Missing out on set bonuses with 10 or 20 int in favour of haste gems really doesn't make sense since you're reforging away haste. Also, I wouldn't recommend relying on DI for a few reasons, albeit the latter is debatable (I guess). Static over proc, it's more reliable which is better for heals ultimately.
BoTG may not be better than Genesis, but it's definitely better than Living Seed! I ran tests with it myself, even fully stacked and reforging for crit the amount healed is TINY compared with other spells looking at overall data. Considering that a huge chunk of our healing is Rejuv, and that Living Seed is conditional (as in only crits proc), BoTG beats it pretty easily. Even if you're doing a lot of tank healing, it's nearly worthless. Sadly. In theory it's a great spell.
As for trinks... Losing 450+ int (considering your raid experience) in favour of crit and passive int is a bad call. ICD is too long, and passive int has a multiplying negative effect on throughput ESPECIALLY considering the trinks you should be needing on in H DS, etc etc. For similar reasons I don't like relying on DI. You're a good player, and your style is interesting, but I question the value of some of your decisions, especially gearing and reforg priorities. You have skill, but you could be maximizing your throughput by making a few small changes.
Parkwaydrive: DI is great on a druid. Even on 25 mans. Depends what fight, what classes you're with, what specs, etc. Not that simple.
I don't like Living Seed's unreliability and the tiny amount it heals for. I'd rather take a realiable buff to one of our most powerful spells, and an ohshit button. So I spec BoTG and NS instead. Pure numbers are not the be-all and end-all for healing. I'm sorry that my gentle disagreement offended your delicate sensibilities, but I genuinely was just trying to help by making suggestions.
Edit: Err, the math you use relies on having your spec, which is linked... and then you are dual-feral specced? O_o It's not very convincing, though your other work is quite impressive. Other blogs are saying it depends on your healing style. If you are doing 10s or 5s and rely more in direct heals, then LS is much more likely to provide a healing boost. If you heal more with hots and do 25 mans (which I do), then the value of LS drops. Those blogs also show the raw numbers of their work, which is a bit more convincing. You are correct that I was oversimplifying, but it is by no means an objective call that everyone should follow.
Last edited by Zarah; 2011-12-26 at 02:03 PM.
I just read the descussion about dropping t12 4p a page before and now I have a lame question.
Does it make sense to switch from mostly t12 normal to t13 normal? Higher itemlvl= int + secondary stats, regardless set boni?
Our Tank is full t13 now and next raid our tokens go to other raidmembers, and I thought I should ask someone with knowledge if it is worth it, or to step aside for Dmg dealers.
We now have 1 HM down, probably going to attempt the next Heroic boss today, and from what I've heard of they are a lot mor heal intensive then normal mode or Morochok. I did not have any mana issues during any fight...do I really need the 2p t13 bonus?
Thanks in advance
PS: Anyone interested my Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/characte.../Leokan/simple (trying to be not Moonkin specced)
Your logic is flawed. Yes a huge chunk of your healing comes from rejuv. but BotG increases that by ~1% per point. 2 points is about 2%. living seed does about what, 3,5% of my total healing? Thats a lot better then BotG. Now, in 25 it would be different, but since I do 10m and I need to keep healing the tank, I cast lots of HT/nourish and those crits are awesomeConsidering that a huge chunk of our healing is Rejuv, and that Living Seed is conditional (as in only crits proc), BoTG beats it pretty easily. Even if you're doing a lot of tank healing, it's nearly worthless.
Last edited by Mokka; 2011-12-26 at 02:18 PM.
As for my haste, I just got my weapon and I've gotta start all over with gems/ reforging. Just haven't done it, been a bit busy with TOR since I got it >.>
And I've never relied on DI. Got it for a while when we had 1 SP and 1 boomie with three locks, but I'd always lose it on Alys for sure and other fights depending on our mages whims, so didn't bother to reforge around it. It's not something *I* reforge around, but others have, and Parkwaydrive saying it's useless always was just silly.
As for LS vs. BoTG, it's situational, as others have said. I like it because a lot of things proc it when you regrowth in tree as well as when I have to tank heal. BoTG just doesn't do enough for me, though I don't particularly like LS either. If I had my choice, I'd take NEITHER of 'em, but you have to take one to advance
Many of the restoration blogs and resource link to my calculator - check out Lissana's guide and Myrrar's guide.
The source for the calculation can be seen from the web source.
It's pretty clear, even if your only source of Living Seed comes from Swiftmending every 15 seconds, it will do more healing than BotG talent. BotG is THAT terrible and overrated a talent.
Point out any blog that says otherwise - you can be pretty sure the author doesn't know about BotG additive stacking.
For 10s and 25s if you keep LB up as much as possible, use ToL correctly so you get CC a normally amount of times, you use Rg vs HT correctly, along with all the other basics, it's rare this tier for it to be anything but NB > LS > BotG
If you test for yourself and they are drastically different on all fights, you may want to take a look on how you heal because you are probably doing something wrong.
NB is a no brainer. LS vs BotG is normally the only thing debatable, but outside of a very few instances where you shouldn't be specing yourself after anyway, botg is pretty terrible.
Thanks very much for taking the time to explain all that nicely and for the patience with my ignorance of the complicated mechanics of BotG etc. Makes sense, though it seems like BotG is not working right, because it seems to be pretty useless given how it stacks. Definitely changing my spec. I forget who asked before, but I almost exclusively raid heal 25s. But even then it seems LS EASILY beats out BotG, even with just 1 point. Gonna spec for it.
Fights virtually consist of low/medium damage phases, where only tanks get constant DPS and the most of the raid damage is avoidable, and short but heavy read-wide AOE damage phases. Now ask yourself two questions:
1. Do you really care how many %s LS gives you when your raid takes like 10-15k DPS? I definitely don't.
2. Do you direct-heal through heavy raid-wide damage? I hope not (free RG's in ToL should be the only exception).
When sh*t is about to happen we either pop CDs or spam rejuvs. And that's where ANY +heal bonus for rejuv matters, while LS is almost worthless. So, although I agree totally that BotG is weaker in theory, it's still more desirable in an actual fight.
both talents are crap. perseverance is king because druids are the weakest healers from all classes and dead healer does 0 healing
So, even though when testing your actual numbers from a fight LS leads to more effective healing than BotG, BotG is better?
No. LS leads to more healing because it leads to more healing. The amount of extra healing RJ gets from BotG in any phase does not compete with the healing LS gives throughout a full fight.
What you are saying makes absolutely no sense. 10k effective healing or 5k effective healing? Those aren't actual number, but you get the point. BotG does so little additional healing because it stacks additively it's worthless.
I raid 25s, I blanket RJ a lot of the time. I only use RG in emergencies and on CC. I hardly ever HT. I never nourish besides downtimes. LS equals to more healing than BotG.
Just because you 'feel like it would give more healing' doesn't mean it does. BotG is broken, end of story. If you read the OP, as it says,
You assume because we RJ a lot now the talent is better. You can math out your own healing and see that'a not the case. This isn't theory, this is taking logs and seeing fact.BotG stacks additively. Meaning with two points you only get right over 2% instead of 4. There is really no reason to take 2/2 botg and only really should take 1/2 if you are dropping massive amounts of regen points and have a ton to spare.
Per Dendrek: Rejuvenation is affected by several additive effects, meaning that although BotG should increase healing by 2% per point, it actually increases healing by MUCH LESS than 2%. In fact, it's worth something close to 1% increase per point. That's a 1% increase to Rejuv's healing, not a 1% increase to overall healing. It's very likely close to a .5% increase per point to overall healing. That amount is so small it almost makes those wasted talent points.
The value of living seed isn't the hps you get but the potential to save a players life when they need fast healing immediately. With NB and living seed, regrowth is actually a very potent flash heal. Trying to analyze the spell in terms of % healing done on WoL is like trying to assess the value of NS based on how much throughput it does on an average fight.
I don't understand the debate here between BotG and LS...
It takes thirty seconds to open up your parses, punch a few numbers into a calculator, and see the clear and objective result. BotG is terrible, LS is less terrible.
It's a complete and utter no-brainer.
With most restos losing their 2T12 bonus, the spec I would recommend is http://www.wowhead.com/talent#0hbhZMZMfzudMruouo