[prot] reforging for 5man heroics

[hlx]

hi all,

I have this question on my mind recently regarding reforging:
I am gearing my tank to run heroics. Currently I'm in mostly 333 blues with some 346 and few 325. Yesterday I was sitting on 140k HP buffed. I'm almost expertise capped and got only 4% hit and here comes the issue:
I *feel* I still don't have enough stat budget to justify reforging. If I was to reforge for hit cap then I'm loosing parry/dodge. So maybe stay with current hit and reforge for mastery? Currently my health doesn't fell that spiky as maybe two days ago but still I need to pop some defensive cooldowns on larger trash pulls (usually when CC failed)

What do you guys think? Should I justify dodge/parry to get more hit (I don't have problems with threat, occasionally some DPS peals off me one mob)? Should I start reforging to mastery? Or leave stuff as it is with my current stats.
Here is my armory link (currently site is down)

help me fellow paladins! (all feedback much appreciated)

[Deleted]

Hitcap shouldnt be needed in heroics, if you get a proper start on the boss (DP/wings/SotR) your threat should be just fine after that. Dont sacrefice your avoidance for hit at this point is my best bet.

If you happen to pick up some dps part for tanking (hello lack of tank-relics) you could just reforge crit/haste into hit.

Good luck!

[texaport]

Are you having threat problems?

I run seal of insight and have mastery reforged on every piece and never have threat problems so no need to gear for hit/expertise. At this stage in tanking heroics, survivability > dps/threat and if you're not having any threat problems then survivability and healer mana are key.

[hlx]

Are you having threat problems?

I do have to work a bit for threat but it is nothing I can't handle and nowhere near to what I would call "problems"
so thanks for that, makes me a bit more confident to start reforging all I can to mastery

[texaport]

Hit is our best threat stat until cap, so if you run across hit/mastery items they're really good tanking items even if DPS is going to want them too.

[hlx]

Hit is our best threat stat until cap, so if you run across hit/mastery items they're really good tanking items even if DPS is going to want them too.

I know, but my issue is that with current stat budget I don't feel like investing in hit when I'm dead on the floor due to lack of avoidance

[texaport]

I have a few hit/mastery pieces I've gotten and reforged 40% of the hit to dodge/parry.

[Quietmode]

I run seal of insight and spam WoG (except first 3HP is ShoR on bosses), ive never had threat problems and I help the heals a lot
Ive managed up to 40% of a groups heals doing this, but im usually about 25% of the heals.

I currently only run with 10expertise (with Seal of insight, 20 with SoT) and 3% hit.

When i go dps seal and dps HP, the highest threat dps is at ~30% of my threat.

Imo Id stick around those numbers for hit and expertise(focus more on expertise unless you taunt a lot), I currently have stacked my gear for mastery and have 42% block with 12% parry and 12% dodge.

[panonadin]

It's simple, if you aren't having threat problems go for stam/mitigation. As soon as you see you are having threat problems on a regular basis, IE DPS creeping up on you throughout a fight then start dropping some mitigation/stam for hit/expertise.

I am currently sitting at 147k UB with 13 and 12 % parry and dodge, 40% block from a lot of mastery reforging. Until dps even get close to my TPS(which they aren't even beginning to touch, that includes about 80% WOG and 20% SoTR), hit/expertise is a non issue. (Waiting for someone to jump in with OMG OMG PARRY HASTING). Find a list of bosses that this affects and use your SoT/Glyph for them, otherwise just stick to SoI.

(All of that is without gems/chants yet as well)

Oh and I'm at 3.1% hit, 10 expertise without SoT up, not a problem in the world.

[hlx]

I absolutely have no threat issues on bosses. some on thrash pulls but thats pretty much manageable
On the other issue: do we at this point love mastery so much that we sacrifice parry/dodge to get more mastery?
Gemming: +stam is the king? or maybe gemming for +mastery works better?

[texaport]

Threat on trash usually isn't gear as much as position and skill usage. I wouldn't worry about trash threat unless DPS is waiting a few seconds and you have them grouped and you're still losing aggro. Also the single best thing I did for holding threat on trash was bind one of the side buttons on my mouse to raidmark skull. If there is 3 mobs being tanked, mark the one you're focusing on and want DPS'd down and if the DPS can follow simple directions they won't pull off you.

On the other issue: do we at this point love mastery so much that we sacrifice parry/dodge to get more mastery?
Gemming: +stam is the king? or maybe gemming for +mastery works better?

I'd say yes because at this point having steady incoming damage is more important than lower overall for healer mana. That being said, I'd reforge everything else before dodge/parry and only reforge those on pieces where they're the only 2 secondary stats. For gemming I've been matching set bonuses because most of the are worth it. Stam in blue, stam/mastery in yellow and stam/parry in red. Stam/parry is a world drop and my now be available on your server but it's a great gem.

[panonadin]

I think it's to early to tell, I would wait until your sitting in your first tier set+epics to start min maxing. The gear that I do have gemmed right now is stam, the occasional hybrid gem to pick up a socket bonus due to the fact that they are so generous right now (30 stam pickups on some)

I wouldn't drop any avoidance for stam, and I wouldn't implement mastery into gems or chants unless you are going for pick ups on socket bonuses like I mentioned. Nothing is really trying to two shot you yet, the HP pool is a nice cushion considering the always present AOE damage mechanic that blizz apparently thought should go into every fight, give your healer(s) time to do some raid healing and get back to you.

[MatsT]

There is little/no need for going for the expertise/hit caps in neither heroics nor raids. You should reforge everything to defensive stats like dodge, parry and mastery. Not sure whcih of those is most powerful for paladins.

[Deleted]

if your having problems keeping threat get your caps 1st, if not then dont bother. remember the more items you get the higher stat budget your gonna get, so any problems you have now will be sorted when u gear up a bit.

[skyesfury]

There is little/no need for going for the expertise/hit caps in neither heroics nor raids. You should reforge everything to defensive stats like dodge, parry and mastery. Not sure whcih of those is most powerful for paladins.

If you're missing too much you won't be generating enough threat. Don't reforge hit. If you're over expertise cap by enough, feel free to reforge that, but as it is, we're not going to be reaching the hit cap via gear.

[snoopdobi]

Sorry for off-topic but what is soft cap for prot paladins (expertise and hit rating) like 28 expertise, 250 hit rating an example.
Thanks in advance

[Steppo]

On the other issue: do we at this point love mastery so much that we sacrifice parry/dodge to get more mastery?
Gemming: +stam is the king? or maybe gemming for +mastery works better?

fact is, our mastery (block) is not touched by diminishing returns like parry/dodge.

Sorry for off-topic but what is soft cap for prot paladins (expertise and hit rating) like 28 expertise, 250 hit rating an example.
Thanks in advance

26 soft cap (dunno exact rating value imo) and 55 hard cap (1652 expertise rating) ; hit is 8% (961 hit rating)

---------- Post added 2010-12-14 at 11:13 AM ----------

also a great resource for this kind of questions is maintankadin (cannot post links yet =), just google)

[texaport]

fact is, our mastery (block) is not touched by diminishing returns like parry/dodge.

Those are not hit by DR until after 20% which we won't be hitting any time soon, most heroics tanks that reforgeing mastery are at roughly 12/12/44 dodge/parry/block.

[Steppo]

Those are not hit by DR until after 20% which we won't be hitting any time soon, most heroics tanks that reforgeing mastery are at roughly 12/12/44 dodge/parry/block.

ah ok, good to know

[hlx]

huzzahs to you, sir!
this was absolutely awesome answer that pretty much explained it all
I hereby award you 3 Internets, use them wisely