Talk to me about Hunter CC

[Kalcheus]

Ok, I admit it fully: I never played before Wrath. Even worse, I didn't hit 80 until ICC 5-mans were out so when I ran heroics I was essentially being carried until my gear (very quickly) caught up with everybody. I knew Cata was reintroducing CC, and even if it wasn't trying to, I knew 5-mans weren't going to be facerolls anymore with the current availability of gear.

So here I am, someone who does not want to be a huntard facing the real possibility of being useless, or worse, a detriment once I start running dungeons (I've spent my time since release simply questing and levelling professions). But I've been thinking about it, and I wanted to run what I've gleaned so far before the mmo-champ community for their thoughts, corrections, etc. (I'm going to speak in declarative sentences in some cases; don't take that to mean that I'm 100% behind the statement, just that it gets obnoxious to add a "- right?" to every statement

Multishot: Obviously never use when mobs are cc'd. I was thinking that you can still use it if you want to misdirect a group to the tank before CC is put on (i.e. to open a fight), but now I'm not so sure. I'm guessing that if you're SV with points in Serpent Spread that any subsequent CC would be broken by the ticks so don't use it then (if this is wrong, please let me know). But I'm also thinking the Pet may become an issue ... I'll talk about this some more below, but will my pet move on to another targets that are CC'd if they had been hit with the multi-shot at the beginning of the fight?

Freezing Trap w/Trap Launcher: Bread and butter CC, learn how to use it where it needs to be used. Ice trap is rendered moot since you're using Freezing Trap; Immolation Trap is ok to use on a target but Explosive Trap and Snake Trap can break CC so do not use. Explosive Trap is something that has been added to BM and MM priority rotations, but it must be remembered that that is for bosses, not mobs, so don't use Explosive Trap <--- that sounds right, right?

Wyvern Sting: If spec'd into Survival, your second main CC effect. Should probably not be used on a mob that you want to save for last because the sting ticks after it ends will prevent additional CC for a short period of time. I think undead used to be immune to Wyvern Sting, is that still the case?

Silencing Shot: An interrupt available for MM. Short duration of the silencing itself does not allow it to replace other forms of CC so better used as an interrupt.

Tranquilizing Shot: While not strictly CC, enrage effects are more dangerous now that the tank isn't overgeared so it should be kept handy and focus shouldn't be allowed to dive too low in case you need it. Obviously this will cause a dip in dps but during mob battles a hunter's first priority should not be to maximize dps.

Distracting Shot: A more active kind of CC in which the Hunter offers himself up, usually to save the healer. Feign Death afterwards is dumb because then the mob just goes back to the healer. Ideally you'll be able to misdirect to tank, disengage, throw off a money shot, and the mob will leave you both alone. Another option is to use your pet to kite the mob back to the tank where hopefully he/she can pick it up (gets you firing your good shots again faster than simply running back to the tank, but can get tricky to get used to doing). Freezing trap can also be useful if off cooldown, just make sure you're not going to immediately hit the mob with a shot and break it. Can also be used to kite a boss/mob off the tank if necessary, although I would think this is something that is prediscussed and not something you do on the fly.

Pet Control: Never have pet on aggressive. Turn off Growl, Taunt (if you've brought your Shale Spider with you), Thunderstomp (ditto), etc., before you even start the dungeon. Make sure those commands are available, tho, if you do need them. Until comfortable with cc situations, keep your pet on passive and just click attack on the mob you want it to go after. I'm wondering if it's worthwhile in this situation to bind via macro a pet attack command to one of your "big" shots to make sure the pet stays on the mob you're targetting ... but then again, if I need to switch targets for some reason (the distracting shot scenario above) I may be pulling my pet off the target I want it gnawing on, so probably not worthwhile.

Pets themselves:
Silithids (BM), Spiders, and Dogs all have rooting effects, although they are short duration. May be useful for slowing down a mob, especially if being kited.
Nether Rays and Moths have silence/interrupt effects, also of short duration. Don't know how useful they would be though, even if Hunter is not spec'd MM, with the number of silences/interrupt effects in the game.
Chimaera (if BM): single target slow effect. Again may be useful for single-target kiting.
Wasps/Bats/Monkeys can stun or blind, but very short duration and single target.
Foxes and Tallstriders: Good for helping the tank fighting multiple physical damage mobs, although unless petopia is wrong, the fox attack is way better than the tallstrider one - to the point where I don't know why you'd even bother with a tallstrider.
Sporebat also have a mob reduction effect, but in this case on casters. However, it's a very small range (6yds) so unless the casters are somehow clumped together probably won't be very useful except on single targets. Corehounds have a similar effect, but that's strictly on single targets (although it's a ranged attack rather than an area attack, so it might be useful against that one caster that thinks it's too good to join the rest of the mobs).



Ok, I think that's all I got. Please, please PLEASE don't hesitate to tell me where I'm wrong or what I've missed.

[Cossa]

I'd say this is pretty complete, the only thing I noticed missing was scatter shot, which despite its crappy range can be used before launching a freezing trap (right after the tank pulls) to ensure a good location for the CC away from the action.

Alternately, if you can distracting shot the mob, and pull it out of the fighting area (note that if it's a caster this will only work with clever silencing), towards you and trap it there, then AoE can be safely used.

I try to always opt for CCing targets away from the fighting. If survival, try to save Wyvern for if something breaks (I'm looking at you rogue saps), being able to instantly CC a mob is lifesaving. Also remember you can freeze two targets once the CD is reset, or just refreeze your same target to get LnL and refresh the duration.

[Narfwak]

Uh, it's pretty obvious what you do, really. Freeze + Chimera Shot is more than most DPS specs can provide for 5-man CC. Do those and people will like you.

[Xerdux]

I am survival and I camoflague to be a 100% sure I get the trap on the right spot, trap launch it and then Wyvern sting the second add we're going to kill. CC has been fine for me and dps is amazing, only a Frost DK has beaten me so far (but they top world of logs).

[XanderJS]

Seems like you've got everything covered. I'm always being brought along as a SV hunter for instances because of the added CC abilities.
Generally we have a dedicated 5 man team in our guild atm so organising is easy but it's rarely the case in randoms. I always ask for mobs to be tagged if they want them CC'd (although after a while you'll just know anyway).
I always make sure I use my Freezing trap when CC-ing if poss, I save Wyvern for if I see a CC break somewhere or if a caster hasnt been picked up and is just randomly firing into the group.
As your trap will aggro the group I always trap, then MD to the tank. Then when the group has moved from the CC'd mob I just hit Multi and watch them insta aggro the tank, this way not only does he get the aggro from the group with the multi shot but also at least one tick of the serpeant spread. After that it's just picking a focus and pew pew pew, I very rarely have aggro issues that way. The way I see it, if you cant use Multi shot on a pack then its the tanks fault for not moving the pack properly. If multi is gonna break it then anyone elses is going to!

As for the pets, I have a macro with my Hunters Mark that sends my pet after the target at the same time, your pet will stay with that mob until it dies and then you can just mark the next one. Your only using the GCD for the Mark so your not really losing much if anything. Dont worry about your pets breaking CC either (Unless they have an AoE but why would you be using one that does in an Instance/Raid anyway?), the pet wont attack anything you've CC'd the only issue you may have is them charging head first into the pack when your trap goes off (It'll goto the trapped mob but not attack it). But again if your quick enough changing tarfet and using the the Mark/Pet attack macro it really shouldnt be an issue.

We did BRC HC today and when we got to Beauty I was basically CCing all the adds for the duration. We started by having our rogue sap one of them, I trapped one and WS the last, then I MD'd the tank with an ES and got into position. Once WS only had a few seconds left I broke the CC myself, kited him for the 6 secs it takes to tick the damage and then trapped him. After that I was just watching my CD's on the traps and whenever it came off a launched at the next mob in the que. Smooth as you like and really made me feel good to be a hunter!

We are CC kings!

[Kalcheus]

Thanks for the responses so far!

A couple followup questions:
When I made my comments about not using AOE, I was also thinking of other class CC effects such as sap or sheep - it didn't occur to me that the tank would move the group away from the CC'd mobs (I told you I started in WotLK!). So if the tank is on board and moving the non-CC'd mobs away, then AOE is viable. Good to know.

Regarding Scatter Shot, that didn't occur to me because I was thinking I would CC before the tank pulled, i.e., while not near anyone. I haven't played with Camo yet, so I kinda forgot about it. So if I'm reading this correctly, a viable strat is to Camo, move next to the mob I'm about to CC, tank initiates action, scatter shot my target and put down the freezing trap. I'm thinking this could be macro'd, right?

The Mark/Attack macro is interesting, but I'm really, really afraid I'd send my pet in before we were ready. I can work on that

Misdirect before trapping is good to know, I didn't realize it generated aggro.

Question: what pets are you typically using? Are you going by the flowchart? I'm thinking Fox is probably the best help for mob pulls because it'll help keep the tank alive if there are multiple mobs beating on him.

Thanks again.

[Nwx]

Took a quick glance at this, thanks homepage box. Anyhow, I remember me and my brother running the heroics of TBC while they were quite fresh(read:new). Me as a warrior, he as the hunter. Besides from the BM-DPS-MACRO-OF-DOOM(although that might've been a patch later) he managed to cc quite well.
On the topic of trapping and such,when the tank pulled(ranged[faire/gunshot]) he simply took a shot at his mob and had it go straight for him. Blam, it's frozen from the trap he had placed. Seemed simple enough for me as the wailing zerker warrior, although it was possibly the coolest thing ever to my brother.
This whole traplauncher thing seems fancy and all, but I don't think there's really a need to go that distance. Atleast it's what worked for us back in those days, and the mentality of Cata seems quite "retro/vintage to me" (havn't bought it yet ;P).
Anyhow, my point is that you don't overcomplicate things. A shot at your assigned trap, have a trap at your feet. Fire n´forget so to speak.
Then repeat with second Wyvern or something shot. Get it out of the group and have it cc´d the easiest way.
Takes a bit of practice, but to me that is what makes this game enjoyable. Rise to the level of the game, not have it lower itself to your.

[harky]

Nwx, the danger in that is that some mobs don't come directly to you. It could be a charging mob and get a charge + swing at you and kill you instantly. Or worse it could be a mob which likes to buff when it's aggro'd. Or it could be a caster with no nearby LoS. There are a number of issues that can come up that Trap Launcher solves. It also allows Hunters some extra style points. If you know the path a certain mob will take you can launch a trap into that path, but not onto the mob. You then wait and launch a trap at a second mob to pull the group and Wyvern a third. The first mob will walk into the first trap on pull and you'll have CC'd three targets by yourself. Just because you're given a crutch doesn't mean you have to lean on it.

[Cossa]

Misdirect before trapping is good to know, I didn't realize it generated aggro.

Question: what pets are you typically using? Are you going by the flowchart? I'm thinking Fox is probably the best help for mob pulls because it'll help keep the tank alive if there are multiple mobs beating on him.

Thanks again.

Just to clarify, the misdirect before the pull doesn't change the threat generated from the trap, but a trap followed by a disengage and a quick multi-shot or two will keep the mobs running toward your tank and put you in position.

Also scatter will take you out of stealth, so for most CCs I choose either to wait till the pull then run in and scatter and launch-freeze, or a lot of tanks are requesting trap pulls, in which case you just need to camo + launch-freeze, then feign and let your tank drag the rest away.

Also remember the order of CCs: rogues always have to go first, out of combat, followed by hunters (sometimes on the pull), with shammys, mages, rets, etc CCing the leftovers in combat/after pull.

And for pets I usually keep a wolf and cat for the missing buff, a turtle in case I need a tank, and a fox to help the tank (depending on what type of tank).

[tibben]

With pet control, one thing I like to do is bind pet attack to hunter's mark when I'm playing survival. That way not only do I command my pet to attack what I'm attacking, but I get up an incredibly important atk power buff with the same keystroke. It's not anything fancy, but it works well for me.

[Garam]

Thanks for the responses so far!

A couple followup questions:
When I made my comments about not using AOE, I was also thinking of other class CC effects such as sap or sheep - it didn't occur to me that the tank would move the group away from the CC'd mobs (I told you I started in WotLK!). So if the tank is on board and moving the non-CC'd mobs away, then AOE is viable. Good to know.

Regarding Scatter Shot, that didn't occur to me because I was thinking I would CC before the tank pulled, i.e., while not near anyone. I haven't played with Camo yet, so I kinda forgot about it. So if I'm reading this correctly, a viable strat is to Camo, move next to the mob I'm about to CC, tank initiates action, scatter shot my target and put down the freezing trap. I'm thinking this could be macro'd, right?

The Mark/Attack macro is interesting, but I'm really, really afraid I'd send my pet in before we were ready. I can work on that

Misdirect before trapping is good to know, I didn't realize it generated aggro.

Question: what pets are you typically using? Are you going by the flowchart? I'm thinking Fox is probably the best help for mob pulls because it'll help keep the tank alive if there are multiple mobs beating on him.

Thanks again.

I wouldn't use Multi-Shot to begin with. You do much better single target damage.

You can't macro Scatter Shot/Trap. You'd be better off using separate keybinds for Scatter/Trap Launcher/Trap. Having them all together screws the macro up since they're on the GCD. At least, two of them are.