually done the math on this? Just kinda wondering as I have been playing around with SoTF on certain fights.

  8. #1648
    Quote Originally Posted by Branch View Post
    Has anyone actually done the math on this? Just kinda wondering as I have been playing around with SoTF on certain fights.
    Yes, its in the first post.

  9. #1649
    Should I be keeping my 2nd haste cap or should I gem int and go mastery?

    Here's my armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ikong/advanced

  10. #1650
    Not sure what haste cap you are referring to as you have 4897 haste currently. The first haste cap is 3043 the second is 6652 including raid buff 5%. Once you pass 3043 haste, your excess should be reforged to mastery or if the piece has mastery already, crit/spirit. Also you have pvp gems.. not sure what your intentions are.

  11. #1651
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post
    Not sure what haste cap you are referring to as you have 4897 haste currently. The first haste cap is 3043 the second is 6652 including raid buff 5%. Once you pass 3043 haste, your excess should be reforged to mastery or if the piece has mastery already, crit/spirit. Also you have pvp gems.. not sure what your intentions are.
    Sorry in my crappy pvp gear

    Have a look now.

    Oh btw raiding 10m.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ikong/advanced

    I know in 25m 2nd haste cap is a definite yes but 10m I'm not sure about.

  12. #1652
    Actually math shows 3043 is the only beneficial breakpoint currently possible to attain (the next one is 13063). It is better to put the extra 3600 haste into mastery/crit (~4% vs ~6% output). This doesn't change whether you are in 10 or 25 man as it is a matter of spell scaling not target number (WG glyph, for example) or some other mechanic.

    If you have no other items to change to, you might not be able to go back down to 3043. You are missing some intellect due to gemming for so much haste. You might find better results by going back to 3043 haste and prioritizing mastery, but the difference in the grand scheme is pretty small. We're talking ~2% between secondary stats that make up only a small part of the healing output picture. Intellect and spellpower are far and away the stats you should be focusing on.

    If you are happy with your healing output, I would stick with what you have, just try to tweak it to prioritize intellect. Those pure haste gems make me frown

  13. #1653
    A little pimpage of my Amber Shaper heroic front page video, if you will. Druids ftw.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...ue-Posts-Comic

    Probably will be fixed, but 1 healing a heroic boss was fun while it lasted. First time of the night, the paladin tank lets an explosion go off and I'm scrambling to catch up. Fun, fun.

  14. #1654
    Hey Myrrar. The guide is great. There's one thing I thought should be appended to it: Banquet of the Steamer for spirit and Banquet of the Pot for Int. When I first saw those two banquets (and the other 4, for that matter) I had no idea what the differences between them were. I had to do a little research before I came to understand how they work. (I'm sure you already know this, but it might be worth adding a little note about it in the guide.)

    [Edit] I wanted to provide an alternate formatting, since the table I used here didn't fit with the guide. So here's the same info using the guide's formatting:

    All Banquets provide a minimum* of 250 to a primary stat (Int, Agi, Str) or 375 to Stam for a tank.
    However the Banquets may also provide additional benefits depending on the player's primary stat:


    Note:
    • The Pandaren Banquet is the only Banquet that provides a bonus for all primary stats. All other Banquets provide a bonus to (at most) one primary stat (as specified above).
    • Steamer is the only feast that provides Spirit. Eating any other feast will provide a healer with Int. Casters eating a Steamer will get 250 Int.
    • Eating any feast that does not provide your main stat (Pot for Int or Steamer for Spi) will give 250 points to your main stat or 375 Stam for a tank.
    • Feasts only provide one stat per user (you can't get Int and Stam at the same time). People are sometimes confused by this so I thought I'd make it clear.
    Last edited by Dendrek; 2012-12-20 at 09:03 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurax View Post
    Jesus Christ? I could not follow his radical left-wing path. No, even if I did believe in a personal god, I would not have the guts, the extreme altruism and radical anti-capitalism necessary to call myself a Christian.
    Quote Originally Posted by ngc2440 View Post
    Hyperbole police! We have been alerted to several reports of some suburbian white guys complaining about racism. Ok I am going to give you a warning. You have 60 days to put on your big boy britches and stop being a whiny kid. Seriously. Time to grow up.

  15. #1655
    nice little summary Dendrek - but if im not mistaken, the banquet's of the "way" (IE, pot, steamer, wok, etc) - only provide 250 of the given stat, unless you have raised cooking in that "way" to 600.

    IE banquet of the pot gives you 250 int, but if you have cooking Way of the Pot to 600, you get 275.

    I'm not sure that's entirely accurate but that's how i remember it working. (it's why i get only 250 from grill, wok, etc, but 275 from pot and steamer which i have 600 cooking in)

  16. #1656
    That's an interesting point. I'm pretty sure it's not true, but I have heard it before. Perhaps I can test it...

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-20 at 08:52 PM ----------

    Confirmed: You don't need to be maxed to get the benefit. I had a Resto Druid with 253 cooking eat a Steamer and get 275 Spirit.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-21 at 02:17 AM ----------

    One other thing I noticed: The Symbiosis section needs to be updated/corrected. [Edited to clean up formatting.]

    What you get from your target (only when you're Resto):

    Class Spell Usefulness
    Death Knight Icebound Fortitude A decent personal damage-reduction CD (Fortifying Brew is slightly better).
    Hunter Deterrence Short-duration survival CD (Fortifying Brew and Icebound Fortitude are better).
    Mage Ice Block Most powerful survival CD. Great for dropping threat, removing debuffs, and avoiding death.
    Monk Fortifying Brew The best of the mitigation-CDs available through Symbiosis.
    Paladin Cleanse Only dispels Disease and Poison. Almost completely useless.
    Priest Leap of Faith Can be useful to save bad players or to troll good ones!
    Rogue Evasion You shouldn't be taking melee hits so this is useless.
    Shaman Spiritwalker's Grace Excellent when you have to heal and run. Especially good with Tranquility on some fights.
    Warlock Demonic Circle: Teleport Warlocks NEVER drop their portal. Don't bother with this.
    Warrior Intimidating Roar Very situational. Good way to deal with adds, sometimes. Basically useless.

    What your target gets from you (based on their role/spec):

    Class Tank Healer Dps
    Death Knight Might of Ursoc - Wild Mushroom: Plague
    Hunter - - Dash
    Mage - - Healing Touch
    Monk Survival Instincts Entangling Roots Bear Hug
    Paladin Barkskin Rebirth Wrath
    Priest - Cyclone Tranquility
    Rogue - - Growl
    Shaman - Prowl Solar Beam
    Warlock - - Rejuvenation
    Warrior Savage Defense - Stampeding Shout
    Last edited by Dendrek; 2012-12-21 at 03:26 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurax View Post
    Jesus Christ? I could not follow his radical left-wing path. No, even if I did believe in a personal god, I would not have the guts, the extreme altruism and radical anti-capitalism necessary to call myself a Christian.
    Quote Originally Posted by ngc2440 View Post
    Hyperbole police! We have been alerted to several reports of some suburbian white guys complaining about racism. Ok I am going to give you a warning. You have 60 days to put on your big boy britches and stop being a whiny kid. Seriously. Time to grow up.

  17. #1657
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    Hi guys,

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Skheals/simple

    Should I go 6552 haste breakpoint with my current gear if im playing with a holy paladin/disc priest in a 10 man?
    I know that ill have to play better with less room to make mistakes but is it really worth it?

    Anyone tried it?

  18. #1658
    No it is not worth going for, there is math in this thread to support that. You should also take a look at the amount of spirit that you are running with in my opinion it is a bit high, I would also look to pick up the regrowth glyph and possibly the wild growth but in fairness to wild growth I don't raid 10's.

  19. #1659
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    why would it be that bad to go last haste breakpoints when I only lost about 2k mp5 and 3.5~% mastery, it's not a big deal ?

  20. #1660
    zdignity, I was curious why you prioritize spirit so highly. You have 5 full spirit gems (including 2 JC-only spirit gems and the spirit meta), 4 spirit/mastery and 1 spirit/haste hybrids. I can appreciate wanting to prioritize spirit with reforges, but you've sacrificed a LOT of int in your gemming. I can't imagine you ever go oom, or even need your own innervates. That's nice never to have to worry about, but it's also a lot of sacrificed throughput. And considering that throughput is what you came here asking about, the second minor haste cap you're asking about is marginal compared to what you're sacrificing. (Btw, you're about 100 haste over the cap.)

    I'm not sure I'd pick up the Regrowth glyph, as Migraine suggests.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-21 at 08:30 PM ----------

    Now that I see your second question, let me ask: What stats would you be taking from to reach that haste cap? Would you do it through reforges? Through gemming? Through enchants?

    Let's say you took all 3,600 from mastery: Using a little paper-napkin math, that's about a 7% loss in overall healing from Mastery for a 12.5% gain in healing from Wild Growth. In order for that increased healing from WG to be worth the loss of Mastery, your Wild Growth would need to account for around 60% of your overall healing. So to be clear, unless Wild Growth accounts for most of your healing done, the switching around of stats would not be worth it.

    I suspect you'd get a lot of that mastery from gems. But I also know that your gems aren't optimal right now. So although you might think you're sacrificing spirit to get that haste, the reality is that you're sacrificing Int to get it (because that's what you've sacrificed to get the spirit you have now). And there is no way, at all, that 3600 haste is worth an equivalent loss of int.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurax View Post
    Jesus Christ? I could not follow his radical left-wing path. No, even if I did believe in a personal god, I would not have the guts, the extreme altruism and radical anti-capitalism necessary to call myself a Christian.
    Quote Originally Posted by ngc2440 View Post
    Hyperbole police! We have been alerted to several reports of some suburbian white guys complaining about racism. Ok I am going to give you a warning. You have 60 days to put on your big boy britches and stop being a whiny kid. Seriously. Time to grow up.

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