Unholy Rotation Question....

[zito]

I hear referencing an "Ad Hominem argument" only works if you do it correctly.

My fix was not more vague, it was more to the point. When Reaping reads that only Festering Strike can create Death Runes, then your original wording will be right.

How is your fix not vague? I even explain in detail how its vague and you still don't get it. Reason why I keep saying you don't get my points is because YOU DON'T GET MY POINT.

So let me put it in your language:

You

are

VAGUE

[Herald]

Yes it would, but then again so is saying "Make Death Runes". As you have pointed out there are a number of ways to create death runes so simply stating that's what you should be doing is quite a broad explanation. And while I find the back and forth between you and Zito to be somewhat pointless as you're both repeating the same points over and over again I have to admit that Zito's point does have more weight to it. People coming here asking about priority/rotations are looking for specifics, they're not after broad strokes about what they should do. They want to know which attacks to use when, not that they should just use something that creates a death rune with no further explanation.



I don't think stating that you should be using FeS to create death runes if you're in a single target fight, and BB or Pest to create them if you're in an AoE fight is spoonfeeding people. Surely providing a priority in the first place is far more 'spoonfeeding' than differentiating which attacks are best suited in single target and AoE fights.



Given that it seems clear both the OP and Grammar were referencing a single target priority rotation then your fix wasn't more to the point and was more vague. To the point in a single target priority is you use FeS to create your death runes, no exceptions.

And I would rather that people learn how to play a class instead of told specifically what to do such that they're unable to deviate from a linear style of play when faced with the unexpected.

Blizzard tried the hand holding and spoon feeding style for WotLK and it gave birth to the most incompetent playerbase in WoW's history.

[zito]

And I would rather that people learn how to play a class instead of told specifically what to do such that they're unable to deviate from a linear style of play when faced with the unexpected.

Blizzard tried the hand holding and spoon feeding style for WotLK and it gave birth to the most incompetent playerbase in WoW's history.

And you are a prime example, people come to this site to reasearch and ask questions about things they don't know so they can perform well and not fuck up a group, going blindly into a fight knowing nothing about what you should do is plain stupid and I don't think you should say "people need to learn their class on their own" because thats not helping. Giving vague answers to people who ask questions doesn't help them perform better.

[Grammar]

Unlike you, I believe people take the time to read their tooltips if they're truely concerned about maximizing their DPS. Not everyone is retarded, stop assuming they need to be spoonfed what to do.

Accusing someone of being guilty of the assumption that everyone is retarded is definitely a personal attack. Therefore, it is ad hominem, because it does nothing to refute the point that your "correction" is vague, because it is only an attack at Zito.

Furthermore, it is vague.

[Deleted]

And I would rather that people learn how to play a class instead of told specifically what to do such that they're unable to deviate from a linear style of play when faced with the unexpected.

Firstly the fact it's a priority rather than a rotation already forces players to deviate from a linear style of play, you simply can't just go through a rotation like you used to if you wish to be effective. Secondly giving vague advice doesn't help people learn how to play a class; explaining that in a single target encounter they should be using certain attacks to do things and that in AoE encounters they should be using different attacks to do the same things does. It's then upto the player to distinguish between the 2 types of encounters and alter their playstyle accordingly.

[Herald]

And you are a prime example, people come to this site to reasearch and ask questions about things they don't know so they can perform well and not fuck up a group, going blindly into a fight knowing nothing about what you should do is plain stupid and I don't think you should say "people need to learn their class on their own" because thats not helping. Giving vague answers to people who ask questions doesn't help them perform better.

lol

This thread is about using a priority system to construct a rotation. The priority is not to use Festering Strike, it is to create Death Runes. The usual method of creating Death Runes is to use Festering Strike but the player also has the option of using Pestilence and Blood Strike.

Pigeon holing players into using only Festering Strike is misinformation and confusing.

[zito]

lol

This thread is about using a priority system to construct a rotation. The priority is not to use Festering Strike, it is to create Death Runes. The usual method of creating Death Runes is to use Festering Strike but the player also has the option of using Pestilence and Blood Strike.

Pigeon holing players into using only Festering Strike is misinformation and confusing.

yes and telling people just to make death runes is also misinformation and confusing.

[Deleted]

This thread is about using a priority system to construct a rotation. The priority is not to use Festering Strike, it is to create Death Runes. The usual method of creating Death Runes is to use Festering Strike but the player also has the option of using Pestilence and Blood Strike.

Expect there isn't one priority rotation, there's two. One use FeS to create death runes, the other uses BS and Pest. You can't just smash them both together and pronounce that the priority is to 'create death runes'. You examine the nature of the encounter and then pick the appropriate priority.

Pigeon holing players into using only Festering Strike is misinformation and confusing.

Why would you use anything else in a single target encounter (which given the nature of the rotation posted by the OP is what he had been looking at)?

[Soisoisoi]

OP asked for a priority list, not an argument of who can word it better. Stop trying to one-up each other when you're all as bad for creating nearly two pages of "You're vague" - "NO YOU ARE" - "I'M TELLING MY MOM!".

[Herald]

yes and telling people just to make death runes is also misinformation and confusing.

This is true because Reaping has no tooltip... oh wait.

Just admit you're wrong and that you really don't understand how a priority system works. Priority systems actively work against pigeon holing players into using specific abilities at specific times.

---------- Post added 2010-12-15 at 05:35 AM ----------

Expect there isn't one priority rotation, there's two. One use FeS to create death runes, the other uses BB and Pest. You can't just smash them both together and pronounce that the priority is to 'create death runes'. You examine the nature of the encounter and then pick the appropriate priority.

Yes I can. The priority is not to use a specific ability, it's to create Death Runes. That's the priority. From there you have different methods. To fulfill this priority on a single target, you would likely use FeS. To fulfill it in an AoE situation, you would likely use Pest. However, you are not bound to only one method as the original wording by Grammar seemed to assume.

[zito]

This is true because Reaping has no tooltip... oh wait.

Just admit you're wrong and that you really don't understand how a priority system works. Priority systems actively work against pigeon holing players into using specific abilities at specific times.

You make no sense. How am I wrong? How don't I know how the prioirty system works? I never implied or said reaping as no tooltip. Reaping includes blood strike, festering strike, and pestilence. And like I and many other people have said (which you plainly ignore just to see yourself right) saying make death runes doesnt contribute anything to the priority.

People won't know what to use over the other spells blood strike festering strike? Which would be better to use? When should I use them? Should I use festering strike when I have death runes? You are not seeing anything but your answer, think outside the box.

All common mistakes, and providing vague un-informtive answers doesn't help.

[Deleted]

This is true because Reaping has no tooltip... oh wait.

Does the tooltip tell you in what sort of encounters you should be using each of the attacks that can create death runes? Mine certainly doesn't so how exactly is someone who's getting to grips with the class supposed to know to use FeS instead of BS or Pest to create death runes or vice versa when all they've been told is that their priority is to 'create death runes' with no further explanation?

Just admit you're wrong and that you really don't understand how a priority system works. Priority systems actively work against pigeon holing players into using specific abilities at specific times.

Yes it does, but that doesn't mean you have to just give players the minimum amount of information possible and let them fend for themselves. Not telling people what sort of attack to use doesn't prevent pigeon holing or make them better players, to do that you need to explain what abilities to use when and why that's the correct ability to use. Until you've done that you have no hope of stopping pigeon holing, priority system or not.

And that's not to mention that the creation of death runes is less important in an AoE situation as you're going to be using your blood runes on blood boil rather than needing them to be death runes so you can use more scourge strikes.

[Herald]

You make no sense. How am I wrong? How don't I know how the prioirty system works? I never implied or said reaping as no tooltip. Reaping includes blood strike, festering strike, and pestilence. And like I and many other people have said (which you plainly ignore just to see yourself right) saying make death runes doesnt contribute anything to the priority.

People won't know what to use over the other spells blood strike festering strike? Which would be better to use? When should I use them? Should I use festering strike when I have death runes? You are not seeing anything but your answer, think outside the box.

You've done nothing but imply that people cannot read tooltips and think for themselves. There's a fine line between helpful and degrading; between assisting and taking over, between guiding and thinking for them. You crossed it.

[Grammar]

Yes I can. The priority is not to use a specific ability, it's to create Death Runes. That's the priority. From there you have different methods. To fulfill this priority on a single target, you would likely use FeS. To fulfill it in an AoE situation, you would likely use Pest. However, you are not bound to only one method as the original wording by Grammar seemed to assume

If you wanted to PROPERLY fix my list, then you would have split it into two separate lists, one for AoE and one for single target. That list, which you say can be used to fulfill either aoe or single target purposes, is not the correct priority for aoe.

To clarify, generating death runes would fall below DnD for AoE.

[zito]

You've done nothing but imply that people cannot read tooltips and think for themselves. There's a fine line between helpful and degrading; between assisting and taking over, between guiding and thinking for them. You crossed it.

I never imply that people can't read tooltips. To be honest I think you can't read anything or understand what I am saying.

-Reaping includes BS,FS, and Pst

When you said make death runes the question to new people or people who don't know the rotation is what would be better for single target? BS or FS? Saying make death runes doesn't help anything its just vague. Being more specific in detail to peoples questions is more helpful. Not everyone can look at a tooltip and say oh pfft I shouldnt use blood strike I should use festering strike.People might also mistake the statement "make death runes" meaning overwriting existing death runes with more festering or blood strikes.

[Herald]

I never imply that people can't read tooltips. To be honest I think you can't read anything or understand what I am saying.

-Reaping includes BS,FS, and Pst

When you said make death runes the question to new people or people who don't know the rotation is what would be better for single target? BS or FS? Saying make death runes doesn't help anything its just vague. Being more specific in detail to peoples questions is more helpful. Not everyone can look at a tooltip and say oh pfft I shouldnt use blood strike I should use festering strike. Thats never the case and people make that mistake all the time.

You don't see how this implies people can't read tooltips? Really? That's remarkably insulting to the entire DK playerbase.

[zito]

You don't see how this implies people can't read tooltips? Really? That's remarkably insulting to the entire DK playerbase.

No that doesn't imply that people can't read tooltips. Im just going into a more indepth explanation on why you should use festering strike over blood strike and when should you use it. While you give a vague answser and wan't people to figure it out for themselves eventhough the tooltip just says what attacks create deathrunes.

[Herald]

No that doesn't imply that people can't read tooltips. Im just going into a more indepth explanation on why you should use festering strike over blood strike and when should you use it. While you give a vague answser and wan't people to figure it out for themselves eventhough the tooltip just says what attacks create deathrunes.

Exactly, I told them the actual priority as opposed to what move I think they should use. From there they research the tooltips, apply some ingame testing and learn how to play and know why they're doing what they're doing.

You have a different parenting style and I'm confident enough to tell you that in nature vs nurture, nature always produces a stronger flock.

[Grammar]

If your argument had any validity, Herald, it wouldn't be 3v1. As it stands, no one agrees with you, and that is indicative of something pretty significant.

[zito]

Exactly, I told them the actual priority as opposed to what move I think they should use. From there they research the tooltips, apply some ingame testing and learn how to play and know why they're doing what they're doing.

You have a different parenting style and I'm confident enough to tell you that in nature vs nurture, nature always produces a stronger flock.

Yes and I said people can get confused and overwhelmed sometimes so they come to sites like mmo champ to learn about their class and ask questions if they are confused like the OP. Not everyone has the instinct to go from tooltip to tooltip to figure out the rotation (I don't even) so they go looking for help. Providing vague answers doesn't help people who get overwhelmed, stressed or confused.