Arcane VS fire in cataclysm

[Eraina]

Ok so id throght to ask this Question about raiding and heroics in cataclysm is it better to go Arcane or Fire Spec?

[FistfullofBrain]

It's entirely upon your play preference. Fire has a more RNG factor to it, and you need some mana micro with it for a more challenging/fun play experience. Arcane on the other hand is completely self sufficient and face roll. :]

-Fire mage for life!

[Lunataria]

I've been playing arround with fire, and at low crit ratings its not very fun...

arcane is in some ways more fun with smaller mana pools...

that's my 2 cents...

[Sarcasm]

It's entirely upon your play preference. Fire has a more RNG factor to it, and you need some mana micro with it for a more challenging/fun play experience. Arcane on the other hand is completely self sufficient and face roll. :]

-Fire mage for life!

Based on your last comment and closing note, I'm going to assume you've never actually played arcane seriously, and have no real idea how to play it.

[Deleted]

You cant manage your mana as arcane, its just imposible, doin at 4stacks ab for 10k mana... Fire, free scorch - way to raids

[Deleted]

im in full dungeon heroics and going raiding tomorow night and i really dont think arcane is viable - if you want competitive dps you have to burn huge amounts of mana, a four stack arcane blast cost around 11k , my pool is at around 75k , add in a ten minute boss and there is just no way to keep near the top of the meters while holding on to mana

[Sarcasm]

im in full dungeon heroics and going raiding tomorow night and i really dont think arcane is viable - if you want competitive dps you have to burn huge amounts of mana, a four stack arcane blast cost around 11k , my pool is at around 75k , add in a ten minute boss and there is just no way to keep near the top of the meters while holding on to mana

There certainly is a way, and that's by playing arcane properly.

Burn phase (or "spam phase") starts when you're at near-full mana and have your cooldowns ready. You burn your cooldowns, eat through your mana with Arcane Blast until you reach ~30% mana, and then use Evocation to bring yourself back up.

Conserve phase (or "control phase") starts after you've used Evocation and lasts until your cooldowns are up again. During this phase you only stack AB enough so that your mana stays above 85%-90%, and you dump the stacks with AM.


So for competitive DPS you burn large amounts of mana, yes. But the whole idea of the spec is that you're able to get that mana back and control how you spend it.

[Deleted]

There certainly is a way, and that's by playing arcane properly.

Burn phase (or "spam phase") starts when you're at near-full mana and have your cooldowns ready. You burn your cooldowns, eat through your mana with Arcane Blast until you reach ~30% mana, and then use Evocation to bring yourself back up.

Conserve phase (or "control phase") starts after you've used Evocation and lasts until your cooldowns are up again. During this phase you only stack AB enough so that your mana stays above 85%-90%, and you dump the stacks with AM.


So for competitive DPS you burn large amounts of mana, yes. But the whole idea of the spec is that you're able to get that mana back and control how you spend it.

Arcane is not viable for raids now, get over it.

[Sarcasm]

You could have posted "no u" and it would have had about the same amount of impact.

[Menegroth]

Arcane is not viable for raids now, get over it.

Prove it please. Show us the EJ math, raid logs of good players, or something.

[Sanji]

There certainly is a way, and that's by playing arcane properly.

Burn phase (or "spam phase") starts when you're at near-full mana and have your cooldowns ready. You burn your cooldowns, eat through your mana with Arcane Blast until you reach ~30% mana, and then use Evocation to bring yourself back up.

Conserve phase (or "control phase") starts after you've used Evocation and lasts until your cooldowns are up again. During this phase you only stack AB enough so that your mana stays above 85%-90%, and you dump the stacks with AM.


So for competitive DPS you burn large amounts of mana, yes. But the whole idea of the spec is that you're able to get that mana back and control how you spend it.

Wont it be more efficient and a smarter idea to have a starting phase? this way your DPS will be optimal at start and have time to position yourself. I would suggest;

Starting Phase;
Start with stacking AB 3 times and then AM to wear the buff off, redo this untill you go to 70% mana (due you using AM to wear the debuff off you wont lose that fast and quick mana.) At 70 % pop all CDs including mana gem which then takes you back to 100. Then follow the burn phase as Sarcasm said:

Burn phase (or "spam phase") starts when you're at near-full mana and have your cooldowns ready. You burn your cooldowns, eat through your mana with Arcane Blast until you reach ~30% mana, and then use Evocation to bring yourself back up.

In the Conserve Phase, i usually go for 2 stacks of AB. I have only tried this at fights that last about 3 to 5 min. i always been top DPS with this

[Sarcasm]

Wont it be more efficient and a smarter idea to have a starting phase?

The spam phase generally is the starting phase.

I condensed the order of things in to an abridged version, but typically I would open a fight with a 3 stack AB, use PoM for an instant AB, start up AP+MI (I have my MI glyphed so it doesn't use a global when AP is active), eat a mana gem, and start burning through my mana until ~30%, when I use Evocation and then start the conserve phase.

[Deleted]

What exactly you want me to proof, that you cant afford to do enuf dps with 11k manacost for 4th ab, with 70k manapool ?Or that, the fire will pwn you easy on every raid encounter, where adds r ?

[Crackleslap]

I'd go for fire, even if its not the best spec for mages atm which i currently am because well, i like to press more then 2 buttons =] only because i play a
Beast Master Hunter, Feral Druid, Enhancement Shaman, and a Discipline Priest, my reasons why i dont like to press 2 buttons

[takolin]

Prove it please. Show us the EJ math, raid logs of good players, or something.

359 gear - 5 minute fight - tank and spank

Fire: 23.7k dps
Frost: 21.3k dps
Arcane: 20.4k dps

Source: http://www.manoutoftime.org/misc/sc4...359/basic.html


click
Here you can see it in entry gear, 359 gear and 372 gear for several fight lenghts, with or without moving and with or without adds.

Fire reigns the mage specs and arcane tends to be on the last place while frost is the middle spec.


Logs are from Simcraft posted by Lhivera on EJ.

[Deleted]

359 gear - 5 minute fight - tank and spank

Fire: 23.7k dps
Frost: 21.3k dps
Arcane: 20.4k dps

Well i dont think anyone in live has 359 gear. Fire is better as the gear gets better, frost was nerfed and dunno if its worth at lower gear level so arcane seems the best in the low entry gear, but dont get used to it, fire for sure will be better as we progress with the gear.

[takolin]

Well i dont think anyone in live has 359 gear. Fire is better as the gear gets better, frost was nerfed and dunno if its worth at lower gear level so arcane seems the best in the low entry gear, but dont get used to it, fire for sure will be better as we progress with the gear.

Did you bother looking at the 2nd link for entry gear?

Basic blue gear from hcs/JPs/rep (ilvl 346) - same conditions as above:

Fire: 19.4k dps
Frost: 18.1k dps
Arcane: 15.9k dps

Arcane just doesn't cut it.

And that's on a 5 minute tank and spank fight which you rarely do.

Fire also has the advantage of superior mobility with scorches on the move, with a minor dps loss as you're forced to use a number of scorches anyway and the ability to produce a lot more damage on AoE/cleave fights than either frost or arcane due to impacting dots.