Warlocks - Now Tanks?

[Yeahbra]

I was just thinking, effectively with all the new changes in MoP and all the new Lock changes to there health regen, they are going to be even MORE hard to kill then before? Thoughts, please no trolling, just want some thoughts on this.

[Deleted]

I think it sound excellent. Very unique actually! Not blood-dkish, but yeah.. unique!

[Abysal]

To early to say. We don't know how damage is going to scale with health yet. From Lich to Cata, Health pools of players increased from 20kish for non tanks to over 100k. DPS certainly didn't increase by over 500% though. It's more like 250-300%. If they continue with that trend, then yes the health regen will make warlock self heals OP, but if damage increases at a more even rate with health this time, then we'll be dying relatively faster and the added health regen will be needed to survive.

[Berri]

Looks pretty awesome actually; imagine some of these mechanics in PvP - I think warlocks will be hard to handle for quite a while actually :P

As Abysal said though, it all depends on how damage and health scale this expansion: if people are doing a lot more damage, then it probably won't be so ridiculous for locks to have this regen.

Really love the new demons though; makes the class more interesting in my opinion

[Zeldorian]

it seams plauseble but as its been said it deppends on evrything ells when it comes to class changes befor anything can be determend

[Xezee]

From Lich to Cata, Health pools of players increased from 20kish for non tanks to over 100k. DPS certainly didn't increase by over 500% though. It's more like 250-300%.

This is not true. ICC, last tier ppl were doing 4k up to 12+ with 30% buff and heroic gear. I believe 8k w/o ICC buff was quite solid for that time. As for now, static fight dps spreads from 28 to 40k over 5 mins. However, with trinkets / procs being far different from WotLK, burst dps can reach absurd values. Even considering resilience, I see no difference in pvp dynamics atm, ppl are "disappearing" in seconds, burned down before stuns end like they did in 3.3. Note, that this is not even last tier and, at this point already, resilience scales much worse than dps.

[Abysal]

This is not true. ICC, last tier ppl were doing 4k up to 12+ with 30% buff and heroic gear. I believe 8k w/o ICC buff was quite solid for that time. As for now, static fight dps spreads from 28 to 40k over 5 mins. However, with trinkets / procs being far different from WotLK, burst dps can reach absurd values. Even considering resilience, I see no difference in pvp dynamics atm, ppl are "disappearing" in seconds, burned down before stuns end like they did in 3.3. Note, that this is not even last tier and, at this point already, resilience scales much worse than dps.

Not true huh?

40,000/12,000=3.33 or 333% increase.

40,000 is a number that is vary rarely hit. 12k was the ceiling for burst in Lich. If we want to use realistic numbers,

28k/8k= 3.5 or 350% increase

Health pools:

120k/20k=6 or 600% increase. I understated the gain in health. It didn't scale in a uniform manner Xezee. Health OBVIOUSLY increased proportionally more then DPS.

You can debate my numbers all you want, but with stamina scaling with gear as well, I don't see raw damage ever getting up to the 600 to 700% increase that health has for DPSers. And the next tier might bring stamina up to 800% (160k for DPS) who knows.

Edit: I don't know if Locks could hit 12k burst but I know for a fact DKs could in WotLK.

[Yeahbra]

Definetly will depend on the health pool difference but they are going to be quite a b**** to handle in arena now but it does matter on what everyone else's damage, healing and all of that is in MoP

[rijn dael]

Cata has seen a lot of our healing reduced - while other classes gained it.

Whether this implies we are going to increase personal healing again - or they will remove base healing-by-damage, it will end up balanced anyway - without all the facts in terms of what spells will and won't make it into live, it doesn't really mean much. (Fel Armour, siphon life, etc).

From the live stream, it was mentioned they are hoping to go backwards a bit, to the feel of glasscannon mages with lots of escapes/cc, and tankier warlocks with fewer escape/control options, but more survival focus.

[Destroman]

Back in ICC I did 11k dps stable on my lock pre hc gear as destruction

[6kle]

Alpha and release versions are always worlds apart. You shouldn't expect being stronger than other classes even if things look that way now before any testing has been done. What you should really hope for is that you get stuff that is fun while not overpowered.

[Deleted]

Not true huh?

40,000/12,000=3.33 or 333% increase.

40,000 is a number that is vary rarely hit. 12k was the ceiling for burst in Lich. If we want to use realistic numbers,

28k/8k= 3.5 or 350% increase

Health pools:

120k/20k=6 or 600% increase. I understated the gain in health. It didn't scale in a uniform manner Xezee. Health OBVIOUSLY increased proportionally more then DPS.

You can debate my numbers all you want, but with stamina scaling with gear as well, I don't see raw damage ever getting up to the 600 to 700% increase that health has for DPSers. And the next tier might bring stamina up to 800% (160k for DPS) who knows.

Edit: I don't know if Locks could hit 12k burst but I know for a fact DKs could in WotLK.

Last time our guild went to kill Rotface for the achievemenet, so turning the fight into a Patchwerk style fight, I managed to pull 18k sustained as destro.
More on the topic, i don´t mind having nice resources for self healing but i´d rather like more burst so i don´t have to rely on self healing ^^. PVP perspective i mean.

[Deleted]

The self healing talents in MoP are not designed to make us the new DK soloers at lvl 90. We can't take the hits DK's can and the healing no where near makes up for that. As I think GC said at Blizzcon, Warlocks are designed to take a bit of a beating if they pull aggro on some mobs while Mages are designed to slip out of their grasp.

[painweaver]

The self healing talents in MoP are not designed to make us the new DK soloers at lvl 90. We can't take the hits DK's can and the healing no where near makes up for that. As I think GC said at Blizzcon, Warlocks are designed to take a bit of a beating if they pull aggro on some mobs while Mages are designed to slip out of their grasp.

take a bit of a beating if they pull aggro on some mobs.....unless you are secced to pop wtfdemmonpwnage, I guess these mobs he's referring to haven't been put in the game. On another note, basically any mage spec slips out of anythings grasp quite well and always has.

I wouldnt take the numbers on any of those spells from blizzcon literally, or even as etched in stone. they were obviously boated, and exaggerated for what I shall call the "awesome-effect". just to get people's attention and think blizzard actually likes their class or w/e, and gives 2 sh*ts..

[Hellfury]

Ppl dont realize that the passive self healing is probably going away and thats why they are giving us that active healing talents

[Vulryth]

warlocks are already easily killable, stop whining to get us nerfed again ffs

[Gorehowl]

its to balance out the fact that melee will still dominate locks in pvp 1v1 situations. 1v1 is not balanced in anyway nor should it be though.

[Blackrat]

1v1 should be put into consideration as its a format for alot of pvp

[Yeahbra]

warlocks are already easily killable, stop whining to get us nerfed again ffs

I'm not saying omg talents suggest healing lets nerf them i simply was just asking what every ones thought was on the new MoP Warlock talents and whether they are happy with them or not.

[Deleted]

Too early, but i like them because

warlocks are already easily killable, stop whining to get us nerfed again ffs

Yeahbra: I know you didn't complain, but you have 2x OP as option in ur poll. How can something be or "seem" OP if you don't know what the other classes can do and how everything scales? Maybe we will be in desprate need of those (and possibly more) talents.
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1v1 should be put into consideration as its a format for alot of pvp

hmm.. There will never be 1v1 balance so i think it can be ignored. Duels are only for fun and some classes simply kill you, no matter what.