Retribution Paladins - 4.0.3

[Farjax]

or use that holy strike to really censure the target and make the target unable to use skills for 3s or target's skills deals 20% less damage to the caster paladin for 6s

[Vuagnon]

On a final note, he was referring to a mechanic standpoint, NOT a lore standpoint.

I don't think Paladins are similar with Rogues as of mechanics either. There are so many and huge differences that saying Holy Power bears analogy to Combo Points wouldn't be very accurate.

[t3hj0j0]

Why? You use abilities to charge up "points" to allow the use of attacks or healing, and more the more of whatever it is increases the damage or healing. The real difference is the number of "points" it caps at, how many "point" generation moves there are, and how many "point" consuming abilities there are. Of course it isn't an amazingly accurate description, but there aren't any direct comparisons between classes (even cats and rogues are quite different).

On a different note: I got the Work Breaker 2 days ago (rolling a 29 never felt so good) and finally replaced my 333 weapon. My dps jumped 1k. When Mastery finally becomes useful, it will hopefully jump even more. With the Worm Breaker, I'm also no longer a filler for raids, so I should be improving more gear, to see what that does to my dps.

[Dmchomerun]

TAKE SELFLESS HEALER OUT OF OUR DAMN TREE!!!! Replace it with -

Rapture (2/2) - Burns the enemy with Holy fire, dealing 1600/3200 Holy Damage over 6 seconds. While target is burned, movement speed slowed by 20%.
15 yard range. 12 second cooldown. (replaces Holy Wrath in our rotation so we aren't using an AoE ability to do single target damage. ALSO, gives us a slight snare. So horrible right? It's only 20%, I don't think that is very much to ask for!!!)

Other than the lack of rotation, I also find this to be a large difference from other classes, considering we have (raiding) one dot, that doesn't to bad damage in censure, but...that's it unless you have exorcism glyphed, and even that is not a lot of damage because the DoT is reset with AoW procs so sometimes the enemy doesn't take the full brunt of the DoT, that's my two cents, but I definitely agree with this change and I believe something along the lines of this would be big for our dps as well.

[Underfoot]

- SoT to 3 stacks or stack on special attacks. we have enough build up with this stacking faster since now we got Inquisition to apply aswell so it kinda gets too much especially with fights with allot of switching.

SoT is definitely an outdated mechanic from a time where all retribution was frontloaded with hard cooldowns, and as you said coupling this with Inq makes for some particularly dull target switching.

[Leolis]

Honestly seals just need a huge revamp in general, our fillers need a clean up and our... well hey that about sums it up. Righteousness nlows, justice is meh, truth lol bandaid fix, insight is like the only good seal mechanic wise. In regards to fillers like 80% of what is suggested would work and well yea. Damn tho blizz finds the time to turn spriests into gods but we are left hanging, at least we will be a tad better next patch.

[vacor]

Currently we face quite a few issues for our specialty.

General
Our talent tree feels lackluster compared to other specs/class's. Where is our unique flavor? whats defines Retribution? I feel like a pseudo rogue that is trying to emulate a Arms warrior and failing hard. Where is the interactiveness between our spells and talents? There is none. We have barly anything that compliment skill. In live were a RNG slot machine. In the PTR we are a easy to play class that leaves me half the time bored since the rotation is slow and very easy to adapt to.

PVE
In PVE we are hurt by our reliance on sticking to a single target and heavily requiring total time on target for optimium chance of maximum output.
( seal of truth, and exorcism being based off auto attacks )
We are also very heavily dependent on our weapon and its quailty more so then most class's due to our finisher and generator of holy power being based of weapon damage.

PVP
My personal feelings about PVP is that each spec/class should have a defining strength( or mutiple ones) and weakness.
I cant find any Strength of a PVPret besides a utilty bot with hands/cleanse.
I can find mutiple glaring weakness, namely our weakness to dispels and our weakness to being kited.
We dont provide heavy offensive pressure, we dont really have a way to peel targets. We just become another meatbag that is slowed, kited and killed then LOL at for the near free HK.

Now I must ask, when I create long post such as this one, the quick reply box seems to want to continually scroll up which is quite frustrating. Is there a reason behind this and if so what is the solution?

[Arganaut]

I get the same Vacor but not just on quick reply. Get's annoying in the end. I make my post on a notepad file and copy and paste into here :- )

[Leolis]

Honestly one way to go is work with the seals, like bring back command but like tag on 70% wep as holy damage for each melee single target attack. And have its judgement place a debuff that makes all attacks against the target have a 10% chance to reduce all cds you have by 1 second. Now all the other seals would need some looking at and i know 70% as holy is allllooooootttt but at this point seeing other dps classes and how they operate this would put us on par no joke. And while we are on too much damage look at the spriests buffs lol, yup all i gotta say is better filler and higher seal damage.

[deathtrigger]

Honestly one way to go is work with the seals, like bring back command but like tag on 70% wep as holy damage for each melee single target attack. And have its judgement place a debuff that makes all attacks against the target have a 10% chance to reduce all cds you have by 1 second. Now all the other seals would need some looking at and i know 70% as holy is allllooooootttt but at this point seeing other dps classes and how they operate this would put us on par no joke. And while we are on too much damage look at the spriests buffs lol, yup all i gotta say is better filler and higher seal damage.

to an extent, i agree. Both warriors and dks bypass armour better than we do and were supposed to be the 'holy' damage dealers. only makes sense for most of the damage we do is holy and not physical

btw by making seal do 70% holy damage u was talking about 'of the damage' not on top of lol cos that was be wayy OP if it was on top of normal damage. Seals need to be more game-changing than just increases damage/healing by this much. It needs to be more like what op stated. It should enhance gameplay.

Some ideas would be eg.
Seal 1 (dd): Converts 60/70% of all physical damage done by special melee attacks into holy damage (not sure if it should scale with inquisition). Also does current SoT effect.

Seal 2 (tank): Increases all threat generated by % (righteous fury built in) and reduces all damage taken by 6% (Sanctuary talent built in). (Welcome any other special effects people suggest for this one)

Seal 3 (pvp dd): Current SoJ effect. Also converts 40/50% of your single target special attacks (physical) into holy damage. In addition, whenever you are slowed or snared you gain 1 HP (open for better suggestions, i know soo many possibilities are out there. Or even talents in ret tree to make SoJ do something special as spec only as only ret needs its mobility buffed tbh)

Seal 4 (heal): current SoI effect. also reduces the cast time of HL, and DL by 0.5 sec (clarity of purpose talent)


EDIT: also is it just me or is it hard to keep inquisition up in pvp now on prt :S i think its another issue that needs looking at especially if mastery scales with it

[Leolis]

I was mentioning wep damage as holy damage but what ever works lol, seriously the class spec was all passive damage, the moment that was taken away it really hit the fan, i mean im all for active damage and what not but the way it was done they can easily go back and buff seals somehow and then take ds and make it a filler or take judgement and tweak it or how and bam its fixxed, so damn easy to fix this as a whole and it just hasnt been happening :S

[Nienniora]

It should enhance gameplay.

Tbc called and it said people didnt like it that way, see judgement/seal pre-wrath.
Personally i think the system was mostly fine except lacking a few attack and a damage tweak.

[Leolis]

Tbc called and it said people didnt like it that way, see judgement/seal pre-wrath.
Personally i think the system was mostly fine except lacking a few attack and a damage tweak.

Only due to no rotation at the time and everything was based off passive then they take the passive away per se and over do it with full holy damage in early wrath then take nearly all the passive away and holy damage and then we have now, all active but little holy to mesh with it. I say with next build upcoming bring back some seal damage and a good consistant filler and we are good to go, and revamp soj to act as a pvp/pve situational seal.

[rad586]

to an extent, i agree. Both warriors and dks bypass armour better than we do and were supposed to be the 'holy' damage dealers. only makes sense for most of the damage we do is holy and not physical

btw by making seal do 70% holy damage u was talking about 'of the damage' not on top of lol cos that was be wayy OP if it was on top of normal damage. Seals need to be more game-changing than just increases damage/healing by this much. It needs to be more like what op stated. It should enhance gameplay.

Some ideas would be eg.
Seal 1 (dd): Converts 60/70% of all physical damage done by special melee attacks into holy damage (not sure if it should scale with inquisition). Also does current SoT effect.

Seal 2 (tank): Increases all threat generated by % (righteous fury built in) and reduces all damage taken by 6% (Sanctuary talent built in). (Welcome any other special effects people suggest for this one)

Seal 3 (pvp dd): Current SoJ effect. Also converts 40/50% of your single target special attacks (physical) into holy damage. In addition, whenever you are slowed or snared you gain 1 HP (open for better suggestions, i know soo many possibilities are out there. Or even talents in ret tree to make SoJ do something special as spec only as only ret needs its mobility buffed tbh)

Seal 4 (heal): current SoI effect. also reduces the cast time of HL, and DL by 0.5 sec (clarity of purpose talent)


EDIT: also is it just me or is it hard to keep inquisition up in pvp now on prt :S i think its another issue that needs looking at especially if mastery scales with it

Seal of Fury says hi! It was removed from the game in patch 1.9. Righteous Fury replaced it, so it would be kinda strange to replace it back with slightly modified Seal of Fury

[Baekhyun]

Anyone else finds t frustrating that in BG when we get outnumbered, there´s nothing we can do but to die? Most classes have some kind of escape mechanism (Heroic Leap, Intervene, Blink, Vanish, Invisibility, Disengage etc.), as a Paladin however, all you can do is spam Cleanse for a few seconds (Because snares gets applied so quickly) until oom and target someone far away and Judgement for a minor speed boost.

I really wish we could get something like this to actually survive rather than just get stun locked to death once we get targeted by 2-4 Players.

Edit: I really miss the old Seals. The old system was a bit clumy but currently Seals don´t play such a big part, I feel Seals are supposed to be our 'speciality' and really hope they bring them back like that in some way.

[rad586]

I miss Sanctity Aura and Seal of the Crusader

[deathtrigger]

Seal of Fury says hi! It was removed from the game in patch 1.9. Righteous Fury replaced it, so it would be kinda strange to replace it back with slightly modified Seal of Fury

they probs removed it cause of this: Unleashing this Seal's energy will judge an enemy for 30 seconds, causing Holy damage spells cast on that enemy to generate additional threat. Only one Judgement per Paladin can be active at any one time.

would mean all pallys threat on the target will increase not just the tank himself :P

[belfpala]

they probs removed it cause of this: Unleashing this Seal's energy will judge an enemy for 30 seconds, causing Holy damage spells cast on that enemy to generate additional threat. Only one Judgement per Paladin can be active at any one time.

would mean all pallys threat on the target will increase not just the tank himself :P

Don't be silly, paladins stand in the back of the raid and are only there to buff and heal.

Anyway...

What if CS had no cooldown, judgment was only used for its procs or as a ranged filler, and HW was turned into an actual AoE ability?

[rad586]

Don't be silly, paladins stand in the back of the raid and are only there to buff and heal.

Anyway...

What if CS had no cooldown, judgment was only used for its procs or as a ranged filler, and HW was turned into an actual AoE ability?

1 1 1 2 1 1 1 3 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 3 1 1 1 2 4 1 1 1 3 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 3 1 1 1 2 4 .......
Not much better We NEED more buttons to press in our normal single target rotation

[belfpala]

1 1 1 2 1 1 1 3 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 3 1 1 1 2 4 1 1 1 3 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 3 1 1 1 2 4 .......
Not much better We NEED more buttons to press in our normal single target rotation

But I wanted to faceroll

Yeah, we do need more buttons. We either need another strike (as has been discussed) or HoW needs to become a main rotation ability (with extra damage against targets below 20%, as has been discussed), or both. Both actually. Give the strike some utility.