Paladin - retribution, burst, SoC and fun

[morda]

Hello

After seeing all the lame changes to paladin in last 2 years, I need to share my thoughts and to sigh in despair.
I terribly hate all the "nostalgia" posts considering dungeons and player skills, but this post has to do with both probably, sorry for that.

As for me, I did enjoy the old Seal of Command (chance on hit to deal 70% weapon damage as Holy damage). That was fun - either you get killed because SoC didn't proc, or you instagib something because SoC procced and everything went critical. Ohh that was the fun! I never moaned when I was killed by arcane mages because I knew, if I get close to them - I destroy their fragile selves with my wonderful Seal of Command crit. But if not - they own me, when my bubble is on CD.

Here is a question to all "old" paladins, who played Ret spec in vanilla or BC: what would you prefer, the "old" SoC system (Seal of Casino - either you kill stuff under the duration of Hammer of Justice), or the new system, with a slow flow of damage without high spikes as it did before.

For me, with all the recent changes, Paladin is a boring, no-fun class. Good bye RNG, good bye fun, good bye Ret pally pvp.

P.S. Same goes to Enhancement shamans with 2handers+windfury. Those were my favourite classes and spec combinations.
P.P.S. I mean Battlegrounds when I said pvp. I hate arena

[Baracuda]

You don't think art of war + divine purpose = RNG?
If you're lucky with those 2 you can be a killing machine!

Edit: AW + HoW can still give you insane burst, I dueled a ret pala with my friend's deadly geared warrior and the pala had relentless/wrathful, I had 26k hp and 20k of the dmg he did to me was through his 2 HoWs, else I would had taken him.

[Retributed]

It was frustrating while leveling. My damage was consistent, but I never had that "oh man procs + crits went nuts and the mob fell before it could get its first cast off"

I dunno. I think the problem with a lot of players(deny it all you want, but 98% of the population is included) were spoiled by Wrath and the mobs falling before your 2nd GCD is done.

[link064]

Have you even played ret recently? The whole spec is laden with copious RNG. If you want a spec where 50% of your dps is not skill dependent but simply on RNG, play ret.

[Asaad]

I have played a paladin for a looong time. I think there are not enough o's in the world to be able to tell you how long i played my paladin. But I've always hated it in the days that you talk about. That killing somebody in one global cooldown if you are lucky, was the thing that ruined that class. Pvp is not about being lucky and having a proc at the right time. People that are talking about those times as being the good times are not true pvpers and don't deserve to have a saying when it comes to pvp. Wining in pvp has to come as a result of you knowing what to do at the right time, countering whatever the enemy is doing, and NOT praying to whatever gods for a proc that could win you the game. That is NOT pvp.
Anyways, i'm glad those times are over.

[frejborg]

While I haven't played 4.0 and beyond yet... I completely understand the OP on Ret pally.

I started Ret Paladin as my main near the end of BC but before the 3.0 patches (when ret became OP).

My friend and I leveled ret paladins together and pvped together and we LOVED IT.

I completely know what you mean about SoC procs, and getting massive double or triple crits that basically spelled death to anyone.

Barely anyone played Ret then, and it was lolret to all. But it was actually a very playable spec in PvP. FUN too.

You might run up to someone and and get no SoC proc, so tut.. you get a little white hit, you had almost nothing else to do between Auto attack swings so you wait like 3.5 seconds for the next swing, then you crit with judgement, and simultaneously get a white hit with a SoC crit! And you would burst at the seems with glee and joy at your huge numbers and luck and watch your target go down to either dead or Hammer of Wrath range, which had a .5 second cast time. (which wasn't a problem, it pwned still)

On rare lucky occasions you would get a triple crit, judge+white+SoC, and it would be like 7k damage instantly. (about 70% of the targets HP)

Those were really fun times to play a ret. No one played them, and eve less were skilled Rets, and no one knew how to handle it or what to expect in a BG. It was glorious!

[Deleted]

Edit: AW + HoW can still give you insane burst, I dueled a ret pala with my friend's deadly geared warrior and the pala had relentless/wrathful, I had 26k hp and 20k of the dmg he did to me was through his 2 HoWs, else I would had taken him.

wait, so you almost beat a 251-264 geared ret paladin using 213 gear? i don't get who is the OP one here and who is the weak one. if equally skilled players using gear 3-4 tiers apart is an even matchup, isn't the higher tiered char the weakest one? what if you were in similar gear?

[morda]

You might run up to someone and and get no SoC proc, so tut.. you get a little white hit, you had almost nothing else to do between Auto attack swings so you wait like 3.5 seconds for the next swing, then you crit with judgement, and simultaneously get a white hit with a SoC crit! And you would burst at the seems with glee and joy at your huge numbers and luck and watch your target go down to either dead or Hammer of Wrath range, which had a .5 second cast time. (which wasn't a problem, it pwned still)

yep that was exactly what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about skill, strategy or Flavour of the Month. I'm talking about class' special way of battle - either hero, or zero.
And that was distinguishing it from playing say, a warrior, or whatever. The only class that was in the same boat was Windfury Shamans, which I terribly miss as well.

Wining in pvp has to come as a result of you knowing what to do at the right time, countering whatever the enemy is doing, and NOT praying to whatever gods for a proc that could win you the game. That is NOT pvp.
Anyways, i'm glad those times are over.

I believe you are an arena player, where class balance and timely used abilities matter. I am not, and I'm sure that am not the only person on the world who enjoyed relaxed Alterac Valley zerging with every class having a unique look. Now everything is homogenized and you can't even say whether it's a mage or a warlock without a pet shooting sparkling bolts of magic stuff I completely understand not everyone agrees with me, fun has different faces, some like BDSM for example.

Still, I miss Seal of Command and silly RNG!

[Baracuda]

wait, so you almost beat a 251-264 geared ret paladin using 213 gear? i don't get who is the OP one here and who is the weak one. if equally skilled players using gear 3-4 tiers apart is an even matchup, isn't the higher tiered char the weakest one? what if you were in similar gear?

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ponke/advanced That's the char I played.

Not to brag but I'm a very skilled warrior and I just thought it was sad that a less skilled but better geared player could beat me in a duel with 77% of his damage from 1 ability.

Edit: I won't say any names but he had an average ilevel of 260, full relentless and bryntroll.

[EndGame]

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ponke/advanced That's the char I played.

Not to brag but I'm a very skilled warrior and I just thought it was sad that a less skilled but better geared player could beat me in a duel with 77% of his damage from 1 ability.

Edit: I won't say any names but he had an average ilevel of 260, full relentless and bryntroll.

This post is just full of win...

Additionally; he probably just popped wings on you. Wings = Hammer anytime. Hammer was nerfed -severely- as a result of it. It's basically the only source of ret burst and a ret can only do it once every 2 min. (It's also dispellable... so in real PVP ret is basically useless).

[Cloux]

No, I would prefer Seal of Blood /Martyr back instead of Seal of Comand.

Hello

After seeing all the lame changes to paladin in last 2 years, I need to share my thoughts and to sigh in despair.
I terribly hate all the "nostalgia" posts considering dungeons and player skills, but this post has to do with both probably, sorry for that.

As for me, I did enjoy the old Seal of Command (chance on hit to deal 70% weapon damage as Holy damage). That was fun - either you get killed because SoC didn't proc, or you instagib something because SoC procced and everything went critical. Ohh that was the fun! I never moaned when I was killed by arcane mages because I knew, if I get close to them - I destroy their fragile selves with my wonderful Seal of Command crit. But if not - they own me, when my bubble is on CD.

Here is a question to all "old" paladins, who played Ret spec in vanilla or BC: what would you prefer, the "old" SoC system (Seal of Casino - either you kill stuff under the duration of Hammer of Justice), or the new system, with a slow flow of damage without high spikes as it did before.

For me, with all the recent changes, Paladin is a boring, no-fun class. Good bye RNG, good bye fun, good bye Ret pally pvp.

P.S. Same goes to Enhancement shamans with 2handers+windfury. Those were my favourite classes and spec combinations.
P.P.S. I mean Battlegrounds when I said pvp. I hate arena

[Ghul]

yeah ret isnt what it used to be anymore, and thats why i switched back to my rogue wich was my first mainchar. rogues are still the same since vanilla and i like that!

[Typhron]

Are you trolling?

'cause if RNG was skill and actually made the game, Aion wouldn't be dead in the water right now. :T

Seriously, I need to know before making an effort to make a serious post.

[Caradinist]

While I haven't played 4.0 and beyond yet... I completely understand the OP on Ret pally.

I started Ret Paladin as my main near the end of BC but before the 3.0 patches (when ret became OP).

My friend and I leveled ret paladins together and pvped together and we LOVED IT.

I completely know what you mean about SoC procs, and getting massive double or triple crits that basically spelled death to anyone.

Barely anyone played Ret then, and it was lolret to all. But it was actually a very playable spec in PvP. FUN too.

You might run up to someone and and get no SoC proc, so tut.. you get a little white hit, you had almost nothing else to do between Auto attack swings so you wait like 3.5 seconds for the next swing, then you crit with judgement, and simultaneously get a white hit with a SoC crit! And you would burst at the seems with glee and joy at your huge numbers and luck and watch your target go down to either dead or Hammer of Wrath range, which had a .5 second cast time. (which wasn't a problem, it pwned still)

On rare lucky occasions you would get a triple crit, judge+white+SoC, and it would be like 7k damage instantly. (about 70% of the targets HP)

Funny because it would pretty much never proc for me when I needed it the most, we had absolutely no consistency in damage. I absolutely hated the old system, Blizzard leaving Ret paladins with abysmal outdated gear, until Tier 6 and beyond was insulting.

That's why no matter how bad the new system is touted as right now, I know deep down, it could be much worse, and that Blizzard is trying to give us a unique playstyle. I don't deny the fact that it's talents are RNG (I still think it's because there were positive results from the 40% Divine Storm reset on (2) set Tier 10 armor is the only reason why we have 40% on talents), but back then, you had so little chances to make damage then.