Holy Pally HP Before and After Hotfix

[criminalmind]

I disagree with you, so I'm a troll. Great logic.

Healing is no longer fun because you can't spam Holy Light on your beaconed target, then hit LoD and heal the group for a retarded amount? I agree, paladins can no longer function in their current state.

Dude, go away. You have no idea what you are talking about.

[Pbstryker]

I don't play a Holy Paladin, so excuse the ignorance of the following question:

What about the gameplay changed? As I understood the change, spamming Holy Light on the target affected by Beacon of Light no longer grants Holy Power which is used to cast your Light of Dawn (or whatever other spells HP is used for.)

Now, you're forced to use other methods to build HP correct? Wouldn't this result then in a more varied spell selection being used and not a single spell spam as was described in one of the posts above?

As I said though, maybe I'm missing something?

It changed the way we play cause now HS and CS are the only way Holy paladins can generate HP.... which is extremely stupid also when we use FoL and DL we can gain one but that is not a good even exchange a 7-8k mana cost for 1 HP... Right now What I do is Run in Crusader strike heal the tank with HS and HL and hope daybreak procs use my HP if I got 3 and then HS HS it just is a stupid annoying change

[Rathimis]

... healing has NEVER been really... fun, and Blizzard finally had something with holy paladins.

If the devs could have added a stacking mana cost to Light of Dawn per holy power charge it would retain gameplay and solve the mana imbalance.
That and give WoG a 10% buff while nerfing LoD by 20%.

With the hotfix, holy power is no longer fun. building a resourve to do a bunch of weak stuff is no fun, and defnitely not exciting. if LoD crits on all targets it does about as much healing as a Divine Light... and thats if all members are in a frontal cone in 30 yards in front of you.

I really hope that the devs in this expansion start to look into what makes gameplay actually fun rather than just hotfixing numbers, yes its easy, but in cases like this it actually completely changed gameplay from fun to having to build a resource that doesnt allow you to do anything exciting.

That's my rant, gogo trolls

Totally agree. For me its that the 3 Hopo WoG/LoD seem so weak now vs the rest of our spells since the build up is slower now. Fun thing about ret is building up to 3hp and BAM you get a big Attack.

I was thinking exactly the same thing with WoG/LoD. They should have made WoG a little stronger and made LoD a little weaker, ur %s were the same as I was thinking.

I'd also like to see Holy Power abilities have a crit modifer of x2 instead of the x1.5 that normal spells have. This would be subject to RNG, which they love to give us. It would make crit, and to a lesser extent mastery, look a little more attractive - as of now both crit/mastery are pretty weak. It would also have a nice interplay with Last Word, which is a pretty weak talent as it is.

I think they could do something with divine favor as well. They could give us a taste of the quick holy power generation... Gaining 1 Holy Power each time you cast a spell during Divine Favor... or I think we would all be happy if - Every time you successfully cast Holy Light, you gain 1 Holy Power. If we got a HoPo every time we cast Holy Light during DF, we could use it use it for more burst or when we are almost out of mana it would allow us to eek out some last ditch healing. For me, the +crit/haste from the current DF is pretty weak.

I also wonder if the nerfs we got to HS/HL can be reverted now, as they were too strong along with the quick Holy Power generation they had. Now, not so much anymore. Both HL/HS coefficient scaling are pretty poor as well, which bothers me.

[Vellin]

They nerfed us because they didn't intend the paladin playstyle to be how it was pre-nerf. Keep in mind that we're only two weeks into cataclysm, and things are subject to change. I liked the Paladin playstyle pre-nerf, it was fun. I'll agree that not making HP being generated from HL was not the right way to go, and I wish they did something else. I think Blizzard needs to reverse the nerf, and address it in a different way. If the efficiency is too high, then nerf the efficiency, but don't balance holy around HP then nerf it, that's just a silly mistake on Blizzard's part. I think Blizzard will eventually reverse it and introduce higher mana costs for HS and HL, or something along those lines.

[Firecrest]

And this is where it turns into QQ for me. You don't think healing is fun? Don't play a healer. There are various mechanics that making healing different for each spec, and interesting, other than "bigger numbers". Serendipity, Chakra, Atonement, Archangel, Tidal Waves, Protector of the Innocent, Beacon of Light, Infusion of Light, Daybreak, to name a few. I'm not sure what else you expect blizzard to do? You are complaining that holy paladin healing was boring before holy power, but yet you still played a holy paladin.. if you have every other class at 80, go pick one of them and level.

Most people would like to disagree, and if you don't feel that it's interesting, go to a new spec.

So.. one of your AoE heals (Holy Radiance, how are you!) is now at the same point, as others. Sorry.

Once again, if you hate healing, don't heal. I'm not seeing anything in this thread expect QQ my gameplay isn't interesting, well, if it's not interesting... go make it interesting, or quit.

“If you don’t like what Blizzard is doing, go away” is hands down, bar none, without exception the stupidest repeated argument on these boards. If there was any one sentiment that I could ban from these forums, this would be it.

There are so many reasons why this is stupid, that it just boggles the mind that anyone would try to put it forth as an actual argument. Let’s look at a few.

First off, even Blizzard, who I have to assume you’re trying to defend, doesn’t agree with you. They’ve said time and time and time again that constructive criticism is always welcomed. If it’s well written, well meaning and facilitates logical discussion, they are all for it. If everyone took your attitude and never gave any feedback to Blizz, this game would be gut wrenchingly horrible.

Second, just because someone does not like one aspect of something, does not mean that they are sour to the entirety of it. Is it so improbable to you that the OP could dislike the changes made to Pally healing but still like healing on his Pally? Is it ridiculous to think that someone could dislike a portion of something but still enjoy the whole?

Further, what kind of defeatist meekling are you that when someone hands you something you don’t like, you just shrug and go “Oh well, thanks”? If someone makes a change for the worse to something that I enjoy, I’m sure as hell going to let them know I think their idea was bad. And I expect rational human beings to do the same.

The OP identified something he didn’t like, explained why he thought it was not good and suggested changes the he believes solves the problem without his perceived negative impact. Now, disagree with him all you want. But do it by countering with you own logical argument and not this “Eat what you’re served or GTFO” bullshit.

[armpit]

Holy Power was a good idea on paper. Didn't turn out so well in the game. But as they have so much invested in the design of it now, they won't fix it.

It is NOT fun.

[Koen]

In my opinion it's no less fun than it was before. Doing whatever you could to get those 3 HP quickly just to cast a LoD at the right time is no more fun than it is now. You are doing the same and same and same and same over again. Perhaps it's a difficult thing to do for some people here but I found it rather boring. The decision that you've to make to use a Cheap slow heal, fast above average heal or big slow heal is way more interesting.

[Firecrest]

I guess I should throw in some on topic-ness.

I see the problem Blizzard was trying to address, but I think they fumbled the solution. The problem we have now is that our two ways of generating Holy Power are counterproductive (that they would institute a reward for healing your Beacon blows my mind) and otherwise next to useless (HS is to weak for me to want to use it for any other purpouse besides Holy Power generation).

Along with the nerf should have come a significant buff to HS. Let's face it, you're not HSing for the heal. You're HSing for the Holy Power. They might as well completely do away with the heal altogether for all the good it's doing.

Our "Big Heal" is too small too. It's absurd that I have to cast 8 heals to bring my tank from 20% to full. I guess that doesn't really have anything to do with anything here, but I'm in a mood so there it is.

[thewallofsleep]

Moxjet, KeirAdish, and Firecrest have said. A nerf was required, but the way they went about it wasn't right. That's what it boils down to. I wish I could post some of their points on official forums right now, but I'm at work and don't have my authenticator, which means I can't log in.


Moreso than that, I want to know:
Does anyone know why KeirAdish got banned from mmo-c forums? Is there a thread where they were violating some rules? It can't be because of something he/she said here in this thread, as they said nothing offensive and were contributing to the topic very nicely.

[Obsession]

A lot of good points in this thread. In the long run, as tank healers, we will be fine. The problem is, we are supposed to be as good as every other healer for raid healing. This is no longer the case, not even close.

Currently, it costs 14,519 mana at the minimum to heal 6 random targets for ~6k, taking 4 GCDs and probably wasting quite a bit of healing on the beacon target. Priests prayer of healing costs 5,353 mana to heal 5 targets for the same amount, and is able to be used 2-3 times in the time it takes for one light of dawn cast. Holy power is now fundamentally broken, and unless they revert the Tower of Radiance change will stay that way.

Now I have to ask the question, are paladins doomed to permanently tank healing because of Beacon?

[Arkanuerus]

Moreso than that, I want to know:
Does anyone know why KeirAdish got banned from mmo-c forums? Is there a thread where they were violating some rules? It can't be because of something he/she said here in this thread, as they said nothing offensive and were contributing to the topic very nicely.

Hes my brother so I'll go ahead and answer this...

there were three "incidents"
the first being in one topic about the paladin nerf someone started attacking his every post not putting anything constructive forth themselves, he said the word stupid in regard to them, and got a warning and all his posts in the topic deleted. (the other persons posts were left for the world to see)

The other person then reported Keir for his signature being a few pixels too big, Keir made an effort to fix this as soon as he saw it was in violation, then he proceeded to get a warning cause he didn't realize by "pixel size" it meant the mods will destroy you for your text exceeding a pixel limit. (Which I find really rather stupid)

He then proceeded to post in this topic (above his remaining post)
a quote of the original post agreeing with it completely and then at the bottom he put in,
"yay Syrrah is our first troll for this topic"
which isn't a wrong assumption seeing as absolutely NOTHING in that persons post was helpful to the subject just all seemed like he was bashing anyone that agreed with the OP.
Keir then got banned for this post, official reason is "minor spam" and that his post was completely off topic etc and that calling anyone a troll is means for a ban. (which having read Syrrah's post is really rather retarded seeing as she was trolling... and he doesn't care about post counts on forums like these.)

My final assessment is that he has pissed off a mod by disagreeing and actually voicing his disagreement and is now being targeted. (not sure for sure since most of his posts got deleted so don't quote me on that.)

now too keep me from getting banned for "upping my post count"

The simple way to fix this issue would be to put HL giving a 50% chance to grant holy power, and move LoD to a CD and mana again, with the paladins mana regen problems its already pointless to go making every spell cost extreme amounts of mana that will just make healing impossible...
and WoG seriously needs a buff with how hard it is to get right now...

Edit:
mind you he's not complaining that "he needz buffz now pl0x or he will quit"
He and I have been running pugs and he's managing he rarely even uses WoG or LoD cause he doesn't focus on getting holy power because if it comes to it, 1 FoL = 1 WoG and much easier to get, so he rarely ever uses the HP unless he realizes he has it before it disappears...
he just spams HL, HS, HR, mostly because those spells are what keep the team alive right now...
mind you for Holy Radiance to even be worth it you NEED to have ALL your casters stack on the healer!!!

[Kstud]

The problem we have now is that our two ways of generating Holy Power are counterproductive (that they would institute a reward for healing your Beacon blows my mind)

this is the only part i disagree with. granted, I haven't done a raid yet, so I don't know how things work in a raid environment. There are times when healing a group member is just pointless, b/c the group is topped off or near topped off, and you want the full divine light to heal the beacon target, not just 50% of it. this indirectly gives you some of your mana back that would have been spent healing a group member for no reason + the beacon target for 50% of the heal.

I'm not saying they did the nerf right. I'm just saying holy power from healing the beacon target makes sense to me.

/shrug

[Kivimetsan]

Post this on official forums if you want Holy Pally to be fixed.

[LuckyBucky]

Well here's something no ones gonna like. Holy Pallys will be nerfed again. No way around it. Still way to strong when used certain ways. Just me and the tank took on Forgemaster Throngus in heroic for an eternity, and I ended the fight with over 80% of my mana. Pallys will adapt to this new way and figure out holy power is still a broken op mechanic...expect another nerf of holy power costing mana soon.

[Cryoh]

Well here's something no ones gonna like. Holy Pallys will be nerfed again. No way around it. Still way to strong when used certain ways. Just me and the tank took on Forgemaster Throngus in heroic for an eternity, and I ended the fight with over 80% of my mana. Pallys will adapt to this new way and figure out holy power is still a broken op mechanic...expect another nerf of holy power costing mana soon.

So, what are these certain ways? No reason to be all cryptic.

[fierceangel]

If Blizzard want us to adapt to the new style of healing, they need to stop removing things that completely mess up what we have adapted to. I don't agree with the recent change, I think it's backwards, but ofc I'm gonna adapt to this new style to just have it broken again.

What doesnt make sense is nerfing the amount of times we can cast Light of Dawn (assuming no Daybreak procs, and only gaining HP from Holy Shock, that gives LoD at its full power an 18 sec cooldown), but also nerfing the amount it heals for. They should of chose one over the other not both together. And considering that the heal is entirely situational based on positioning, it's not really fair to balance it based on other classes AoE heals that are much more efficient in a raid enviroment.

They need to also remove the dimishing effect on ALL aoe heals, its incredibly frustrating in fights that require the raid to spread out that it's ticking for such a small amount.

Personally I'd rather they remove the Tower of Radiance talent, or maybe change it to something that buffs Holy Radiance's heal making it a 2/2, and put the extra point into Daybreak for a 30% chance to proc.

[iLive]

When you gotten used to the luxery of something, it's hard to go back.