Who actually likes the new Ret on 85?

[JayJay09]

I get the idea that the OP is a big liar, lacks in Paladin experience, started in WotLK, and is now crying about a much more complex Ret Paladin.

Well, that's my impression.

How hard could it be? Maybe you need to sit in a corner and think for a while.


I on the other hand am quite interested in the Ret changes!

"I am playing my paladin as my main and as ret for like 4-5 years." What part did you not understand? You think I lie cuz of some mechanic? Some "complex" mechanic? It's not complex, it's rng. If you like rng, okay.. Cool. You don't seem to care much about anticipation then.

I am no Wotlk Fanboy at all. It was way too easy, just smashing buttons. But the fact that you could perform well with Sacred Shield and instant FoL leaving you the choice to either exo or heal at an expense that must not be compared to WoG and TV gave the spec something cool, something rewarding.

I've put out that I can live with this Cata Ret in PvE. I don't like it, I find it boring and it lacks awesomeness, but I am by no means overtaxed with its rotation. The Dmg is good, but I just hate how it's done. It's like the attempt to feed the starving. Our Seals are crap, our mastery clashes, rng all over the place, aoe'ing is a pest, inquisition has little effect. You would have to be able to dps for around 17 seconds in order to have a gain in dps compared to a 3 HP TV. Inquisition just makes up for something, which has always been there.. But now you need to activate it. Okay, I'll do that. But it's nothing new, nothing interesting, just a fail attempt to make ret more complex. And stacking the Seal is just wait and see.. But as I said, I can cope with that.

What I cannot cope with is the performance in pvp. And whatever your tard impression is, it's wrong. You don't have any clue about me or how much I am into ret. You rather seem to be some unexperienced Paladin who get's a hard dick when he casts a 3 HP TV. And if you don't care about PvP get the hell out of my sight.

[EndGame]

I'm loving ret in PVE; buffed up we can do some pretty nice damage.

I'm just hoping that the PVP nerfs are enough to get all the FOTM rets to re-roll mages... and when the first patch comes out that buffs ret and nerfs mages; I will be happy.

Dev's have already stated ret needs work, especially our mastery. So I am definately sticking it out...

I mean... END OF THE WORLD! You should all re-roll warriors.

[JayJay09]

I'm loving ret in PVE; buffed up we can do some pretty nice damage.

I'm just hoping that the PVP nerfs are enough to get all the FOTM rets to re-roll mages... and when the first patch comes out that buffs ret and nerfs mages; I will be happy.

Dev's have already stated ret needs work, especially our mastery. So I am definately sticking it out...

I mean... END OF THE WORLD! You should all re-roll warriors.

Where did you get that from? That the Devs have stated ret needs work? They do need it, desperately.
And yes, our dmg is okay. I am not complaining about dps as of yet, I am happy with what I can pull off. But the mechanic.. It's so boring.. and.. Uh, I've pointed it out often enough..

[Deleted]

Blizzard already mentioned that they will be looking into the ret paladin's mastery. Let's hope they're not only going to raise the numbers (I fear for this tho).

---------- Post added 2010-12-10 at 06:35 PM ----------

Where did you get that from? That the Devs have stated ret needs work? They do need it, desperately.
And yes, our dmg is okay. I am not complaining about dps as of yet, I am happy with what I can pull off. But the mechanic.. It's so boring.. and.. Uh, I've pointed it out often enough..

They mentioned it in a bluepost a few days ago on the frontpage of MMO-champ.

[JayJay09]

Blizzard already mentioned that they will be looking into the ret paladin's mastery. Let's hope they're not only going to raise the numbers (I fear for this tho).

---------- Post added 2010-12-10 at 06:35 PM ----------



They mentioned it in a bluepost a few days ago on the frontpage of MMO-champ.

The mastery needs a complete overhaul. I liked the idea of increasing holy dmg done or turning some part of melee dmg into holy + a heal of like 5% max hp each time TV is used. The healing increases for 0,25% / point of mastery. Just an example, but that would be something that feels right.

As long as GC has something to say I do not expect the Retripaladin to be in a good state ever for the whole time of Cataexpansion. I would love to be wrong though...

[Sindy]

Sometime in a future patch is what Ghostcrawler said. Basically, they know its a problem but they don't really care enough to fix it so much.

[ragingsoul]

Damn, my favourite Class/Spec is about to turn into something that literally disgusts me... Sad story and prolly cool as well.. But seriously.. Ret has never felt this wrong.. At least for me.

yeah, that's exactly how I felt 4 months ago, on alpha/beta. Coming from someone that raided for 3 years, mostly as prot in TBC and Wrath, when I saw the changes and the implications, I got disgusted, to a point where I said, stop, I'm just not continuing playing.

When you're at a point where you don't want to play anything else, but you just can't play this class anymore, you know it's time to quit. simple.
What saddens me even more is quotes from GC saying WoTLK retri was broken. Yeah, wasn't perfect, but if that was broken, what's retri now?

The community said again, and again, healing would be a problem as others classes scale from percentage of hp, not fixed amount, we said again and again that mastery was not working, that rng from everything made it weird in the end. We said again and again, that inquisition not buffing our finishers or mastery is a scaling problem. But like everything else, it's some "L2P issues " blue posts, or "We'll see how it will turn out" or "We have some surprises for you still ".
Yeah, I loved the Class preview joke in the beginning of this year, that was even more delayed, because it's always getting look at last, and rushed.

Anyway, enough QQ, just do like me, quit the game. simple enough. I'm at a point where (if I had cata) I don't want to lvl my pala, more my resto druid or rogue, but I don't want to raid with them, I want to raid with my pala. it's hard to explain, but I just don't see myself raiding 12h+ a week with something else than a paladin. Holy never was something I liked, and they killed prot and retri for me. So it was hard, but I'm quiting.

just to have a lauph, this was written by GC not so long ago

Ret was broken. If you don’t see eye to eye with us on that, then it’s understandable why the degree of change might be surprising to you. We tried to advertise that change was coming for a long time because we didn’t want anyone to be surprised when it happened. Many players, including many Ret players, were just not happy with the mechanics of the spec in Lich King. I can understand if you just happened to love your character the way he or she was, but unfortunately, that doesn’t give us much room to maneuver in attempting to implement a design that we will be happy with, and ultimately many players (though it will never be all) will be as well.


if I change things a bit, it can almost be said from players now :P

Ret is broken. If you don’t see eye to eye with us on that, then it’s understandable why the degree of problems might be surprising to you. We tried to advertise that problems were coming for a long time because we didn’t want anyone to be surprised when patch day would happened . Many players, including many Ret players, are just not happy with the mechanics of the spec in Cata. I can understand if you just happened to love your character design the way he or she was, but unfortunately, that doesn’t give us much room to maneuver in attempting to like and adopt a design that we will be happy with, and ultimately many players (though it will never be all) will be as well.

[Sindy]

I love paying a monthly fee to beta test. Yes, that was sarcastic.

[dvYakka]

To be honest, while it's subject to more RNG than I'd probably like, I find the new Ret a lot more interesting than the old Ret. Paladins have been a rollercoaster of suck and awesome, and they're starting to even out a bit, it seems. The bugs and balance with the current incarnation will eventually be fixed, and all will be well.

Except, of course, for people like the OP, who will continually bitch and moan about everything that doesn't automatically equate to them a "win" button. Here's a tip... If you're complaining, have written out two pages of angry text, and respond to people calling you on your bullshit with choice quotes like "You rather seem to be some unexperienced Paladin who get's a hard dick when he casts a 3 HP TV. And if you don't care about PvP get the hell out of my sight.", you're probably a tard. A Ret-tard, even.

[JayJay09]

To be honest, while it's subject to more RNG than I'd probably like, I find the new Ret a lot more interesting than the old Ret. Paladins have been a rollercoaster of suck and awesome, and they're starting to even out a bit, it seems. The bugs and balance with the current incarnation will eventually be fixed, and all will be well.

Except, of course, for people like the OP, who will continually bitch and moan about everything that doesn't automatically equate to them a "win" button. Here's a tip... If you're complaining, have written out two pages of angry text, and respond to people calling you on your bullshit with choice quotes like "You rather seem to be some unexperienced Paladin who get's a hard dick when he casts a 3 HP TV. And if you don't care about PvP get the hell out of my sight.", you're probably a tard. A Ret-tard, even.

Jesus Christ.. I grow tired of trying to explain nerds like you what this is about. You obviously don't play retribution as main and want to achieve a lot of things. The mate you are referring to tried to make me look like a raging prick who knows nothing. It's not about a fucking Win-Button.. It's about a working mechanic, which is competitive and in line with others. Ret was never that broken as it is now. You didn't shed a single thought on how far the ret mechanic reaches.. Wtf, if you think this ret is cool, okay. Good for you if you play one (as twink prolly.. I hope not as main, would be embarassing). If you don't play one and simply think you're an omnipotent genius able to see things in a greater scheme then just shut up please, cuz u cannot understand this matter sufficiently. I am no stupid FotM Ret.

[Wotar]

Jesus Christ.. I grow tired of trying to explain nerds like you what this is about. You obviously don't play retribution as main and want to achieve a lot of things. The mate you are referring to tried to make me look like a raging prick who knows nothing. It's not about a fucking Win-Button.. It's about a working mechanic, which is competitive and in line with others. Ret was never that broken as it is now. You didn't shed a single thought on how far the ret mechanic reaches.. Wtf, if you think this ret is cool, okay. Good for you if you play one (as twink prolly.. I hope not as main, would be embarassing). If you don't play one and simply think you're an omnipotent genius able to see things in a greater scheme then just shut up please, cuz u cannot understand this matter sufficiently. I am no stupid FotM Ret.

I appreciate Blizz making a change, with the intent to remove button bashers ruining our spec's reputation. I find the change a bit more fun to play, but at the same time, when you get to high mastery levels, it really feels like a waste when you use Zealotry. Perhaps the mastery or 31 pt talent (as stated by many) could be altered to have less conflict with each other.

For example, you pop Zealotry, and then you get a streak of 6 HoL in a row. That's a fair chunk of Zealotry time wasted.

[EndGame]

Where did you get that from? That the Devs have stated ret needs work? They do need it, desperately.
And yes, our dmg is okay. I am not complaining about dps as of yet, I am happy with what I can pull off. But the mechanic.. It's so boring.. and.. Uh, I've pointed it out often enough..

You're absolutely insane if you think the mechanics are more boring than they were in Wrath.

Wrath was absolute faceroll with stupid amounts of frontloaded damage... the frontload has been nerfed, severely, and in PVP its been nerfed too much. Ret's burst is pretty bad... but in PVE I feel we're in a pretty good place.

If you have a problem with Ret in it's current incarnation. Roll something else. I enjoy ret in it's current state and will probably play a holy paladin in PVP for the immediate future. Learn to live with the changes or move on... either way; you're just whining on here and it's not providing constructive conversation. Please stop trolling.

[Nonsensei]

Im sorry but everyone here who thinks the ret changes are "interesting" or "hinks that "ret paladins are where they need to be" is either uninformed or has some sort of irrational bias against ret paladins.

The frank and undisguised fact is that ret paladins received a hefty nerf. The nerf was so hefty, in fact, that ret paladins will typically find themselves at or near the bottom of every DPS chart in any given situation, assuming that gear and skill throughout the raid are comparable. Considering ret has no other useful function than to deal damage, this presents a serious problem for people like me who were asked to fill a DPS slot in their raiding guild. I dont know where or what our first raid will be, but i can tell you that after the first night i may be kicked out of my raiding slot.

Even while leveling up i felt that the spec was remarkably weak. 80-82 was an outright nightmare as individual nothing mobs my level often came close to killing me because my damage wasnt there and neither was my self healing. Even at 85 it takes a relatively long time to kill non elite single mobs my level and a pack of 3 or more is practically a death sentence even when i blow lay on hands or something.

The ret DPS rotation often has gaps of up to 4 seconds where you have NOTHING TO DO but autoattack and hope something procs or comes off cooldown. Inquisition is next to useless, as the attacks we will use most often, crusaders strike and templar;s verdict, are not buffed by it. Divine storm is not worth the point you spent to get it. The ability is completely bereft of any function because it shares a cooldown with crusder strike. Divine storm deals 2-3k aoe damage and has a 40% chance to generate holy power while crusader strike deals 10-12k damage and has a 100% chance to generate holy power. The hela on it was useless at level 80, and now that health pools are 4 times what they were in wotlk, the heal might as well not even exist.

I have completely abandoned inquisition, since the damage bonus it provides over 30 sec probably wont ever exceed the 10-12k i could deal with a 3 point TV unless i get super lucky with exo procs.

I am considering dropping the class altogether, since my guild doesnt need a tank or a healer. Sticking with ret right now means being left behind in the content and never raiding.

[Deleted]

Im an average person who played ret paladin for about a year now, got to 85 and respecced to prot I hate how some times you get no procs other times your flooded with them.. Then you got zealotry and wings that dont seem to work well together. Inquisition isa spell i dislike as i hate having to keep it up, was why I dnt play druid as I hated having to keep up savage roar.
Tho on a side note enjoying tanking. And started leveling my mage 2 buttons is more me.

[Noxturn3]

I no longer pvp as ret pains me to do so but the dmg is not there nor is the cc, not to mention our survivability has been nerfed. i hope that ret pve can remain viable, or i'll have to stop playing as ret. (btw long time reader 1st time poster, hello all )

[EndGame]

Ret is no longer an AOE monster spec. I do absolutely fantastic single target damage still (#1 in all 5-man runs I have done with guildies). We scale exceptionally well with buffs so I am assuming we'll be even better in a raid environment.

DS is only useful when there are huge groups of mobs, IE: more than 5. And even then; it's not really that useful. We just don't have great AOE currently. It's a fact and I don't expect it to change UNLESS they go back to DS's damage being increased with HP without consuming it. (IE: Get up to 3 HP and then use DS on CD for decent damage).

Single target; it's just not faceroll anymore. If you do the rotation well and play/gear well you'll do very comparable DPS. Yes we were nerfed when the shattering happened. Specifically TV, CS, and Hammer were nerfed fairly severely.

Our self healing is abysmal and needs to be buffed; but in a raiding environment that's not going to make or break you.

The spec needs work; but it's moving in the right direction... I am, however, making an assumption that you know how to play the class and are willing to learn the new stuff. IF that is so; then you can do just fine with Ret. If you are not willing to do that; consider yourself one of the FOTM Rets who wanted to faceroll yourself to epics like you could in wrath. Incredibly bad players who were ret were doing 80-90% of my damage in similar gear but couldn't understand a boss mechanic to save their lives. There is much more to this game than just smashing your face on the keyboard.

[frejborg]

While you probably have some good points to make, OP. I think you could present them much better and we'd all be the better to discuss them.

Insulting someone doesn't prove your point or make you right.

I care very much about PvP, more than PvE completely.

I have many clues about who you are and what kind of player you are. You think your posts reveal nothing of yourself? They do.

Anyway, I'd rather stay focused on Ret Paladins, their state and how to improve them!

Sounds like many are happy with the current ret, and many are not, but for varying reasons.

What's so bad about it? What's good? System looks pretty good to me, perhaps a bit too complicated, needlessly. lol

[tripleabd]

as far as my experience goes with the ret spec, i find it more awesome than just being that lame class that gets in raids just for the buffs and dps ONLY! however right now i get a lot of people asking for my help as a ret paladin cause now we have CC and other new stuff that is trully what makes us shine as a support class in game...

i'm mostly a pve kind of guy i don't like pvp... but from what i see that you are having a problem from one type of classes ingame which is the DK and the story about your duel, no offence but its like QQing about "NERF DKs!!!! they are UNSTOPPABLE!" type of thread as i see it.

my advice is that you gotta see the ret spec from a different point of view and know what best suits u then your problem might be solved.

[Snipersteve]

Ret is no longer an AOE monster spec. I do absolutely fantastic single target damage still (#1 in all 5-man runs I have done with guildies). We scale exceptionally well with buffs so I am assuming we'll be even better in a raid environment.

DS is only useful when there are huge groups of mobs, IE: more than 5. And even then; it's not really that useful. We just don't have great AOE currently. It's a fact and I don't expect it to change UNLESS they go back to DS's damage being increased with HP without consuming it. (IE: Get up to 3 HP and then use DS on CD for decent damage).

Single target; it's just not faceroll anymore. If you do the rotation well and play/gear well you'll do very comparable DPS. Yes we were nerfed when the shattering happened. Specifically TV, CS, and Hammer were nerfed fairly severely.

Our self healing is abysmal and needs to be buffed; but in a raiding environment that's not going to make or break you.

The spec needs work; but it's moving in the right direction... I am, however, making an assumption that you know how to play the class and are willing to learn the new stuff. IF that is so; then you can do just fine with Ret. If you are not willing to do that; consider yourself one of the FOTM Rets who wanted to faceroll yourself to epics like you could in wrath. Incredibly bad players who were ret were doing 80-90% of my damage in similar gear but couldn't understand a boss mechanic to save their lives. There is much more to this game than just smashing your face on the keyboard.

Is everyone that likes ret paladin like this guy? Only like it because it pulls good damage?.... Yes, ret paladin pulls good numbers, everyone understands this, but the spec is EXTREMELY tedious to play. It's not about the numbers, it's about the mechanics.

[ragingsoul]

as far as my experience goes with the ret spec, i find it more awesome than just being that lame class that gets in raids just for the buffs and dps ONLY! however right now i get a lot of people asking for my help as a ret paladin cause now we have CC and other new stuff that is trully what makes us shine as a support class in game...

i'm mostly a pve kind of guy i don't like pvp... but from what i see that you are having a problem from one type of classes ingame which is the DK and the story about your duel, no offence but its like QQing about "NERF DKs!!!! they are UNSTOPPABLE!" type of thread as i see it.

my advice is that you gotta see the ret spec from a different point of view and know what best suits u then your problem might be solved.

not to brag, but

i find it more awesome than just being that lame class that gets in raids just for the buffs and dps ONLY!

what more do you want to come as?

now we have CC and other new stuff

you mean the CC we had for more than 2 years?

did you miss type?