[Mechanics] Hasted DoT's and Clipping (4.0.6)

[clyne]

How many seconds till dot runs out is OK? I mean how many seconds before run-out does the new system allow you to through a new dot and "hook" it up to the existing dot?? for example given the this scenario what is the right thing to do:

I am DPS'ing a my target.. ISF is about to run out.. 4 sec left, but immolate is also about to run out, now according to my priority, should I wait one seconds without casting anything or shell I immediately renew immolate so it dosnt run out at all and cast SF in sequence right after?. I might even be able to renew a DoT at 5 sec and still be given max DPS, what do I know.. The most obvious of this I think is shown with renewal of haunt since your renewal at 3 sec do not cancel the end effect nor animation.

I also find renewing ISF annoying... since its not overwritting my existing buff and renews the time. I have to manually remove it(which takes to much time) or time the projectile impact exactcly when it hits the target. Does anyone have a workaround on this or you just play along? To bad buffs dosnt work in the same manner as dots

[gualdhar]

if you are 0.000000000000001 seconds after the second to last dot, you can cast without worrying about clipping. With a non-hasted Immolate (5 ticks, 15 second duration) any time with less than three seconds remaining on immolate is fine. It can be 2.9999999999999 seconds left or 0.000000000000001.

If ISF has 4 seconds left its not really "about to run out". You have enough time to cast another spell (like immolate) and still get off a hard-cast Soul Fire and have it land shortly after ISF expires. Basically, if you have enough time to get off a different spell and still get the improved cast time for Soul Fire, do it that way. Then cast something with a short cast time that isn't a dot (Conflag, CB, even Incincerate) while you're waiting for Soul Fire to land and proc ISF, then go on casting.

The ICD is going away in 4.0.6, but in general you don't want to "click it off" as the interal cooldown is still up whether you have the buff or not (try casting Soul Fire when you've got 2 seconds left on Bloodlust, then cast it right when bloodlust wears. The internal cooldown for ISF would have activated, but because of bloodlust you don't get the buff until you recast Soul Fire 15 seconds later)

[gherkin]

Get an addon that shows you Ticks on the timer bar, and when the bar is between 0 and the last tick line, you are safe to recast. Protip: If the spell has a cast time, set it up so it finishes casting in this section of the timer, but start sooner.

[gherkin]

4.0.6 Updated

[Duskstorm]

Semi-pro tip: Only worry about clipping dots if you're a badass. If you're a mediocre (or even just "good"), you'll probably end up so focused on timing your dot clippings that your raid awareness will truly suffer.

[Jenerena]

Nah, it takes no more awareness than doing it normally really. It's watching when a dot fall off versus watching a dot get to x seconds left.

As for the update, I don't think I'll be reaching 2.5k haste anytime soon. I've never even reached 2k yet.

[Deleted]

I thought we were getting new haste caps for Immolate? Or is that just me making up stuff in my head? It seems pretty much impossible to reach the 30% haste without the 15% haste on ISF we have now?

[Doomcloud]

2434 for goblin is fairly reachable.. 2588 is near impossible without full BiS (or gemming 40 haste gems)

Problem basically stems from the lack of haste/hit epics.

[vo1os]

With new Inferno demonology immo is based on 7 ticks (+6 sec).

Rounded and added +2 to rating to avoid calculation error:

	Unbuffed	Dark Intent Only  	 Raid + Dark Intent	Raid + Dual-DI
0,07	916		516			 -118			-488
0,21	2745		2292			 1573			1154
0,36	4574		4068			 3265			2797
0,50	6404		5844			 4956			4439

e

Also agony is only usable in affliction and has base 14 ticks with glyph.

And the clipping best zone is actually between {Cast_time} and {Tick duration}+{Cast_time}. {Cast_time} for instand dots = 0.
For example at 50% haste UA has 8 ticks, 1 sec casttime and 15/8=1,875 duration.
Best interval to recast is between 1 sec and 2,875 sec remaining. Recasting it at >2,9 is a tick loss (not a good idea), but recasting at <0.9 is uptime loss (not ideal, but much better than loosing a tick)

An excel-file for calculations for lazies XD
rapidshare*com/files/446184266/DotHasteEn.xls
replace * with "."

[gherkin]

I thought we were getting new haste caps for Immolate? Or is that just me making up stuff in my head? It seems pretty much impossible to reach the 30% haste without the 15% haste on ISF we have now?

The old haste caps for Immolate were to reach 50%. This one is to reach 30%.

@Vo1os
I'll update my spreadsheets with your info and post it soon. Thanks for the comments.

[Deleted]

This is probably the wrong thread to bring this up in, but what are you supposed to do as a Destruction Warlock after the patch, then? Go for haste as much as possible to reach the 30% cap? That's, just like a few posts up said, pretty much impossible. Should one just stack crit after 10%?

[vo1os]

I'll update my spreadsheets with your info and post it soon. Thanks for the comments.

It's a big honor ! XD
But don't hurry. First i'd like to test it when it'll be live - who knows what blizzard brings us )
I think this wednesday after work will give the 100% result

[Deleted]

You can clip ticks and not loose DPS from the dot, but clipping it early is a DPS loss.

Over the course of a fight, refreshing a DoT 1 second too early would add up to time you could spend casting an extra couple of shadowbolts/incinerates, which is a decent dps increase.

[gherkin]

This is probably the wrong thread to bring this up in, but what are you supposed to do as a Destruction Warlock after the patch, then? Go for haste as much as possible to reach the 30% cap? That's, just like a few posts up said, pretty much impossible. Should one just stack crit after 10%?

It's not impossible, just hard. With the removal of ISF, Haste's value has increased.
Hit the 10% mark and stay there, then run Simcraft on yourself. Use these scale factors to pick gear, but once you're in all purples, run it again and change your strategy.

There's not so much choice out there right now that you can decide to gear one way or another.

[Jenerena]

I ran a PTR simcraft as destro yesterday and at 2037 haste, crit and mastery are both scaling higher than haste now. I am sceptical, but I'm going to reforge some things through chardev and check again at some point. So yea, definitely keep simcrafting yourself - scaling is so dependant on even small changes in stats.

[gherkin]

At 2037 Haste, you are below the cusp of the extra immolate tick after SimCraft adds on the extra 300 Haste rating for calculating scale factors. This means you are spending more time refreshing Immolate in these sims for no extra damage.

Use an override to push you into the next tick. The dps gain from having more Crit/Mastery for a bit vs ignoring this and just pushing that next haste plateau.
scale_haste_rating=500
would work best I believe.

[Jenerena]

I'm not sure I understand you, I thought I needed 2587 haste to push the next tick, so where's the extra 300 come from? I thought scale factors were calculated on a point for point basis? So I'm using more globals in a fight for no extra DPET because I haven't quite got enough for the extra tick? I have no way of gaining any more haste from my gear put it that way.

[gherkin]

Simcraft scaling is current gear + 300 of a stat. Average dps of New - Average dps of Original / 300 = Point for Point scale factor.

Then yes, you should probably stop stacking haste (if you have a hit surplus that is, I dont) and go for whatever simcraft is indicating is higher for you - crit or mastery.

You're at the point where Haste starts to devalue due to the shortened duration of immolate.

[Jenerena]

Ah right makes sense - I've always been curious how it calculates.

I'll run some profiles tomorrow for both demo/destro and see if reforging or restoring haste on my gear (1 or 2 pieces at a time) to crit or mastery (depending on spec) gives me an increase. Thankfully I won't have the HoG issues anymore as of tomorrow (yes I'm from EU) so that's one less thing to worry about (not that I even had any issues with 2k haste anyway).

[Veev]

Kinda confused... to get 2 extra ticks of corruption you need 25% haste. To get 25% haste with just DI you say you need 2736 haste rating.

And to get 3 extra ticks on agony you need 20.834% haste (less than above), but require 3254 haste rating (more than above)?