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  1. #1621
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Haste outside of breakpoints is the worst stat, actually <.<.
    That doesn't make a lot of sense. Crit definitely ist our worst stat.

    For me, spirit, haste and mastery are exactly equal. It doesn't matter at all whether I gem haste, mastery or spirit. After I reforge, I always have exactly 3043 haste, 7500 spirit (what I aim for atm) and the rest mastery. Last time I saw some int/haste gems on AH for 40g I used them, not to reach the breakpoint but because it doesn't make a difference at all. I doubt that with current gear you will get to the point where it's impossible to reforge down to the values you need.

    So, at least for 10 mans, spirit = mastery = haste > crit (before reforges).

  2. #1622
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalur View Post
    That doesn't make a lot of sense. Crit definitely ist our worst stat.

    For me, spirit, haste and mastery are exactly equal. It doesn't matter at all whether I gem haste, mastery or spirit. After I reforge, I always have exactly 3043 haste, 7500 spirit (what I aim for atm) and the rest mastery. Last time I saw some int/haste gems on AH for 40g I used them, not to reach the breakpoint but because it doesn't make a difference at all. I doubt that with current gear you will get to the point where it's impossible to reforge down to the values you need.

    So, at least for 10 mans, spirit = mastery = haste > crit (before reforges).
    Thats because you aim for a specific amount of spirit, and not just "as much as I can get my hands on" - for alot of people who are progressing on heroic modes, the spirit that lets you cast more spells to make up for mistakes (when you don't know where the burst dmg comes, or a dps accidentelly stands in something they really shouldn't, doing another crush on garalon due to bad switching of pheromones for instance) makes spirit the most valued stat of the secondaries.
    If you're fine on 7.5K spirit, obviously you won't care about maximizing it, but for some people, being able to reforge an item out of say, mastery and into haste instead of our of spirit and into haste to get exactly 3043 haste, but gain 150 spirit more than they would the other way around, means that whatever gem you use has to be considered in a tool like wowreforge (to see what scenario gives you the most spirit).

    The priority is, as on the frontpage, Intellect = Spirit till comfortable with mana > Haste Cap > Mastery > Crit > Excess Spirit > Excess Haste.
    Meaning that you'd never gem crit, no, but that's because you can always gem mastery instead. Haste is still worse than crit if you're above the haste cap you're reaching for.

  3. #1623
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalur View Post
    That doesn't make a lot of sense. Crit definitely ist our worst stat.

    For me, spirit, haste and mastery are exactly equal. It doesn't matter at all whether I gem haste, mastery or spirit. After I reforge, I always have exactly 3043 haste, 7500 spirit (what I aim for atm) and the rest mastery. Last time I saw some int/haste gems on AH for 40g I used them, not to reach the breakpoint but because it doesn't make a difference at all. I doubt that with current gear you will get to the point where it's impossible to reforge down to the values you need.

    So, at least for 10 mans, spirit = mastery = haste > crit (before reforges).
    He said outside of breakpoints, where crit is definitely better than excess haste, even in 10 mans. You gain absolutely nothing worthwhile when you go beyond what is required for extra HoT ticks.
    Ashr

  4. #1624
    Is resto druid healing about same as in cata? Throw out rejuvs, keep wild growth/swiftmend on cd and fill in with ht/regrowth? Can't push out all that much healing atm :[

    My druid is currently at 374 which is 20 ilvls less than my monk. Sure it's quite a big difference, but are druids really that far behind monks? (no we have't raided with a single resto druid in our 25 man hc guild in mop).

  5. #1625
    They are pretty far ahead, but that will change in a couple weeks with 5.1. They will still be slightly ahead, but lack any utility whatsoever.

  6. #1626
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tavin View Post
    Is resto druid healing about same as in cata? Throw out rejuvs, keep wild growth/swiftmend on cd and fill in with ht/regrowth? Can't push out all that much healing atm :[

    My druid is currently at 374 which is 20 ilvls less than my monk. Sure it's quite a big difference, but are druids really that far behind monks? (no we have't raided with a single resto druid in our 25 man hc guild in mop).
    I wasnt behind my monk who has 4 ilevel more than me, we are kind of even, but it might be that he's still learning. Now when it comes to Holy palas, those thins are beasts right now, talking 45-47% healing done in pvp gear, its really horrid to see you pump out your heals and see you get destroyed by a paladin using only instants and hots because of an OP PvP set bonus. Mind you its okay to afk then :P

  7. #1627
    Sorry for my english !! for years a go , i read everything about my pjs in this forums , but never try to active on it because the language , but now i have serius problems...

    we are in 2/6 10 normal....

    479 ilevel..... resto , at 50 % of the boss life my mana is tottaly out ...... i spam wg, lifeblom, renew, ..... i dont know what i doing bad

    CLBRAVO - SANGUINO - EU

  8. #1628
    Quote Originally Posted by BAJONDIL View Post
    Sorry for my english !! for years a go , i read everything about my pjs in this forums , but never try to active on it because the language , but now i have serius problems...

    we are in 2/6 10 normal....

    479 ilevel..... resto , at 50 % of the boss life my mana is tottaly out ...... i spam wg, lifeblom, renew, ..... i dont know what i doing bad

    CLBRAVO - SANGUINO - EU
    Try not to spam Rejuvenation too much. This is a common reason to go out of mana quickly nowadays.
    Ashr

  9. #1629
    Quote Originally Posted by Tavin View Post
    Is resto druid healing about same as in cata? Throw out rejuvs, keep wild growth/swiftmend on cd and fill in with ht/regrowth? Can't push out all that much healing atm :[

    My druid is currently at 374 which is 20 ilvls less than my monk. Sure it's quite a big difference, but are druids really that far behind monks? (no we have't raided with a single resto druid in our 25 man hc guild in mop).
    Monks are very far ahead, and on some fights, are incredibly far ahead. Druids aren't too far behind, but in terms of raw throughput, are probably only ahead of Priests.

    As you start getting more gear so you get more spirit and spell power, you'll notice your numbers shoot up.

  10. #1630
    I've been shedding spirit lately, actually. I've slowly been getting up to about 9200 spirit just from ilevel upgrades. Got two new pieces this week I started using with no spirit on them at all and have dropped back down to about 7600 spirit and am doing better than ever. I'm at 490 ilevel currently with 4 piece 496 tier. My heals are hitting really hard now with rejuvenation ticks with harmony up going for 23-24k non crit. I have about 9000 mastery raid buffed. Still have a bunch of crit I can't seem to get rid of, though (~1100 rating).

    AOE healing is getting to be quite nice indeed, and very sustainable. Between WG at 10 seconds, Shrooms at 10 seconds and Swiftmend at 12 seconds and minimal heals otherwise I can sustain good healing output (not sure exact value, but around 35-40k hps) and be basically mana neutral. On heroic Kings I give away all my innervates to my co-healer, a shaman since I sit at 100% mana the entire first sub-boss and rarely drop below 75% the rest of the fight. I'm starting to consider reforging out of spirit, but I haven't done any real moves towards that yet.

  11. #1631
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post
    I've been shedding spirit lately, actually. I've slowly been getting up to about 9200 spirit just from ilevel upgrades. Got two new pieces this week I started using with no spirit on them at all and have dropped back down to about 7600 spirit and am doing better than ever. I'm at 490 ilevel currently with 4 piece 496 tier. My heals are hitting really hard now with rejuvenation ticks with harmony up going for 23-24k non crit. I have about 9000 mastery raid buffed. Still have a bunch of crit I can't seem to get rid of, though (~1100 rating).

    AOE healing is getting to be quite nice indeed, and very sustainable. Between WG at 10 seconds, Shrooms at 10 seconds and Swiftmend at 12 seconds and minimal heals otherwise I can sustain good healing output (not sure exact value, but around 35-40k hps) and be basically mana neutral. On heroic Kings I give away all my innervates to my co-healer, a shaman since I sit at 100% mana the entire first sub-boss and rarely drop below 75% the rest of the fight. I'm starting to consider reforging out of spirit, but I haven't done any real moves towards that yet.
    Are you still using spirit food/flask? That'd be the first place to look into shedding more spirit, as you get spirit:int at a 1:1 ratio, while int is obviously stronger than the secondaries you'd get from reforging spirit:secondary 1:1.

  12. #1632
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashrr View Post
    Try not to spam Rejuvenation too much. This is a common reason to go out of mana quickly nowadays.
    what i has to spam? nourish?

    how can up the raid when the dont have health?


    i use allthe time life bloom , wild growth and rrejuvenation whit swiftrmend....

  13. #1633
    Quote Originally Posted by BAJONDIL View Post
    what i has to spam? nourish?

    how can up the raid when the dont have health?


    i use allthe time life bloom , wild growth and rrejuvenation whit swiftrmend....
    Read the guide?
    Just for your info if you are going out of mana you should not be casting wild growth on cooldown. Only when it really is needed. It may be true that it doesn't cost a lot of mana per healing done but it certainly still costs a lot per spell. You do not have to spam your best spells all the time. Heck if you are out of mana and there is not a lot of healing to do you can just stop casting all together and dont do anything besides keeping lifebloom up, swiftmend on cd and using regrowth/healing touch on procs.
    The most important thing as a restro druid is to count on your HoTs. Let them do their work. A target with a rejuvenation does not need any additional healing for the most part.

  14. #1634
    Quote Originally Posted by BAJONDIL View Post
    what i has to spam? nourish?

    how can up the raid when the dont have health?


    i use allthe time life bloom , wild growth and rrejuvenation whit swiftrmend....
    To be frank, he didn't really give you helpful advice. All of our heals (except RG) are fine to use as long as they don't overheal. As you get more experience with the different fights, you can better plan your spell and cooldown usage so you minimize mana spent while keeping the raid up.

    Rejuv is good to put out a high amount of healing to a number of targets, or when you need a low execute time heal on someone. Use WG when it won't mostly be overheal. RG to spot heal, HT if you can afford it. etc. etc. et cetera.

    You really shouldn't be "spamming" anything. Use whatever is best to use in the given situation.

  15. #1635
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Are you still using spirit food/flask? That'd be the first place to look into shedding more spirit, as you get spirit:int at a 1:1 ratio, while int is obviously stronger than the secondaries you'd get from reforging spirit:secondary 1:1.
    I only used spirit flask and food the first raid night this expansion. I've been using int ever since.

  16. #1636
    Quote Originally Posted by PHsname View Post
    To be frank, he didn't really give you helpful advice. All of our heals (except RG) are fine to use as long as they don't overheal.
    No helpful advice? Did you see his initial post with almost no information or logs to check what he's doing wrong? Did I say anywhere that a particular spell is bad?

    Many druids are still stuck in RJ blanketing mode from pre-MoP, even when 70+% will overheal and this seems to be the most common reason among people who complain they're going oom 50% into a fight.
    Last edited by Ashrr; 2012-11-24 at 01:18 AM.
    Ashr

  17. #1637
    very helpful guide thanks a lot.

  18. #1638
    Quote Originally Posted by Torty View Post
    2. Spirit scaling. All other healers get something out of spirit be it more holy power, more chi (resulting in more mana tea), stronger rapture or insane mana tide. The only thing our Spirit gives is more Rejuvs, which is really just it: more Rejuvs. The more gear people will get, the worse druids will be. It's kind of strange balance to have, when only one spec out of five gets nothing from the only regen stat. It can be compensated by higher spellpower scaling (and it is, for a degree), but it also generates bigger problems. It shifts us into somewhat 'rotational' healers. We've been there before: WotLK. It won't be as bad this time, but you will still have to press WG and SM exactly on cd or you will get majorly screwed, more than any other healer class is screwed by missing their cds, because of higher % healing done by your 'rotational' abilities.

    I might be overreacting or doing wrong analysis, but if the trend is there, we will be majorly screwed next tier without fixes. I liked niche healing model more :/ This generalization coupled with poor balancing brings more problems than solves.
    I don't think you're overreacting here. I agree completely, and this is exactly what I was telling my healing partners the other day. Without a secondary resource or something extra from Spirit, we're in a rather bad spot.
    Ashr

  19. #1639
    Maybe add the trinkets from the Dominance Offensive faction to the trinket list? Pretty nice ones.

  20. #1640
    Great Resto guide! Thanks for the info!

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