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  1. #61
    I haven't done an instance yet without at least 3 other guildies and after reading this, I'm quite thankful.

    We only had problems with 1 person, in normal grim batol there's like a 7-8 mob group and we cc'd 3 of them just to save healer mana and keep the run going fast. The hunter multi-shot's and breaks them, we call him out on it and he states; "we don't need CC" and my fav " mult-shot is my biggest AoE attack and I can't control what it shoots"... yeah, it's you're only aoe buddy (traps don't count!) he was kicked and replaced with a guildy

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by littlepiggy View Post
    I haven't done an instance yet without at least 3 other guildies and after reading this, I'm quite thankful.

    We only had problems with 1 person, in normal grim batol there's like a 7-8 mob group and we cc'd 3 of them just to save healer mana and keep the run going fast. The hunter multi-shot's and breaks them, we call him out on it and he states; "we don't need CC" and my fav " mult-shot is my biggest AoE attack and I can't control what it shoots"... yeah, it's you're only aoe buddy (traps don't count!) he was kicked and replaced with a guildy
    As far as I know Multishot doesn't hit CC'd targets, but I could be wrong :P

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Vespian View Post
    "And grab aggro"

    Ever thought about how your own ways might make less sense than you first think? Always consider the worst. If the mage pulls, and some random dps starts nuking the other mobs straight away, you split your attention between getting back aggro from 4 mobs, randomly devided over 2 or more dps.

    If you pull, you have direct control over the behavior of the mobs. They will start walking towards you and they will start hitting you first. Sheeping directly after you pull is a strategy that's , by far, more suitable for any encounter. Your method might work, but my method has absolutely no arguments against it. Yours has "risk" attached to it, which is something I try to prevent.

    I also don't see how it's "easier for everyone involved".. that just makes no sense, since obviously, you're making it harder for yourself in an imperfect situation.

    Disclaimer: Of course, this seems to work for you, so it's probably attached to your soul by now and I wouldn't try to force you to change it. I'm just saying that objectively, it's a more risky way of doing things.
    Don't group with dumb people.

    It's a philosphy that has served me well.

  4. #64
    Deleted
    Amongst other chars, my main has been a tank since just after vanilla launch. Levelling slow this time round, so haven't been in any dungeons yet, so thanks for all the posts. I'm now dreading it lol.

    Have to say to Vespian, I agree with everything you have said. Can tell you were also around in MC days.

    One of the benefits in wotlk as a tank was instant queues for dungeons, and 10 mins later you've finished. Seems I shalt be investing more into guild groups if this is the way its going.

    There was a mention about time between pulls with all the markings etc. Generally on 'harder' instances in a pug, I would ask the CCers politely (no shame in being polite and humble at the start if it means a smooth run) to look for marks and do the appropriate CC. My marks are bound to F5, F6, F7, F8, F9, and, as a (good) tank, you spend 75% of you time looking around the area for things 'going wrong' as if a mob is infront of you, it aint going no where unless you make it. So straight after the 1st group is dead I'm already marking up the next one. By the time you reach it its an instant pull.

    I don't think you can blame wotlk dps specifically for not knowing what CC is, as some tanks are just as bad. Difference is a bad tank and good dps will fail most of the time over a good tank and bad dps.

    /Krag

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by nnelson54 View Post
    Don't group with dumb people.

    It's a philosphy that has served me well.
    I pug as much as I play with guildies. I don't mind pugging. It's a challenge which will only make me better at what I do. Of which the above example is proof.

    Edit: Also, how do you deal with multiple-ranged/casters-in-mobgroup ? I can imagine it could be painful if your sheeper decides that line of sighting is too much hassle and figures you'll fix the problem for him

    Quote Originally Posted by Krag View Post
    Amongst other chars, my main has been a tank since just after vanilla launch. Levelling slow this time round, so haven't been in any dungeons yet, so thanks for all the posts. I'm now dreading it lol.

    Have to say to Vespian, I agree with everything you have said. Can tell you were also around in MC days.

    One of the benefits in wotlk as a tank was instant queues for dungeons, and 10 mins later you've finished. Seems I shalt be investing more into guild groups if this is the way its going.

    There was a mention about time between pulls with all the markings etc. Generally on 'harder' instances in a pug, I would ask the CCers politely (no shame in being polite and humble at the start if it means a smooth run) to look for marks and do the appropriate CC. My marks are bound to F5, F6, F7, F8, F9, and, as a (good) tank, you spend 75% of you time looking around the area for things 'going wrong' as if a mob is infront of you, it aint going no where unless you make it. So straight after the 1st group is dead I'm already marking up the next one. By the time you reach it its an instant pull.

    /Krag
    The above Bolded section is especially important. In Heroic Shattered Halls, I used to mark a target with the skull and instead of dumping all threat on that mob, I focused mostly on the mobs around it (and partially on the skull). I knew skull would then change target in the first ~6-8 seconds, which I would be waiting for with a taunt, or mocking blow, if required. And there'd always be concussion blow if you'd really need it. After the taunt I'd go back to the mobs around the skull and that way I virtually never actually lost any aggro. (melee)DPS might get a single hit once in a while, but that was simply my own design, or pattern, of tanking and I knew that damage would never be enough to kill them, even if they'd get crit.

    You know what's also REALLY really bad about current tanks? All of them, no exceptions so far, pull with taunt. I mean, ok, a paladin, maybe, but a Warrior? WHY??? You're shooting yourself in the foot. It doesn't do anything, has an 8 second CD and if you lose aggro before that CD is finished the dps is fucked....
    Last edited by Vespian; 2010-12-10 at 11:19 AM.

  6. #66
    Deleted
    I have now done 6+ runs throug Throne of tided on my feral druid .. .yes i got bogged down in Vash and since i never discoved BRC i never tried it.

    My impression of the runs was first run i was on the clock eager to use my Root skill (even glyphed it to be instant cast)
    anyway i noticed the tank & healers where ignoreing CC etc. i hope it will fix it self later but after the first inital run i settled in with the Zerg principle.

    the main objective of all bigger mobs fight is Interupt its spells and on trash packs its Focus fire on one mob fast

    needless to say a sheep or two whouldn't hurt.

    but my main point is IF a DPS is sloppy and hit before you start to tank well its his own fault. if you break the sheep you tank it mentality. I haven't tried tanking yet as my druid had poor gear before Cata launch but hell im going to try it once more now that i got trash the aoe packs shouldn't be as bad as before.

    Bind the marks to NupPad 1-8 and 9 to clear mark that way its in easy reach.

    Explain for the group what you expect of them. when i tanked in BC i had a macro.

    /p Hello im you tank for the evening, Please hold back all DPS for 6s after the mob gets to me. also If you break a sheep you tank it!. Kill order Skull,X, Circle,Star,Diamond,Square,....

    with that done. i could pull ranged and the dps could sheep there targets etc. and i was given time to get ahead on threat.

    Still remember my 3th Sholomance run i pugged as a tank for a few years ago. ppl refused to use CC, and esp. a mage that when i pulled i saw a huge ball of fire (Pyroblast) hit the mob. i taunted him on me and i saw a second huge ball of fire (PoM / Pyroblast) hit the mob ... needless to say the mage went belly up pretty fast p: and ofc. did he complained on my tanking.


    Remember

    If a healer dies due to a mob is on him -- its the Tanks fault
    If a dps dies due to a mob is on him its 99.5% of the case the DPS own fault for not watching his threat
    If a tank dies its normaly the healers fault or the group doing somthing wrong like not using CC
    If a tank dies due to Healer mana beeing low before pull its the tanks fault.
    If someone dies from standing in the wrong place its his own dam fault.
    If someone pulls adds when healer drinking its the pullers fault
    If you done everything right and still everyone dies well sheep happens.
    Last edited by mmocd192080789; 2010-12-10 at 12:31 PM.

  7. #67
    Stood in the Fire Rilec's Avatar
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    I've been having the opposite problem. The DPS I've been randoming with are smart and try to use CC, but the tanks are almost all still in "grab everything around us and AoE tank like a boss" mode. CC is like a tank magnet these days. Then I have to hear my healer friend whining in vent for the next 20 minutes. It's pretty lame. :\

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